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"Talent" and "being born with it"

The whole concept of being talented and someone telling me that I am talented is lowkey insulting because it implies that I havent worked hard for my ability to play, which I have.
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Some people don't handle compliments well. Probably a lot of people......I developed the habit of just saying "Thank you." It eliminated a lot of awkwardness for me.
:thumbsup:

Do you share similar views on this? Or do you believe something else?
it's not a "belief" ---- it's an observation (common and scientific) of aptitude.
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"Talent" can be seen as a lay term for aptitude, albeit fuzzily used

here's a gem, IME/IMO:
It’s probably better for our mental health to think anyone can become proficient at something with enough hard work....
:thumbsup:


I don’t see anything particularly noble or admirable in hard work purely for hard work’s sake.
how about 'it builds character'? :D
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My older daughter practices. She's not a natural. But she does reps of every fundamental volleyball move. She crushes her competition. She'll likely play in high school.

aptitude can be measured up to a point while achievement is more easily measured, but if "talent" and "hard work" fail us = we can always have "hope!" :laugh:

back to the OP: i think you were unnecessarily self-conscious at the apparent clumsiness of someone else's admiration. maybe you lack aptitude for "social awareness" --- might be something "to work on!" good luck! :thumbsup:
 
People have natural aptitudes for things and natural disinclinations for some things.

IMO a lot of times what people mean when they say they "wish they were that talented" is they'd love to be able to do something without putting in any effort.
Examples:
I'd LOVE to be "talented" enough to be able to sit down at a random piano and play moonlight sonata, but I haven't made any attempt to practice playing piano and haven't put in any work, nor do I wish to. I just want to be able to do that already.

I wish I were "talented" enough to program a million dollar video game by myself within a weekend. But I don't wish to put in even the first effort to learn to write a hello world app.

I wish I were "talented" enough to spontaneously fight like Bruce Lee, but I dont ever work out and I can't do 1 pushup, nor would I want to.
 
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People have natural aptitudes for things and natural disinclinations for some things.

IMO a lot of times what people mean when they say they "wish they were that talented" is they'd love to be able to do something without putting in any effort.
Examples:
I'd LOVE to be "talented" enough to be able to sit down at a random piano and play moonlight sonata, but I haven't made any attempt to practice playing piano and haven't put in any work, nor do I wish to. I just want to be able to do that already.

I wish I were "talented" enough to program a million dollar video game by myself within a weekend. But I don't wish to put in even the first effort to learn to write a hello world app.

I wish I were "talented" enough to spontaneously fight like Bruce Lee, but I dont ever work out and I can't do 1 pushup, nor would I want to.

All 3 movements of Moonlight Sonata?
 
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So here is something I have been thinking about.

I got talking to one guy some weeks ago about instruments and I have mentioned that I play the bass.

His response was something akin to 'i wish I was that talented'.

Being talented...

I don't think having talent is a thing. I think with practice, repetition, studying and playing you can be as skilled at music and playing and instrument as anyone else.

I was watching an interview with Jaco Pastorius and he said that he was born with "it", and you know, maybe he was... But then he said he spent hours upon hours just practicing and playing and studying.

I personally do not believe in talent, it's just work. I would say that I do not have any ability that I have had when I was born, instead I practice and put the hours in and eventually i get better.

The whole concept of being talented and someone telling me that I am talented is lowkey insulting because it implies that I havent worked hard for my ability to play, which I have.

Do you share similar views on this? Or do you believe something else?

Thanks!
I think you have to have some sort of inclination for music, like a good ear, rhthym or dexterity! plus the opportunity to whatever instrument or exposure to it! I always believe if I had been exposed to music early in life, or given the opportunity I think I wouldve flourished!
I used to tell my old boss,when he remarked how effortless Kobe looked when Playing B Ball.
"You dont see him shooting 10,000 free throws & lay ups! Ithink same with playing music! I had to learned a very difficult Song, it was taxing my stamina,brain & dexterity, it was a fairly fast tempo, so you had to figure out your coordination or economize your movements too( right hand aerobics)! It took hours of repeatedly going over & over! After shedding 3 days, I finally got it straight,then at the next rehearsal, the drummer had concerns over if I could perform up to his last bass player(a local monster)! We were auditioning Drummer as he was us! I t was kind of a Mutual try out. we met & agreed on a couple of songs to play at said "Tryout",both drummer & guitarist remarked "Boy, you got that down!" much to my relief! I even surprised Myself! my Guitarist friend said, man you made it look easy! because he struggled with his parts! I told him It took me 2 days just get the timing down & 1 day to get it under my fingers! The drummer said "Its1 of those songs you gotta play 10,000 times! so I wont say im Born with it. Id say if I have the time I can get it or figure it out!
Funny, we gelled but, other opportunites came up & we kinda just disolved! All that Blood, sweat & blisters were for not! But ive heard countless times of how our Heros/ musical phenoms have put in the work( shed) to get "it".
My bestfriend In High School used to get Grounded often! He'd always take that time to improve! after each grounding he'd come out a far superior player! he was a guitar player and just about learned every guitar heros catalog! He was a Randy Rhoads clone! he wasnt "Born with it" but it got grounded into him! so i totally believe with the proper motivation & time you can do anything!!
 
