The Presence control at minimum is off. The RBI and Bass Driver DI are "based" on the same circuit but do not sound identical. You can't use the same knob settings to compare two of the same products let alone two different products. Potentiometers can vary 10-20% which is why we measure with a scope.
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This is fair, and they don't.
Sure you can, see how I compared them above. It's a literal comparison, showing the differences between the two.
While this is true... is it really feasible to believe that a 12dB+ difference is associated with pot-to-pot variance? Differing pot tapers, yes. But just variance between like pots? I find it hard to believe. Probably just better to stick with the justification of differences between the two models, which as noted above is fair (but still worth discussing).
I have multiple RBIs and BDDI v1s and they all perform similarly in this fashion, with very slight variance (of which I do associate with pot variance among other tolerances).
Edit (as I hook up a second BDDI v1)
This is pot (or just general) variance:
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The pot variance applies when comparing two of the same unit. When comparing two different units the pot variance doesn't mean much of anything.
@tech21nyc , why is it that your default tone here seems to me to be primarily a mix of dismissiveness and annoyance? This thread exists because we're enthusiastic about your products, and in some instances even enthusiastic enough to want to crudely look "under the hood" a bit and see what's going on.
I know your account is obviously more Product Support than Community Manager, but yeesh.
I know your account is obviously more Product Support than Community Manager, but yeesh.
i had to reupload it. little mistake in the edit ( i said twice that you can get a nice drive sound out of the BDDI when also boosting presence in higher gain settings...)
This was not the intention and we're sorry if you've taken it that way. My main purpose here is to answer questions and correct misinformation regarding our products. We test every product on a scope before it ships. I used to test them myself. We use an oscilloscope to test all new products against a "golden sample" for the reason stated previously. Potentiometers are not precise components and have a variance. This means that 12 noon on one pedal may be 11:30 or 12:30 on another. When you have active controls that boost or cut plus/minus 12-18dB that will yield a fairly big difference.@tech21nyc , why is it that your default tone here seems to me to be primarily a mix of dismissiveness and annoyance? This thread exists because we're enthusiastic about your products, and in some instances even enthusiastic enough to want to crudely look "under the hood" a bit and see what's going on.
I know your account is obviously more Product Support than Community Manager, but yeesh.
Agree with this.
@tech21nyc , GK, and Mesa have been been really good about responding to queries up here. I don't see a tone issue in the above response, and I'm happy that they stay active in this forum.
@tech21nyc since i got access to you now i'd like to repeat the questions i had about the pedals discussed in the video. maybe i can include your answers and pin them to a comment or add it in the video description...
1. so you can confirm that the presence control is boost only (on the bassdriver v2)? did i get that right?
2. what led you to the conclusion to set the rumblefilter on the paradriver v2 that high? according to my measurements (and also listening perception before) it starts at least as high as 200hz and rolls of quite steep.
I've experienced rumblefilters to be around 80 or 100hz in most non-bass specific applications and was suprised to find this one pretty useless for bass and for guitar. audio example would be in my video at 5:13.
3. the Air button is a mystery to me. accoriding to the manual it should add HF clarity, but even if it does in a discrete way, the change in sound that catches the ear is a midboost and bass cut. from what i hear when activating it, this should have been called like a "voicing/preshape" on/off switch, because it almost neutralizes the baked in scoopy-eq curve of the SansAmp Tube Emulation that you get when turning blend clockwise. can you explain what your thinking behind this was?
this is the frequency alteration that the Air-button does to the "full blend" signal. audio example would be in my video at 13:44
4. I dont know if this also happens with the bassdriver and the paradriver (cause i sold them after shoothing the video), but the sansamp circuit in the vt bass is never fully off. when you set gain to maximum, even when the pedal is off or blend is at minimum you can hear the distorted signal in parallel to the normal clean sound. very quiet, but it's there. this is ruling out using it as a high gain distortion stomp box that i switch on and off for me...
i saw other people here on talkbass discuss this bug (https://www.talkbass.com/threads/tech-21-vt-bass-di-strange-behavior-vtdi.1177734/ second problem that he described), but there was never a official explanation from your site. can you clarify if this is a malfunction or a byproduct of your circuit design? i can provide audio of that behaviour if you want. i just have not recorded it yet.
Thanks so much in advance for taking the time!
Darius
1. so you can confirm that the presence control is boost only (on the bassdriver v2)? did i get that right?
2. what led you to the conclusion to set the rumblefilter on the paradriver v2 that high? according to my measurements (and also listening perception before) it starts at least as high as 200hz and rolls of quite steep.
I've experienced rumblefilters to be around 80 or 100hz in most non-bass specific applications and was suprised to find this one pretty useless for bass and for guitar. audio example would be in my video at 5:13.
