TC Electronic RH750 ???!??

[Thombas]

...took my brand new RH750 and one of my RS210s to rehearsal last night, with drum, one electric and one acoustic guitar. I might be a bit biased since I'm new-rig-psyched, but my initial impression is that I have NEVER sat so well in a mix. It's not about "cutting through", more like just "BEING THERE" - pleasant&present. Cannot wait to gig the full rig saturday

 

[KJung]

I will have to go look at it. I used the RH750 with my AE212 last night and this afternoon, and it took a little fiddling to get it right, especially in the small indoor venue today.

The RH amps and the AE cabs work really well together. However, the AE212 is a bit differently voiced than the AE112, AE210 or AE410. It has a much larger, wider low end, and a very different crossover, eliminating the strong upper mid profile of the other cabs.

Even with the massive EQ power of the RH amps, I could never get the AE212 to sound 'right' to me with my RH450.

I put the AE212 in that general class of cabs including the HT112ER, Thunderchild112, 15/6, etc., etc. Very wide, evenly voiced, and that doesn't seem to play well with the strong voicing baked into the TC heads. IMO there.

 

[bassclef04]

Hey Ken, if not Bergantino what other brand of cabs would you pair up with TC RH amps?

 

[KJung]

Hey Ken, if not Bergantino what other brand of cabs would you pair up with TC RH amps?

I like the TC cabs the best, by far. The RH heads are quite voiced and somewhat 'unusual' sounding versus most other solid state amps. I found that cabs that complement the 'warm, tight' voicing of the RH's work best, at least to my ear.

The Bag End cabs come to mind, the TC cabs (great value IMO), possibly some of the Genz Neo's, although I've never heard that combination. IMO there.

 

[Papersen]

...took my brand new RH750 and one of my RS210s to rehearsal last night, with drum, one electric and one acoustic guitar. I might be a bit biased since I'm new-rig-psyched, but my initial impression is that I have NEVER sat so well in a mix. It's not about "cutting through", more like just "BEING THERE" - pleasant&present. Cannot wait to gig the full rig saturday

I`ll probably have the same setup. Initially I`ll be starting with a single RS210 and will surely upgrade to a second RS210 or RS212.

Please let us know your impressions after testing your full rig.

 

[bassclef04]

Sounds like the TC cabs are best for pairing up.

 

[Vic]

Hey Ken, if not Bergantino what other brand of cabs would you pair up with TC RH amps?

I know you asked Ken specifically here, but I'd like to comment as well...

I do like the TC cabs a lot with the TC heads, clearly a specifically architected match-up, but I personally would like to hear a little more crispness up top since the amp already has a smooth-ish high end to begin with.

I do agree with Ken in what he said about the AE212 as well, which is why I don't own one.

Even though I would "sorta" put it in the same tone camp as the AE212, I liked the Epifani UL(2)410 a lot... I just feel the 10's do a better job of bringing those mids out while maintaining the big low end and having plenty of crispness up top to compliment how smooth the RH head is.

Along those same lines, I also liked the GK Neo112-II cabs... nice big lows and crisp highs, but just a bit more midrange presence to my ears compared to the AE212. Plus I like how tall they stack on-end. I've actually used these cabs a lot recently.

The AE112 pair worked as well or maybe even a bit better. Not quite as big in the lows, but much stronger in the mids and a nice complimentary high end (again).

I also like the Berg 10's a lot. I have the AE210 cabs, but I would suspect almost any Berg 10 cab would work well. Just seemed to have a great voicing to me. Nice lows, strong but not over the top highs, and a really good mid presence. Nicely tight and responsive.

Sad part is, you can't really get the AE cabs anymore, but I think my comments would still also apply to Jim's other 12's and 10's, especially if he's coming out with a line specifically targeted at being a reasonable tonal substitute for the AE's.

But really, I think my general feeling is I like the TC cabs, but just wish they were a little crisper up high. Any cab with that characteristic would be popular with me.

Anyway, FWIW.

 

[bassclef04]

Thanks Ken & Vic! Vic you're the second person to recommend I try the Epifani UL2-410 with the TC amp. I have a feeling I will like this combo.

 

[Eublet]

The RS210's with the coax tweeter has a very natural, smooth top end to them. Even if you crank the tweeter, it won't get harsh like a separate horn will. IMHO, the RS cabs are very much for those folks who would like a tweeterless cab but want the ability to dial in a bit more crispness. On a cab like the AE's, the crossover really eliminates a lot of the top end coming through the drivers, so the horn is responsible for all that HF portion of the tone. Even if you dial the horn back, it sounds VERY different from a tweeterless cab without a crossover. The top end response is different. On the RS cabs, the horn is inside the top driver, and covered by a dust cap. So even when you dial up the tweeter, the high end just has a smoother sound to it. I would call it more "natural" but many folks would disagree with that term. I will say that generally speaking I believe you can better approximate the top end response of a tweeterless cab with a coax design, plus turn up the highs to get a smooth ping-like tone. They don't however tend to do that glassy zingy tone very well. This is all very general, but in the case of the RS it really is true. I love it myself.

