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TC Electronics "Epic Fail"

#82
Last I heard BB was touting an old Acoustic. And not one of the 'new' heavy Acoustics.

I haven't had any of my light SMPS amps overheat on stage at 4ohms. People also need to stop assuming that because it's small and light, its class D. One of the flagship light/small heads (the Markbass LMII & III) is a class A/B. My Peavey IPR is class D and light and hasn't over heated at 4 ohms or 4ohms bridged.
 
#83
BogeyBass said:
and if you buy a switch mode class D and it overheats at 4ohms
. sorry because mine dont at 1.5ohms. and I would never as a friend let you buy a overheating 4ohm class D amp.
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The evidence that smaller amps fail more than larger, heavier ones is precisely.....zero, meaningless anecdotes notwithstanding. My M9 is a relatively heavy (by current standards) amp that has failed, but I've never had a problem with a featherweight. I like the sound of the M9 so I play it. Geddy uses Orange heads and in ears on stage, with no cabs, and whatever stadium he's rocking is filled by modern, MUCH cooler-running, lightweight amps. Too bad neither he (nor most large pro outfits) have figured out how much more reliable the heavier stuff is.
 
#84
BogeyBass said:
Yep been gigged and toured many times.

3 different labels
6 different tours

coast to coast
48 states
at least 200 cities

Son, 6lbs is the weight of the wheels on my Ampeg 810e

and I used 2 of those, yes 2
when you carry 330 pounds of cabinet.
A stupid little 30 pound solid state amp is a feather.

In my "old" age I too, needed to lighten up my rig.
So I cut the weight in half and now use 1 165pound 810E

just think my amp was working for 36.4 years before he bought his TC.
For sure it did another 6months, and then his TC broke...oh well
mine still works. it is light enough.
Has more power and its 2ohm stable in fact its 1.5ohms stable
and I have been running it on those loads for awhile.

You want to use it as a doorstop?
hah hah, thats why you dont own it son.
I do

please buy all the lightest amps you can, more vintage for me.
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Son? Um, ok "dad" - you gonna cover my son's college tuition with all those royalties? :D

No need for so much attitude. Plenty of people post "authoritative" stuff on TB which is backed up by zero experience other than playing in their basement. Glad you have the road miles. I did 140 gigs last year with my class D amps. If you get one from a company with good CS you play worry free and back pain free. I own two because Murphy is on every gig.

I don't run 2ohm loads so that is a non-issue. And I've never owned/played an 8-10 cab except in supplied backlines. No point in the gigs and music I play. As for solid state iron, I've seen plenty of that fail as well as tube amps. So while you've had great experiences with the same amp over 37 years, I've seen my share of failures. And that would go back to some very nice pre-CBS guitar amps I was using back in the 70's.

Play/own what you like. But as agedhorse pointed out, plenty of factual errors about how "crappy" class D amps are. I'll gladly leave all the vintage stuff for you. When you load in/load out yourself 100+ times a year the difference between a 6 lb head and a 30 lb head is significant. I had an Ashdown that I loved. But when really good class D stuff like Genz Benz hit the market? Sayonara. Sure, it doesn't look as cool on stage as a fridge but I think it sounds better for what I'm doing and my back thanks me. ymmv.
 
#85
agedhorse said:
Will and BogeyBass, for the sake of accuracy for those reading this thread, I feel the need to correct your posts in a couple of critical areas.

1. The "little mini amps" are indeed repairable (not saying all brands, but certainly ours)and for most part the repairs are not difficult. We repair all of our products (none are disposable) and it rarely takes more than about a half-hour to repair any amp we make.

2. The life expectancy of these products is nowhere near 3-7 years. There are many class D and SMPS products that have been used successfully for 15 years or so. For example, I have a couple dozen QSC SMPS products that are close to 15 years old, have lots of hours on them, and have had not a single failure to date. Zero.

3. The Lenard Audio website is RIDDLED with inaccurate information and errors. Glaring errors any engineer knowledgable about this technology would catch in a second.

a. ALL SMPS/class D amps today are tested to and must conform with CE standards.

b. CE doesn't stand for "communication emissions"... good grief, it stands for Conformité Européenne

c. All SMPS/class D amps today are tested and must conform with FCC part 15 when sold in the USA

d. C-tick (it's not C-tic) is not the international standard for RFI, it's the standards only for Australia & New Zealand that cover RFI and safety regulations.

e. The complexity being described in SMPS has little to do with audio SMPS as most are not regulated and his descreption is for regulated SMPS only. He is taking computer SMPS principles and applying them to an unrelated area of pro audio.

4. We support, maintain and repair ALL of our "mini amp products" and SMP products, it's simple, easy and cost effective. I know that many (again, not all) other manufacturers do the same. QSC is one example, Crown is another.... and it's all done here in the U.S.A. too!

5. Repairing SMPS products is not a big deal if you understand how they work and have the proper tools and training. Most are quite simple and straight forward if you understand them.

