Taking a Stance

[jive1]

When someone says, "pro" to me, I generally make the assumption that they have the skills that fit my archetype of a professional musician. That is, they have a certain threshold of chops and musicianship, good sound/tone, a general ability of musical knowledge (i.e., they don't have to be a Berklee professor, but they should be able to transpose songs and understand chord structures, etc.), etc. I definitely can make the equation of a "pro" being someone who plays music, but also works as a software engineer during the week.

Though I see where you're coming with the term "pro" being used. Remember the Osbourne's show? There was this "pro" skateboard who used to hang around Ozzy and Sharon's place; the guy was a huge loser, and when he was featured in an episode, the focus was usually on how he was sponging off of the Obsbournes.

Really, this discussion would probably make a decent discussion on its own.

To me all it takes to be a "pro" is to get paid doing what the are doing.

Professionalism and talent don't always go hand in hand.

 

[bassmonkeee]

"Professional" is not the word that comes to mind when I read these threads.

 

[bluewine]

So..basically you did lie? Ok gotcha.



Yes I lied, interesting nobody in the world has ever lied before,I am the only one.

I am a bass player, I no nothing about starting a band.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

I am a bass player, I no nothing about starting a band.

I think this is the first silly thing I have read on this thread.

(1) You have been in a band before.
(2) You have experience with auditions (no sarcasm here) so you know how you would want to handle them yourself.
(3) You clearly know what you want from a band.

Place an add, look for players and a place to rehearse and set a goal for your band:

- what genre
- covers or originals or both
- X rehearsals per month
- X desired gigs per month
- X rehearsals before the first gig

But you will need to step up and be the band leader, and maintain that position.

 

[QORC]

I auditioned for a start up band last week, decent guys, everyone was adequate. The idea of doing covers with a heavy rock twist was good. I would say I was still interested in the opportunity after the 3 song audition.

They were to bring in another bass player to try out this week Wednesday and would let me know where I stood this Thursday.

Yesterday I received and e-mail stating the other bass player couldn’t make it and they rescheduled him for next week.

I wrote back and told them I liked them and was still interested, however, they would have to give me a yes or no now because I had another offer from a band.

My Reasoning

The reason I gave them an ultimatum, I told them I was a pro-level bass player. If this was an established band with shows lined up I would have never put the screws to them. Since I was only marginally interested and it’s a start up, I am not going to sit around for a week waiting for a decision on a marginal opportunity.

Have I missed out on something, maybe? I have no regrets on how I handled this.

What do you think.

sorry I'm getting into this thread late. My take? tactical mistake. Comes across as arrogant. Gave them an ultimatum. I'm a "pro" and you guys are merely a "start-up band." I have "another offer"

if I were the band, I would write you off. A million red flags there. You're not Stu or Jaco. there are lots of bass players in the world and most bands want someone who not only is talented, but has a good attitude. Fits in.

what I would've done if I were you? Said nothing and made up my mind if I wanted the second band or not. If I did, then when the first band came back to me with an 'offer', I would've said "sorry. Joined someone else."

As it turns out, they never got back to you anyway. So you didn't blow THEM away and they were keeping THEIR options open and stringing you along a bit. That's cool. Or maybe your email turned them off and they wrote you off and decided to not use you, no matter what. Consider that.

keep your options open as long as possible! and don't burn bridges if at all possible! By all means, lose the attitude. It won't win you points with other musicians. Stand up for yourself and don't let anyone disrespect you and your instrument, but don't come across with this "I'm all that!" attitude. It's not good.

 

[bluewine]

I think this is the first silly thing I have read on this thread.

(1) You have been in a band before.
(2) You have experience with auditions (no sarcasm here) so you know how you would want to handle them yourself.
(3) You clearly know what you want from a band.

Place an add, look for players and a place to rehearse and set a goal for your band:

- what genre
- covers or originals or both
- X rehearsals per month
- X desired gigs per month
- X rehearsals before the first gig

But you will need to step up and be the band leader, and maintain that position.

