The argument for (or) against mixing cabs - example: 115 & 410

[ThisBass]

So, I don't want to weigh in on either side here, but I will say that I have always used mixed drivers, and I've never really been super happy with my tone. I also use a lot of effects, specifically fuzz and synthy kind of stuff, along with a little O/D, and now a bit of octaver in my clean channel to fill out the bottom when I have a lot of fuzzy whatevers going. The music I'm generally into ranges from electro-rock, almost 80's New Wave stuff, to heavier rock or borderline metal/industrial stuff. My current band leans on the heavier side, although I tend to write songs with more of an effected bass focus.

So here's my question, and feel free to weigh in on either side of the debate. I have been using the same basic rig for a number of years: Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 into a Mesa Powerhouse 2X10 and 1X15 cabs.

My drummer insists that I sound better with the 1X15 in the mix .. he seems to think there is more bottom end when I use it, which conventional wisdom would seem to support, however what I'm hearing here seems to be that this is actually an illusion, and I might be better off matching 10's or 15's exclusively.

So, any thoughts on what I might change to optimize my sound, cut through the mix, etc?

Personally, as bassist, I insist to stand close besides Hihatt/snare-drum, bass rig in plane with drummers place, somewhat "angled" in direction to drummer's ears. I never had any complaints like it's too bassy or too much of treble. And, at my traditional place on tage, I like it to hear snare drum and Hihatt sound "directly" into my ears. Fortunatelly I'm not a singer, I don't have to stay at the front line, so I can adjust bass sound on stage with the drumming as "effective" as possible.

 

[ThisBass]

I would get another 8 ohm 1x15 cab, whatever you can find, and go with that. It might not be a perfect match, but it would have to be pretty close.

If you're really worried, you could try to find a matched pair of 1x15s, use the pair for your big gigs and the single black widow for your small gigs.

gone without all of rationality but, that's like generic TB "dogma" at it's best.
sorry for the rant (direct words)

 

[FourBanger]

This is one reason why these threads get so long and contentious. People just jump in to herp and derp and beat up strawmen without understanding (or purposely ignoring) the actual message of the "mixed cab police."

Likewise the "mixed cab police" don't understand (or purposely ignore) folks who like the sound they get from their mixed setup who let the results speak to their point.

 

[FourBanger]

I tend to listen and learn from this guy:
View attachment 796639

I thought that thread was starting to go somewhere good, but it was perceived as a trollish affront and was locked.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I thought that thread was starting to go somewhere good, but it was perceived as a trollish affront and was locked.

yet this food fight lumbers on.?

 

[carl h.]

This is more like wrestling with a pig in the mud, except the pig thinks it is the human.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

This is more like wrestling with a pig in the mud, except the pig thinks it is the human.

NOW i know why i feel dirty.

 

[fjadams]

Haven't ever played thru one of these, but I'd sure like to.

Traynor Amps

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I'm a little surprised these threads still exist. Its like a battle since the dawn of TB. I can see a world where every time someone brings a thread like this up they are immediately redirected to a sticky and the thread closed. Im sure there are reasons for not doing this.... right?

BECAUSE there can be only one!

 

[Downunderwonder]

I have proved the science for myself by biamping my mixed stack. Noticeably better fidelity.

Most of the time my rig is by far the largest source of bass. The amount spilling from vocal mics is inconsequential.

There used to be regular complaints about broken 15 in mixed 410 stack. Either people are wising up or they are too embarrassed to admit it in these days of relative enlightenment.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I guess what I'm partially looking for is an opinion on the Mesa cabs specifically, maybe in concert with my head or whatever. I'm hearing a lot of support for 2X10 + 1X15 combinations, which is encouraging, but I don't know if I'd be better off going with a single 4X10 or something maybe. There is a nice, ported Markbass 410 on sale at my local music store right now...

the mesa 4x10's are great, some of the most solid and toneful in that design class, well thought out and like most Mesa products built like bomb shelters. may i be so bold as to suggest 2 of these in vertical orientation? Standard Powerhouse 2x10 Bass Cabinets | MESA/Boogie®
gets the speakers up by your ears. in deference to the 410. an easier schlep too.
Ping Agedhorse for his take on the 15/210.

Had the markbass equip in the past, oddly enough a 2x10 and a 15 standard, I actually liked the 15 standalone better, than the combination or the 210 by itself.
so, back they went, along with the LMII head. Bought a Jeff Berlin combo and another 15" (forget model) that sat under it nicely. and that worked quite well.
Mark Bass tweeters are HARSH. so i avoided using them. the 15" B&C drivers actually produce quite nice highs.

 

[Turock]

Does anybody know if that is Ginger from the Wildhearts?

Looks more like Mary Ann to me.

 

[kat888]

The thing I don't get (and it's not just TB, it happens everywhere) is the personal affront taken over the most trivial things. If someone tells you they don't like your amp, or your bass, or your cab config, or whatever ... *big woop*, don't lose your sh!te over it.