Very interesting discussion. Musical aptitude is indeed an important component in "being talented". I think there is aptitude involved in learning/practicing as well. Most people (myself included) cannot practice with intent and focus for hours at a time. Some can. When people have musical aptitude, the ability to focus their energy on practicing for long hours, and access to good instruction/mentoring they become beasts way quicker than people like me become competent.
 
Talent is something people accuse someone else of having because they cant fathom that someone would put in the effort as they themselves would not be willing to do for whatever reason that they don't.

Talent is a term that I think should be defined as a measure of the passion which someone has for an activity in relation to others around them. No matter what age it strikes or what abilities they may possess at any time.

Talent as a word is a lazy compliment in place of actually saying something meaningful like someone is good or "I liked it because you moved my soul and embodied my emotions in the sounds that you created."

Talent is a word that is often used to displace ones own control of ones destiny in to the hands of something magical therefore acutely protecting the fragile self worth of those who don't have so called talent.

Not a fan of the term, talent.
 
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This…

Once read this about running, but feel like it applies to music…

Book I was reading one time (Daniel’s Running Formula maybe???) had a section talking about talent…

He went on to say there were three kinds of athletes:

Group 1) Naturally gifted (good genetics/right height/etc), but this group is naturally talented even though they don’t do anything with it-Think of someone who had the potential to run a sub 2:30 marathon (or better), but had no interest in training (i.e. practicing) so they never fully develop their potential…

Group 2) Runners and athletes w almost no talent for their sport but are super disciplined and train their @$$ off…I feel like this was me…I didn’t have the genetics to be a good marathon runner aside from being strong, but I still trained 6x a week for (literally) a few hours a day…I never did qualify to run the Boston Marathon and will never be an Olympic athlete…It didn’t matter how much I practiced/trained-I’m not an ectomorph and even when I was at my thinnest and basically trying to eat as little as possible to keep my weight off…I’m just not built like a an ideal marathon runner…

Group 3) Athletes in this category the author described as world class athletes bc they were both group 1 and group 2…They were naturally talented but were also willing to train like crazy and make all the sacrifices of group 2 so it was a combination of genetics from group 1 and willpower from group 2 that made them elite athletes…

I would suspect that musical talent is somewhat be similar…You may have innate natural talent, but you have to practice to pull it out of there…

Just my .02…

Thanks! \m/

I have a friend / acquaintance / pseudo-coach I always think about in these conversations. Cyclist who holds (or held) several US records, was an alternate and on a Pro-Tour team (but didn't get to ride in France), and an olympian. He leads a perfect life. Rides to work. Does all his required stretching / intervals. Outworks everyone (smartly) and does all the perfect recovery. Has killer equipment and spends top dollar for quality. NEVER eats a thoughtless calorie or drinks a thoughtless mL of alcohol.

It is as if he hit 5 of the 6 genetic lotto numbers, but missed the powerball.

I'll never BQ myself. I don't train like guy above, but I do the work, and am exactly at my ideal Matt Fitzgerald racing weight. My PR is still 20 min away, and it may as well be an hour.
 
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all the talent in the world couldnt buy a hit single
& it doesnt matter if your born with it if you dont put in the work...

my skills are a matter of time+perserverence
generally if i learn somethime 100times i might remember it
 
So here is something I have been thinking about.

I got talking to one guy some weeks ago about instruments and I have mentioned that I play the bass.

His response was something akin to 'i wish I was that talented'.

Being talented...

I don't think having talent is a thing. I think with practice, repetition, studying and playing you can be as skilled at music and playing and instrument as anyone else.

I was watching an interview with Jaco Pastorius and he said that he was born with "it", and you know, maybe he was... But then he said he spent hours upon hours just practicing and playing and studying.

I personally do not believe in talent, it's just work. I would say that I do not have any ability that I have had when I was born, instead I practice and put the hours in and eventually i get better.

The whole concept of being talented and someone telling me that I am talented is lowkey insulting because it implies that I havent worked hard for my ability to play, which I have.

Do you share similar views on this? Or do you believe something else?

