- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
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TC Electronics RebelHead 450 - Rebel with a Cause
- Thread starter Andy Brown
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Yeah, thanks for posting this. I had no idea they had this comingout. Looks interesting.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,074
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Analog electrionics (except for a few devices specifically intended for adding delay like bucket bregade devices and large shift registers used for analog purposes) have latency in the micro-second and sub-microsecond range. For "latency" purposes it's essentially zero or unmeasureable using analog techniques. Digital processing has latency that's related to the A/d and D/A conversion, and any processing algorithems used. Each instruction execution requires multiple processor cycles to fetch an instruction, fetch data, execute an operation on the data and then stuff it back in memory to fetch another instruction, etc. Then there are intentional delays added to allow another operation to fully execute before comparing or completing an additional process. For example, in digital compression it's common to "split" at the signal, calculate what the compressor will do to the signal (the control chain) and delay the actual signal to then allow the control to compress. This is called "look ahead" compression and allows for things we can't do analog but at the cost of increased latency. It also eliminates some of the artifacts found in analog compression. The tradeoff is artifacts (analog) versus latency (digital).
There is also phase shift in analog which is caused by entirely different mechanisms and should not be confused with latency as there is no constant shift in time. Both latency and phase shift will cause errors when summing 2 seperate processing paths, both will cause a comb filtering effect but with different signatures.
Be sure you are understanding and measuring what you think you are measuring since both errors will produce valid results that are meaningless out of context.
There is also phase shift in analog which is caused by entirely different mechanisms and should not be confused with latency as there is no constant shift in time. Both latency and phase shift will cause errors when summing 2 seperate processing paths, both will cause a comb filtering effect but with different signatures.
Be sure you are understanding and measuring what you think you are measuring since both errors will produce valid results that are meaningless out of context.
I just deleted a couple of posts in this thread. They weren't really over the top bad, but on the other hand they weren't really adding much to the discussion and I think the thread is better off without them.
Play nicely please folks.
If somebody posts something you think is out of line - for whatever reason - please report it by clicking the little exclamation mark triangle at the top right corner of the post. Please DON'T respond to it personally as some pretty harmless stuff can end up turning nasty and I get upset.
Ta! Carry on...
Play nicely please folks.
If somebody posts something you think is out of line - for whatever reason - please report it by clicking the little exclamation mark triangle at the top right corner of the post. Please DON'T respond to it personally as some pretty harmless stuff can end up turning nasty and I get upset.
Ta! Carry on...
There was a link earlier in this thread to eBay where a new one was going for $999. Since the UK link showed a price of 799# I would guess your $799 price is just about on the mark.
As interested as I am in this head, I think I'll let the pilot program run its course and check the results. Hopefully some TBers will get in on the pilot program
I am really looking forward to demo'ing this amp and putting it up against my Shuttle 6.0 and NeoX 212. I've been switching back and forth between an SWR head and my Shuttle, and the Shuttle blows it away IMO.
I love my Shuttle, but there are just a few drawbacks. I'm playing exclusively fretless right now, but I want to bring my fretted back in for a couple of songs (we play all originals). But I really have to drastically change the settings. Also, I'd like to footswitch the overdrive when I'm playing fretless - it seems that the TC has the PERFECT amount of presets to do all of those things! I like the built in tuner too. I bought the footswitch for my Shuttle but I don't use it - I'm pretty sure I would use the TC footswitch.
Crossing my fingers!
I love my Shuttle, but there are just a few drawbacks. I'm playing exclusively fretless right now, but I want to bring my fretted back in for a couple of songs (we play all originals). But I really have to drastically change the settings. Also, I'd like to footswitch the overdrive when I'm playing fretless - it seems that the TC has the PERFECT amount of presets to do all of those things! I like the built in tuner too. I bought the footswitch for my Shuttle but I don't use it - I'm pretty sure I would use the TC footswitch.
Crossing my fingers!
Just some food for thought on the cabs.
I did the calculations...the 2x12 cab is small, really small, probably too small. Its 13% smaller than the Tecamp 2x12 which I think is probably the smallest 2x12 on the market outside of some of the Schroeder designs. When compared to a more traditional 2x12 like the Mesa or Genz NeoX, we are getting in the 30-40% smaller range.
Now the 2x10 cab is basically the same external volume as the current Bergantino 2x10 offerings, so that seems more normal.
I did the calculations...the 2x12 cab is small, really small, probably too small. Its 13% smaller than the Tecamp 2x12 which I think is probably the smallest 2x12 on the market outside of some of the Schroeder designs. When compared to a more traditional 2x12 like the Mesa or Genz NeoX, we are getting in the 30-40% smaller range.
Now the 2x10 cab is basically the same external volume as the current Bergantino 2x10 offerings, so that seems more normal.
hey guys,
hope you don't mind me chiming in. I just saw that you were discussing latency through the amp. I don't have all the details right here, but know that we are around 1.6ms, so to use the "sound through air" analogy that means 1.6 foot or moving around 50cm's further away from you amp.
Uffe (TCE)
hope you don't mind me chiming in. I just saw that you were discussing latency through the amp. I don't have all the details right here, but know that we are around 1.6ms, so to use the "sound through air" analogy that means 1.6 foot or moving around 50cm's further away from you amp.
Uffe (TCE)
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