6. Repairing class D is also not all that difficult, but because of the generally higher component density and the value that is brought to the table by highly integrated designs, it's often less expensive to replace the module when labor is considered. It's an economic decision by the repair depot rather than a technical one (assuming they understand how they work). Replacing the entire module is not all that expensive and labor is generally trivial (assuming the tech knows what they are doing).

Please consider that lumping all manufacturers into that inaccurate information is not in the best interest of maintaining a good knowledge base on TB.
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Now, you know I don't have the skills to argue this, so I won't try.:smug:

Here's another article apart from Lenard that also mentions long term reliability...most notably this statement:

" Any SMPS can be expected to last until it's first used, and with any luck it can last for quite a few years thereafter."

Link Removed

There are a couple others I've read in .pdf (can't link to from the phone) that make similair statements. Are all these lumping amp technology in with what's used in computers?

In general nowdays, whether it's a "new-fangled" amplifier, your TV, microwave, or the touchpad on your oven, most so-called "repairs" involve trashing an entire circuit board and replacing it, if not replacing the entire unit. Many of these things are made so cheap it doesn't make sense to repair them. That's why I think of them as "designed to be garbage" in the first place. Please don't take that as any kind of personal attack or anything, more of a general thought on the culture we live in. If you guys are actually doing repairs, I think that's great, but I'd consider it more of an exception than the rule.

To be fair, this technology has been used in pro sound for quite a few years before we got these micro bass heads without reported catasrophic failures. Then again, I may be a little old-fashioned on this, but I don't think any of these micro amps have been around long enough to even know if they're reliable long term. My newest bass amp might be 15 years old, many of them 20-30. I haven't bought anything newer because these haven't failed.
 
#86
There’s some truth to the replaceable nature of the new class D amps but combined with the cost, portability and sound of them, I’m glad they exist. My Ampeg PF-350 has moved from my rehearsal head to my gigging backup head. It’s great because it fits in a laptop case (with all my extra chords) and will drive my cabs with 175w each. Costs 300 bucks. It’s all good.

My main head is a Carvin BX1200 (pre-class D) and it’s heavy but the punch-in-the-gut tone is astounding so I tolerate the weight, for now anyway.

Getting back to the TC amp nightmare; it doesn’t sound like a rule, more like an aberration to me. They’re moving a lot of these amps so if it was a rule, there would be a lot more hollering going on around here.
 
#87
BurningSkies said:
Last I heard BB was touting an old Acoustic. And not one of the 'new' heavy Acoustics.

I haven't had any of my light SMPS amps overheat on stage at 4ohms. People also need to stop assuming that because it's small and light, its class D. One of the flagship light/small heads (the Markbass LMII & III) is a class A/B. My Peavey IPR is class D and light and hasn't over heated at 4 ohms or 4ohms bridged.
Click to expand...

My class d runs a lot cooler at 4 ohms then my mos fet solid state amp did at 4 or 8 ohms.
 
#88
will33 said:
Here's another article apart from Lenard that also mentions long term reliability...most notably this statement:

" Any SMPS can be expected to last until it's first used, and with any luck it can last for quite a few years thereafter."
Click to expand...

I think this statement applies to every single piece of electronic equipment ever manufactured, including tube and solid state products.
 
#98
I had a RH450 and it died once for a few seconds. Might have been crappy power at the bar, who knows. Worked great for 18 months of heavy gigging after that with zero issues.

I only got rid of it as I loved the tone from a Mesa M9 and the misinformation about the wattage kinda pissed me off.

Good amp IME but release proper specs.

P.S. Their customer service sucks. Luckily Clubbass in Toronto dealt with stress testing the amp as sending it to TC would have been a nightmare.
 
#99
JimmyM said:
I don't know...I actually like the sound of the micros over the big iron solid state amps so it was an easy switchover for me.
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I have been rendered nearly speechless by this quote.
From the revered leader of the big old iron amps on this board no less (at least the big/old Ampeg ones). Jimmy, what do you consider those B15's and SVT's of yours other than the quintessential big/old (and heavy) iron amps ?

I know you went through a MB phase and currently beat the drum for the Ampeg Micro VR stuff (I think that's correct .. no?), but to hear you make the quote above made me re-read it several times to make sure I had the right guy.

not really needling you, just curious (and shocked) about what you intended with this comment.


ON EDIT: ok, after re-reading your post, I now see you said "big iron solid state amps". Now it makes much more sense.

D'oh!

peace
 
#100
BurningSkies said:
I've gone through two blenders in 2 months. One was my heavy duty Waring blender...when there was a slight explosion out the bottom. Then Sunday my hand blender blew something and the driveshaft and blade blew out the bottom.

Both built with old technology.
Click to expand...

I was chopping up some frozen berries (for a smoothie) in mine when the phone rang. Left the fork in the blender and when I came back I forgot the fork was in there...
Turned on the blender and the fork shot right through the top of the blender and hit the ceiling! After a long cleanup I was so flustered that I went and played my bass (required bass content).

:hiding:
 

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