Thanks!
I have thought about this and I 100% agree with you. The more work, practice, repetition I put in, the more “talent” I seem to possess.
 
I like the sports analogies. Here's a couple more:

Usain Bolt. I have no doubt that he trained very hard throughout his record-breaking career. But there's no way - NO WAY - he runs those times without a shipload of natural ability, i.e., talent. You're not gonna take some 5'4" guy with a stocky build and no natural speed and turn him into Usain Bolt, no matter how hard he works, or no matter how much time and money you put into his training, diet, equipment, facilities, etc. I'm sure they knew Bolt was special by the time he was 12 or younger.

Larry Bird. Of course, he's 6'10", which certainly helps in basketball. But he's not the fastest, or the quickest, or the strongest, or the highest jumper. Some people say Bird outworked the competition to become one of the greatest. As with Bolt, I have no doubt that Bird trained very hard throughout his stellar career. But how do we know he wasn't born with extraordinary hand-eye coordination? As much as impressive quickness, speed, strength, and leaping ability are helpful to becoming a great basketball player, so is impressive hand-eye coordination. It's something you can work on, but if you already have it, then you have an advantage, because if you build on what you already possess naturally, you will remain better than the guy who wasn't born with it, no matter how hard he works.
 
Okay...one more sports analogy for y'all, but I think it's a better one:

Rudy Ruettiger (the subject of the movie" Rudy"). From Wikipedia:
"After tremendous hard work, Ruettiger earned a place on the Notre Dame scout team, a squad that helps the varsity team practice for games. Merv Johnson was the coach who was instrumental in keeping Rudy on as a scout-team player.[6]

After the 1974 season, Notre Dame coach Parseghian stepped down and former Green Bay Packers coach Dan Devine was named head coach. In Ruettiger's last opportunity to play for Notre Dame at home, Devine put him into a game as defensive end against Georgia Tech on November 8, 1975. In the movie Rudy, Devine is given a somewhat antagonistic role, not wanting Ruettiger to dress for his last game. In the real life scenario, however, it was Devine who came up with the idea to dress Ruettiger. In the final play of Ruettiger's senior season with the Fighting Irish, he recorded a sack,[7] which is all his Notre Dame stat line has shown. Ruettiger actually played for three plays: a kickoff, an incomplete pass, and on the third play (the game's final play), he sacked Georgia Tech quarterback [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]."


So Rudy needed "tremendous hard work" just to make the ND scout team, then barely play for the varsity team. That same hard work coming from a player with a ton of talent would produce a first-team All-American.
 
You said "No inherent talent" person who's name probably means stone mason... very 'Umble

I know that lead trumpeters with longevity are born with the capacity. Eighty percent of normal people don't have the Quirk. (or the mind set) It might have to do with the lactic acid handling capacity that elite athletes are known to have, measurable genetically.
Hi BassBrass - Not sure I understand your comment but what I meant was no inherent musical talent . As for stone work though I did have some native ability for sure . I specialized in hand laid dry ( I.e. no cement ) retaining walls of large quarried stones of irregular shapes called rip rap . It takes a fair amount of skill to do that well enough to make a long lasting , good looking wall . My point was not to brag but to show that people can have inherent skills in various areas . .... Kelly
 
There is 'natural talent' in playing an instrument. ... I've met too many musicians that have musical talent but not the skill need to be gifted on an instrument. ... I've met musicians who struggle long after they've put in their 10,000 hours. ... I think they chose the wrong instrument? ... Not many musicians pull off the skill of playing and instrument and become one with that instrument. ...
 
So here is something I have been thinking about.

I got talking to one guy some weeks ago about instruments and I have mentioned that I play the bass.

His response was something akin to 'i wish I was that talented'.

Being talented...

I don't think having talent is a thing. I think with practice, repetition, studying and playing you can be as skilled at music and playing and instrument as anyone else.

I was watching an interview with Jaco Pastorius and he said that he was born with "it", and you know, maybe he was... But then he said he spent hours upon hours just practicing and playing and studying.

I personally do not believe in talent, it's just work. I would say that I do not have any ability that I have had when I was born, instead I practice and put the hours in and eventually i get better.

The whole concept of being talented and someone telling me that I am talented is lowkey insulting because it implies that I havent worked hard for my ability to play, which I have.

Do you share similar views on this? Or do you believe something else?

Thanks!

As a side project I played in an African drumming you. A fourteen year-old joined. His instrument was actually DB. Anyway, within 6 months of him coming to sessions but not really doing any drumming outside the weekly meet-ups he was so far ahead of us oldies who'd been doing it for a while he moved on. That looked like something fairly innate to me.
 
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