Can't argue with this one.

It will take a lot of thought, one obstacle.Growing up in the 60s & 70s, where all my influences come from.Most everything I love is no longer marketable.I have discussed this with seasoned musicians in my age group

For example I had Jeff Beck's & Rod Stewart's "Truth" an Beck-Ola CD on in my car. My younger GF politley asked me to turn it off becase it sounds old and dated to her.

 

[Bassdirty]

Personally, I think its only fair for them to audition several bass players before they make a decision. I'd say you should have given them a week. My $0.02.

I agree...and with others...you need time to find the right person...then when you find one or two, that you like, you have them come back again.

Ive (almost) never hired anyone on the spot.


And if someone said "you need to decide right now...cuz I'm not waiting (however long) to find out"...I would make the decision right there.The decision of NO, you're not hired.




.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Can't argue with this one.

It will take a lot of thought, one obstacle.Growing up in the 60s & 70s, where all by influences come from.Most everything i love is no longer marketable.I have discussed this with seasoned musicians in my age group.

For example I had Jeff Beck's & Rod Stewart's "Truth" an Beck-Ola CD on in my car. My younger GF politley asked me to turn it off becase it sounds old and dated to her.

That is what I mean by setting goals for your band. One goal could be:

"I want to find likeminded musicians and play songs in the genre of Jeff Beck / Rod Steward. I aim to play 12 shows a year since this is not marketable music."

Another goal would be:

"I want to play Lady Gaga and other contemporary pop tunes and play 12 shows a month."

Either way there is always a chance that you end up playing more shows with the Beck/Steward Soundalikes than with the Radio Gaga Band. Just because your girlfriend does not like it, does not mean that no one will. There are tribute acts for the weirest types of bands, so why would your band be any less succesful? But you will have to work for it.

[edit] And yes, the recording on several older (and even recent) cd's will sound outdated. Does not mean that you cant try a fresh take on the old stuff. My band plays '50s rock'n'roll but we do not have that typical '50s sound. Unfortunately we sound more like a bad Ramones Go '50s imitation but that's a different story

 

[invader3k]

I guess my take is that when you make a demand like that, don't be surprised when you get a negative response. To be honest, it sounds like the OP didn't even really want to be in the band in question to begin with...

 

[aborgman]

Lying is sort of relative.

Only when you're trying to rationalize your lying.

 

[jive1]

Can't argue with this one.

It will take a lot of thought, one obstacle.Growing up in the 60s & 70s, where all by influences come from.Most everything i love is no longer marketable.I have discussed this with seasoned musicians in my age group.

For example I had Jeff Beck's & Rod Stewart's "Truth" an Beck-Ola CD on in my car. My younger GF politley asked me to turn it off becase it sounds old and dated to her.

Blue, do you want to make excuses or make music?

Instead of finding excuses for why you can't, find reasons why you you can.

You have 40 years of experience, put it to use.

 

[bluewine]

I agree...and with others...you need time to find the right person...then when you find one or two, that you like, you have them come back again.

Ive (almost) never hired anyone on the spot.


And if someone said "you need to decide right now...cuz I'm not waiting (however long) to find out"...I would make the decision right there.The decision of NO, you're not hired.




.

Thats what they did and I am cool with it. I will not be auditioning or wasting my time with start ups in the future.It's not my thing.

 

[Stingray5]

Blue, do you want to make excuses or make music?

Instead of finding excuses for why you can't, find reasons why you you can.

You have 40 years of experience, put it to use.

 

[MatticusMania]

I guess I am the first person in the world to lie.

Geez, it was a BS start up band that I should have never wasted my time with.

I am very open minded, but you have no idea how I feel about some of these red necks I have auditioned for.

I am getting smarter though,I can tell from the adresses now and they usually have no web- presence.

I am done being open to all people.Red Necks are officially on my "Don't Bother With" list.