3. the Air button is a mystery to me. accoriding to the manual it should add HF clarity, but even if it does in a discrete way, the change in sound that catches the ear is a midboost and bass cut. from what i hear when activating it, this should have been called like a "voicing/preshape" on/off switch, because it almost neutralizes the baked in scoopy-eq curve of the SansAmp Tube Emulation that you get when turning blend clockwise. can you explain what your thinking behind this was?
this is the frequency alteration that the Air-button does to the "full blend" signal. audio example would be in my video at 13:44
4. I dont know if this also happens with the bassdriver and the paradriver (cause i sold them after shoothing the video), but the sansamp circuit in the vt bass is never fully off. when you set gain to maximum, even when the pedal is off or blend is at minimum you can hear the distorted signal in parallel to the normal clean sound. very quiet, but it's there. this is ruling out using it as a high gain distortion stomp box that i switch on and off for me...
i saw other people here on talkbass discuss this bug (https://www.talkbass.com/threads/tech-21-vt-bass-di-strange-behavior-vtdi.1177734/ second problem that he described), but there was never a official explanation from your site. can you clarify if this is a malfunction or a byproduct of your circuit design? i can provide audio of that behaviour if you want. i just have not recorded it yet.
Thanks so much in advance for taking the time!
Darius
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Thanks a lot for this. After all these years I feel confirmed about the VT being my favourite over the ParaDriver and the BassDriver V2 coming in second.
As far as I understand the Air and Rumblefilter buttons, those are not really designed with bass guitar in mind. The Paradriver is meant to be more of an all-purpose preamp, I use it for guitar and bass but the manual also says it can be used for acoustic guitar, violin, keyboards, etc.
The manual blurb about the rumble filter control says it's specifically targeted at unwanted noise in acoustic guitars. The air control is also targeted towards acoustic guitars. I don't use either one when I'm playing bass, but sometimes I engage it when I'm playing guitar. I really like my ParaDriver, but I don't use it for drive much at all, I have other dirt pedals that I engage for that purpose.
Thank you for the video! If I may offer one small piece of feedback, I had to rewind and pause the video at a few points to read the notes on the screen because they came and went so fast. I'm a pretty quick reader too so I imagine I am not alone in having trouble reading it all before the comments disappear. Can you leave them up a little longer for future videos?
Thanks for your input. Thinking of acoustic guitar, ghe rumblefilter makes more sense this way, but still, pretty extreme compared to what i know...
good to hear that the air works with acoustic guitar. However it does not explain why bass and mids are also affected by the air switch. I'm very curious what tech21 will say about this...
Thanks for the input! I went back and forth with leaving it longer, or showing the pause symbol like with the text about the vt bass thing kn the end, but if you say it would not boring to have them longer, then i will happily change that in future videos
good to hear that the air works with acoustic guitar. However it does not explain why bass and mids are also affected by the air switch. I'm very curious what tech21 will say about this...
Thanks for the input! I went back and forth with leaving it longer, or showing the pause symbol like with the text about the vt bass thing kn the end, but if you say it would not boring to have them longer, then i will happily change that in future videos
The presence control is boost only and off when set at minimum.
The SansAmp Para Driver DI evolved from the SansAmp Acoustic DI, which was released in 1997. In 2005, the new design incorporated a Drive control to offer some tasteful edge –just a little or over-the-top, a footswitchable bypass and was renamed the Para Driver.
From the manual:
RUMBLE FILTER
Engaged (in position), it removes unwanted sub-sonic frequencies that cause boominess and audible handling noises associated with acoustic guitars. Also complements other instruments, such as electric guitar, for a snappier, more inyour-face sound. Note: When Blend is at minimum, there will be no effect
From the manual:
AIR
Engaged (in position), adds top-end clarity and sparkle to acoustics. Also complements other instruments, as well as vocals, for more definition and more open sound. Note: When Blend is at minimum, there will be no effect.
The VT Bass DI was released over ten years ago. On the REV1 there could be some bleed through in bypass with the Drive at maximum. Turning the Drive down slightly eliminated the bleed through. The issue was resolved long ago on subsequent revs.
thanks @tech21nyc for responding so fast. i did read the manual of course, but i did not associate the phrase "removes unwanted sub-sonic frequencies" with the range way above 100hz. but maybe some people refer to that range that way when the subject is acoustic guitars.. so thanks for clarifying.
concerning air, so the midboost and basscut is meant by "more definition" in the manual? i just never expected "air" to affect the whole frequency spectrum. i just thought it would be a slight boost around like 7khz or sth like that...
thank you very much for the info on the VT Bass DI! that is indeed great to know, so if it bothers me sometime in the future again i will just hunt for a newer copy of the pedal.
concerning air, so the midboost and basscut is meant by "more definition" in the manual? i just never expected "air" to affect the whole frequency spectrum. i just thought it would be a slight boost around like 7khz or sth like that...
thank you very much for the info on the VT Bass DI! that is indeed great to know, so if it bothers me sometime in the future again i will just hunt for a newer copy of the pedal.
While I tend to have phases where I go back and forth between my VTRM and RBI, I'm currently on an RBI kick and have had it in the rehearsal studio a good bit lately. This was the latest rehearsal rig (rack is mine, stack was not).
Just finished the first rehearsal with it. My goodness what a pedal! 
Everything at noon, then a slight mid cut, prescense boost and a little extra drive with the blend knob dimed, et voilà - instant Bass Nirvana!
Everything at noon, then a slight mid cut, prescense boost and a little extra drive with the blend knob dimed, et voilà - instant Bass Nirvana!