 

[KJung]

The RS210's with the coax tweeter has a very natural, smooth top end to them. Even if you crank the tweeter, it won't get harsh like a separate horn will. IMHO, the RS cabs are very much for those folks who would like a tweeterless cab but want the ability to dial in a bit more crispness. On a cab like the AE's, the crossover really eliminates a lot of the top end coming through the drivers, so the horn is responsible for all that HF portion of the tone. Even if you dial the horn back, it sounds VERY different from a tweeterless cab without a crossover. The top end response is different. On the RS cabs, the horn is inside the top driver, and covered by a dust cap. So even when you dial up the tweeter, the high end just has a smoother sound to it. I would call it more "natural" but many folks would disagree with that term. I will say that generally speaking I believe you can better approximate the top end response of a tweeterless cab with a coax design, plus turn up the highs to get a smooth ping-like tone. They don't however tend to do that glassy zingy tone very well. This is all very general, but in the case of the RS it really is true. I love it myself.

+1 on 90% of the above.

The only addition I would make is that what you say about the AE tweeter is definitely true of the AE212, which has (from what I understand and also hear) a much different (and lower crossed over) high end/tweeter performance than the rest of the AE line. So, +1 in that the tweeter is VERY integrated into the top end of the AE212 (which many would consider a good thing, and why I include the AE212 more with the 'hi fi' (as we use that term on TB) universe of cabs that includes the HT112ER, the Thunderchild112, the Acme's, etc.).

With the other cabs in the AE line, there is screaming high end coming out of the drivers, and the impact of the tweeter is quite subtle IMO and IME. This, IMO, is why the RH heads match up so nicely with the AE210, 112 and 410, and IMO not so well with the AE212. The RH heads need a bit of 'help' in that upper midrange area, and that is hard to dial in, even with the semi-parametric upper mid control. Something about the voicing of the upper mids, versus just pure volume at those frequencies.

 

[Eublet]

Also, I had an AE212 and AE112. The 212 sounded okay with the RH450, but I didn't love it. I did enjoy the tone with my Shuttle 9.0, but it was still a bit too big down bottom, with a poor midrange character IMHO. I went from really like the AE212 to not caring for it much at all in the span of 2 or 3 months. The AE112 I never cared for because to me the mid-range character was even more anemic for my needs. It just felt and sounded cold to me. The RS cabs however have an "organic" quality to them, and I really try not to use that word, but I just don't know how else to describe it off the cuff. I'm pretty picky when it comes to cabs though.

 

[KJung]

Also, I had an AE212 and AE112. The 212 sounded okay with the RH450, but I didn't love it. I did enjoy the tone with my Shuttle 9.0, but it was still a bit too big down bottom, with a poor midrange character IMHO. I went from really like the AE212 to not caring for it much at all in the span of 2 or 3 months. The AE112 I never cared for because to me the mid-range character was even more anemic for my needs. It just felt and sounded cold to me. The RS cabs however have an "organic" quality to them, and I really try not to use that word, but I just don't know how else to describe it off the cuff. I'm pretty picky when it comes to cabs though.

One man's 'poor midrange' character is another mans 'clean and even' +1 though. The AE212 is quite different from the other AE cabs. I also agree, the AE112 is a bit of the 'worst of all worlds' to me within the AE line. Still a nice sounding cab, but it kind of sits between the AE210 and AE212, and does neither 'thing' as well to me.

I LOVE the AE212 with my F500, since it has both the EQ power and the inherent voicing to bring the most out of that cab. +1 again, couldn't get the RH450 to work at all with it, even though the RH450/AE410 is one of my favorite match-ups.

 

[Eublet]

+1 on 90% of the above.

The only addition I would make is that what you say about the AE tweeter is definitely true of the AE212, which has (from what I understand and also hear) a much different (and lower crossed over) high end/tweeter performance than the rest of the AE line. So, +1 in that the tweeter is VERY integrated into the top end of the AE212 (which many would consider a good thing, and why I include the AE212 more with the 'hi fi' (as we use that term on TB) universe of cabs that includes the HT112ER, the Thunderchild112, the Acme's, etc.).

With the other cabs in the AE line, there is screaming high end coming out of the drivers, and the impact of the tweeter is quite subtle IMO and IME.

Good points Ken, and something I didn't think about. My ultimate beef with the AE212/112 was that there wasn't as much of that paper top-end in the tone. I'm not sure if it was the crossover or the 12" drivers. If the frequency point is lower, that would explain a lot of it.

 

[KJung]

Good points Ken, and something I didn't think about. My ultimate beef with the AE212/112 was that there wasn't as much of that paper top-end in the tone. I'm not sure if it was the crossover or the 12" drivers. If the frequency point is lower, that would explain a lot of it.

+1 In talking with Jim (as others have done), my take is that he voiced the AE212 for those who preferred the voicing of the HT line, but wanted a lighter weight solution. I totally delivers on that (due to the different crossover and I assume a bit different tuning of the low end), for better or worse, and I similarly dislike the HT112ER with the RH450. Same problem... dull sounding and no amount of EQ with the RH450 made it better (IME). Something about the 'wide, even' voicing. I guess that is why many like 'real' tube heads with those tighly voiced, mid present sealed 10" cabs versus more full range ported, multiway cabs.