Of course youre not the first person to tell a lie. I can get over that. However, you seem to be wearing your frustration on your sleeve a bit, and its unbecoming of you blue. I dont think youre a bad person, keep at it and you'll find what youre looking for, these things take time. But, a few comments... I would avoid using such vivid language when commenting about these other bands. More than once Ive seen you refer to them as "rednecks", which while some may wear the tag with pride, is still an insult. Also, addressing them as a "BS startup band" is far from a positive, go getum, attitude that one should maintain while in the process of trying to find a band.

 

[MegaSwing]

I auditioned for a start up band last week, decent guys, everyone was adequate. The idea of doing covers with a heavy rock twist was good. I would say I was still interested in the opportunity after the 3 song audition.

They were to bring in another bass player to try out this week Wednesday and would let me know where I stood this Thursday.

Yesterday I received and e-mail stating the other bass player couldn’t make it and they rescheduled him for next week.

I wrote back and told them I liked them and was still interested, however, they would have to give me a yes or no now because I had another offer from a band.

My Reasoning

The reason I gave them an ultimatum, I told them I was a pro-level bass player. If this was an established band with shows lined up I would have never put the screws to them. Since I was only marginally interested and it’s a start up, I am not going to sit around for a week waiting for a decision on a marginal opportunity.

Have I missed out on something, maybe? I have no regrets on how I handled this.

What do you think.

Pursue all opportunities available to you. If you can make time for these guys you auditioned for down the road, great. If not, what else in the world should they have expected? At this point, what they're offering (or NOT offering) barely qualifies as an opportunity. No hard feelings, but life must go on.

 

[MatticusMania]

I am a bass player, I no nothing about starting a band.

Maybe you'd have better luck putting something together yourself, that way you have control over the people you allow into your band.

Im a bass player, and Ive started 3 long lasting bands over the course of the last 8 years, as well as joined a few projects on the side at the same time. Im sure part of the reason they lasted as long as they did was that I was able to function with the specific musicians I chose to play with. Just some food for thought...

 

[MegaSwing]

^^
As a bass player I feel uniquely well-positioned to start a band. I'm usually the missing link in any band I've ever been in.

 

[MatticusMania]

Can't argue with this one.

It will take a lot of thought, one obstacle.Growing up in the 60s & 70s, where all by influences come from.Most everything i love is no longer marketable.I have discussed this with seasoned musicians in my age group.

For example I had Jeff Beck's & Rod Stewart's "Truth" an Beck-Ola CD on in my car. My younger GF politley asked me to turn it off becase it sounds old and dated to her.

I'd say Stewart was the problem there, but then I just remembered my 28 year old fiancee actually likes Rod Stewart, so it must be your girlfriends tastes. Might I ask blue, is this the same younger girl who was singing for your previous band?

 

[jive1]

But, a few comments... I would avoid using such vivid language when commenting about these other bands. More than once Ive seen you refer to them as "rednecks", which while some may wear the tag with pride, is still an insult. Also, addressing them as a "BS startup band" is far from a positive, go getum, attitude that one should maintain while in the process of trying to find a band.

+1

If you replace "rednecks" with the N word or "BS Startup band" with "Old Guys", this thread would be closed by now.

 

[jive1]

Blue, my piece of advice is not to write people off too quickly, burn bridges, or take things too personally.

What the seasoned guys do around here is know a good core of musicians that they work with regularly. For example, I know about a dozen guys that I have worked with in the past and like working with that I will call before I ever place an ad in Craigslist or go looking for a band. It doesn't mean that I don't place ads, because not everyone is available or into whatever crazy idea I have going at the moment. But these guys are usually my first call, and are guys who have been in bands that I have been fired from, bands that failed, auditions that failed, as well as from playing on good gigs together and seeing each other around town. The only reason why I ever got back into playing guitar in public was because of this network, not because of my talent. Just about everyone on the scene around here is better than me.

One of my best friends in the world was from answering an ad for a startup band, and we didn't have a working band together until about 2-3 years after we first met. I still talk to him to this day, and I drove to do a gig with him in Ohio a couple years ago, which was many years after our last gig together.

I would say tap into your network, and if you don't have one start building one.