 

[Discount Saint]

the mesa 4x10's are great, some of the most solid and toneful in that design class, well thought out and like most Mesa products built like bomb shelters. may i be so bold as to suggest 2 of these in vertical orientation? Standard Powerhouse 2x10 Bass Cabinets | MESA/Boogie®
gets the speakers up by your ears. in deference to the 410. an easier schlep too.
Ping Agedhorse for his take on the 15/210,

Huh.. You know I hadn't considered getting another 210 and putting the vertical. When I use my existing 210 I do place it vertical, so I guess it makes sense.

Seems like it would look a little bit funny and skinny on stage..

I do wonder whether my older Powehouse 210 will play nice with one of the newer ones.

 

[ThisBass]

The thing I don't get (and it's not just TB, it happens everywhere) is the personal affront taken over the most trivial things. If someone tells you they don't like your amp, or your bass, or your cab config, or whatever ... *big woop*, don't lose your sh!te over it.

May be you are happy with your bass guitar but did you ever A/B-ing it with ....
NT predicts a rather more consistent tone than BO design which is a crapshoot due to different vibrational characteristics of different woods IME.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Huh.. You know I hadn't considered getting another 210 and putting the vertical. When I use my existing 210 I do place it vertical, so I guess it makes sense.

Seems like it would look a little bit funny and skinny on stage..

I do wonder whether my older Powehouse 210 will play nice with one of the newer ones.

verify the specs, but if it's within the last 5 years or so, the changes may not be too dramatic?
the vertical array only looks odd, for a bit, but on a tight stage, getting it in/out of the venue it's a godsend. It will be as, if not a bit taller than a 410/115 stack.
the concern, (forgive me if already mentioned) what head? a wide chassis led sled, rackmount or heavy tube head may get a bit sketchy but a smaller chassis/Class D head looks good.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

May be you are happy with your bass guitar but did you ever A/B-ing it with ....
NT predicts a rather more consistent tone than BO design which is a crapshoot due to different vibrational characteristics of different woods IME.

don't forget the Brass nut, and High mass bridge. Orange drop capacitors.
But at the end of the day, you will see the light and realise that only a Fender Precision Bass is the proper bass. and flats bring the TONE.

 

[Discount Saint]

verify the specs, but if it's within the last 5 years or so, the changes may not be too dramatic?
the vertical array only looks odd, for a bit, but on a tight stage, getting it in/out of the venue it's a godsend. It will be as, if not a bit taller than a 410/115 stack.
the concern, (forgive me if already mentioned) what head? a wide chassis led sled, rackmount or heavy tube head may get a bit sketchy but a smaller chassis/Class D head looks good.

Yeah, it's a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0, so pretty well as small and light as you can get. Works fine on top of a single 210, for sure.

My cabs are pretty old, though. I bought them used probably 8+ years ago, and they don't even have Speakon connectors, so it's hard to say how they would match up.

I guess I could sell them and buy new; it would certainly be in keeping with what done with the rest of my gear lately :$

Thought about switching to Markbass cabs, but I've been told the Mesas are more mid-forward, which may be what I need for my sound.

 

[kat888]

don't forget the Brass nut, and High mass bridge. Orange drop capacitors.
But at the end of the day, you will see the light and realise that only a Fender Precision Bass is the proper bass. and flats bring the TONE.

DON'T FORGET THE TORT!!!!

 

[DavidEdenAria]

I'm an engineer and understand phase cancelling and mismatched power. I understand why mismatched cabs can be problematic.

But here's a different problem. Some people seem to switch out equipment on a regular basis, but I don't. Just don't play enough for it to make sense. I have a single Peavey 115 BVX cab with a Black Widow speaker. Sounds awesome. Really nice sound. It's a keeper and I want to keep playing through it.

Now maybe some day I'll be lucky enough to play somewhere where this single cab won't be enough. Things would be much louder pairing this with another 8 ohm cab with the head putting out more power into a 4 ohm total load and having more square inches pushing the air.

However, I can't just go out and buy another identical cab. They don't make these any more. Peavey makes a similar size 115 Headliner, but it has a different driver in it. Cabs are heavy and the used market is pretty much limited to what you can find within a short driving distance. What do I do to determine whether some other cab is going to match this, whether it's another 115 or perhaps a 210?

Probably no simple answer. All depends on the actual drivers, ported vs. sealed, size of cabinets, etc. But are there any simplifying assumptions that can help lead to selecting a second cab. Note, just saying "try it out and see how it sounds" doesn't really work since that means I'd have to drag my rig to whomever is selling the cab and cranking things up to room shattering volume just to make sure I am not deciding based on bedroom tone. Not to mention having looking for problems are various distances from the speakers.

So serious question, no trolling. Any suggestions about what to do in such a situation? As I said, there may just not be a simple answer.

But you can find used Peavey gear everywhere in the USA.

If you keep searching used you will find plenty.

A pair of 15" Peavey Black Widows aint a bad thing!