Edit: Sorry for the Berg OT. To sum up, the AE212, to my ear, is like a 'better, lighter HT322... big, open, crisp (although a bit more aggressive 'crisp' than the very crystal hi fi top end of the old HT line).

 

[Eublet]

One man's 'poor midrange' character is another mans 'clean and even' +1 though. The AE212 is quite different from the other AE cabs. I also agree, the AE112 is a bit of the 'worst of all worlds' to me within the AE line. Still a nice sounding cab, but it kind of sits between the AE210 and AE212, and does neither 'thing' as well to me.

I LOVE the AE212 with my F500, since it has both the EQ power and the inherent voicing to bring the most out of that cab. +1 again, couldn't get the RH450 to work at all with it, even though the RH450/AE410 is one of my favorite match-ups.

Agree with you completely. I can see why many folks would think the AE212 is the greatest cabinet ever. I even thought I might get there when I first started testing it. Great form factor, weight, and quality. There's a lot there to love I think. In fact, if I were still doing some of the music I was doing 10+ years ago, I'd probably love it myself. But with the retro bass tone becoming more popular these days, even in "modern" tunes, I just find myself gravitating more towards a tube-like tone with a tight yet round bottom, present low-mids, a slight upper-mid scoop, and a very warm top end. Think Paul Turner or Joe Osborne. It's easy to get there with an RH/RS rig. I also really love that Larry Graham slap tone more than I do the Marcus thing, at least when I'm the one who is trying to slap.

 

[Musicman20]

I must admit, I have been guilty of eyeing up higher end cabinets/boutique cabinets, and thought about selling my RS cabinets. Then I play through them, and see no reason to.

If you look after them they are great cabinets.

 

[KJung]

I must admit, I have been guilty of eyeing up higher end cabinets/boutique cabinets, and thought about selling my RS cabinets. Then I play through them, and see no reason to.

If you look after them they are great cabinets.

It is also an eye opener to listen to the TC cabs with a more 'wide, evenly voiced' head like the LMII or F1/F500. While the top end is still nice and organic and not shrill, it makes you realize that most of that perception of the TC cab voicing is driven by the RH heads (which even when the tweetertone is used to widen the top end, still have a super warm, organic top to them IMO).

I LOVE the TC RS210 with the Markbass heads.

 

[Eublet]

It is also an eye opener to listen to the TC cabs with a more 'wide, evenly voiced' head like the LMII or F1/F500. While the top end is still nice and organic and not shrill, it makes you realize that most of that perception of the TC cab voicing is driven by the RH heads (which even when the tweetertone is used to widen the top end, still have a super warm, organic top to them IMO).

I LOVE the TC RS210 with the Markbass heads.

+1 again! The RS cabs sounded good with my LMII and Shuttle 9.0. It was plenty pingy to me, but not harsh.

As a reference point for others in this thread, I've usually always run my tweeter-loaded cabs with the attenuator around 9 o'clock (Genx Neox, Eden XST/XLT's, Schroeder 115+L, GK, etc). Very little variation from cab to cab in how I ran the tweeter. With the RS cabs (210 and 212), I run the tweeter attenuator at noon pretty consistently. I suspect that, comparitively speaking, the highs in the 4-7k range are probably about the same at this setting as they are with those other cabs set a 9 o'clock. Over 7k or 8k, the RS cabs seem to have a quicker drop off on those glassy highs. This seems evident also because you can't really hear them hissing at you at louder volumes like you can in a non-coax cab when the volume is up and things are dead quiet. I'm not sure if it's the dust cap itself causing that or what, but even if you hold up a piece of paper over a bullet or compression horn at high volume, that glassy hiss is almost instantly removed completely just by a little ol' piece of paper. I kind of like that.

Just trying to think of different ways to describe what I hear for those who aren't sure what they are looking for.

 

[Thombas]

I`ll probably have the same setup. Initially I`ll be starting with a single RS210 and will surely upgrade to a second RS210 or RS212.

Please let us know your impressions after testing your full rig.

With great pleasure!

 

[bassclef04]

Great settings! I realize if you own the RH450 or 750 you really have to dig into the EQ section, this amp is not a plug and go. I have 3 great presets now and one of them thanks to Munjibunga. I'm loving my TC RH750!!!!

OK, this is playing it through an AE410 with a Fender Roscoe Beck V.

The frequencies are:

Bass: 100 hz (9 clicks left)

Low Mid: 400 hz (default - 0 clicks)

High Mid: 800 hz (default - 0 clicks)

Treble: 1,600 hz (0 clicks, but not default, which is 8 clicks right)

Level settings: All four at 3 o'clock - 6 clicks right.

Tube Tone at minimum - adjust to taste.

Compressor at 9 o'clock.

One of the things I have to get used to is that this EQ is nothing like the Eden stack, where "a little dab'll do ya." It's taking some big-ass dabs to get where I like to be, but I'm getting there.

The cab seems to make a significant difference, too. I haven't got the AE212 dialed in with it exactly where I want it to be yet.