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the bebensee arrives today!!!!!!

#302
Todd, I guess as Devil's Advocate I do feel a little bit queasy about your assertion that this was a $5,000 instrument. You did not just toss is out once, it was stated many times throughout this thread. It was, in fact, a $4100 instrument. I have never heard of anybody factoring $175 in shipping in to the value of the instrument. It is for sale now at Brian's for $4599. Presumably this would factor in next day shipping to you plus a consignment fee. Even still, it is not a $5,000.00 instrument.

I am bit concerned that you have asked and/or approved TB'ers donating to your recouperation without giving them a completely accurate picture of how much money was spent and where it went.

I think you have a unique style and I feel badly for the way this turned out, but I just feel very unsettled.
 
#303
Wilbyman said:
Todd, I guess as Devil's Advocate I do feel a little bit queasy about your assertion that this was a $5,000 instrument. You did not just toss is out once, it was stated many times throughout this thread. It was, in fact, a $4100 instrument. I have never heard of anybody factoring $175 in shipping in to the value of the instrument. It is for sale now at Brian's for $4599. Presumably this would factor in next day shipping to you plus a consignment fee. Even still, it is not a $5,000.00 instrument.

I am bit concerned that you have asked and/or approved TB'ers donating to your recouperation without giving them a completely accurate picture of how much money was spent and where it went.

I think you have a unique style and I feel badly for the way this turned out, but I just feel very unsettled.
Click to expand...

I didnt ask for 5K recoup for me, I was PM'ing other members and i was advised to pad for the cost of a websight and accountants, the PM tber's can verify this I never asked for a single penny over $4375 for me
Ken charged ME $175 for the shipping overnight I just wanted the damn bass so I payed it!
and then I payed to have it shipped to brian, and he had to put on new strings, I had to buy supplies to try and fix the ball holdsters and remove oil (misc $50-$85 bucks)
BUT I NEVER EVER ASKED ANYONE FOR anything over $4375 for me. anything over that was to go towards other things not even going through my hands.
That is the amount of $$ that came out of my pocket for that bass and the amount of mone I'd love to recoup but will never happen. since ken wont give me that money back. I wanted to simply recoup what I was out after getting humped in all directions.
ken also asserts that my ziricot was not what I payed and that was $200.
I'll never get a penny for that bass but until the holidays I was going to see if it could sell
like I said repeatedly I would'nt take a penny over what I payed.
If anything went to donations etc.
WHICH WASNT MY IDEA. either, go back a few pages..
There would have been full disclosure about the $175 for the overnight. too feel unsettled for my recoup and to balance that on $175 which
ken promoted I pay is IMO trivial
 
#304
Lokire and Tribal, everything you've stated is correct. :)

Within the custom instrument marketplace, there is a VERY strong distinction between those that operate a reputable business (with a stable cash flow and perhaps even some attractive letterhead that conveys a sense of additional awesomeness? LOL!) and those that do not. But thankfully enough, the instrument community does a great job separating the good guys from the cancerous companies who fraudulently market themselves as professional "custom" builders.

Lastly, that's one hell of a written response you received Tribal. It's got Ivy League composure written all over it. Pure genius. ;)

Lokire said:
It seems to me like you have a problem with organization, and when a bass like this is being build over 3-4 years, that's something you have to keep track of very carefully. Every e-mail, letter, picture, and phone call regarding the bass should be saved to be reffered to later.

I don't know how exactly you build basses, but I just don't see why it should take that long when TONS of other luthiers do simmilarly amazing work in such a shorter amount of time.
Click to expand...
 
#309
I know of at least 2 people who are to not be named who read this and PM'd me about it.
I told them all the details, and even devulged the actual emails and the rediculous 6 months+ between them.
and they decided they were going to pull thier orders with him.
they were all set to go but hadnt sent the $$

I was as honest as I could be , thats how I live all of my life
its an open book , no secrets no deception which is why that post by wilybman hurts,
the whole raffle thing, and and money that was to be discussed in actual ##'S was not my idea and I didnt even want to touch the thing because of this possible outcome. (which is what I pm'd about this exact scenario)
which happened anyway, makes me look bad for wanting, [not actively trying] to recoup my dignity, and money I lost in this 4 year debacle. not to turn a profit from getting screwed.
even not including the money I spent on the files and steel wool to try and fix some of the problems He told me to fix on my brand new bass.
Also
Brian has to charge at least $100+ for his trying to sell the bass, (lugging it to shows, etc.)
theres nothing wrong with that he has to ship the bass and he put a new set of strings on it too.

I digress, he lost business and I am sure recieved a few emails at least without my knowledge, as well as because of this horror story.
 
#311
I'd crap myself a gold bar if that happened, really I would. a solid gold bar would form in my colon.:eek:
and I would forgive him too for admitting his folly and rectifying it.

but his behavoir is still deplorable.
the 6 months between emails,
the crappy incomplete inlay
the cracks
the telling me to fix a new $4375.00 bass myself
and everything else wrong with this 4 year debacle.
 
#313
Well, I feel a little better after reading that full e-mail from Ken. At least he offered to help in some way. But here are my main issues:

"-------------------------------------------------------------
7. my intention is to build instruments for people who play music not museums that take instruments away from musicians and put them on silent display. I have over 140 happy customers that all love their instruments as they are. sure there are some people that can nit pick out all the imperfections.
------------------------------------------------------------"


This statment is PURE ********. Just because a bass is being made to be played doesn't give the luthier ANY excuse for 'imperfections'. And ESPECIALLY when you're paying over 4 grand, and the luthier has 4 YEARS, to build the bass. There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for little (and big) errors like this. And Ken called this 'rushed'? "If I had another year to build your bass"? REDICULOUS.


I also realize that Ken does state a very long build time for his instruments on his website.

"The average time required for building instruments is currently 30 months. It takes longer for carvings, inlays and intricate custom work. "

I realize that's the "average" time, but Tribals bass took, what? A full year longer? What exactly was it that made this bass take so much longer? That simple little inlay? I'm no expert but that could have taken much more than 3...4 hours? Maybe the scroll horn (which doesn't even look that great...) would take a little extra time. Maybe a few days...a few weeks at the most working on and off?


And did Ken forget about this, which is clearly stated on his website:

"Instruments can be made to any practical specification, shape or size imaginable and you may be very specific about your choice of wood, hardware, and electronics. All instruments are guaranteed for great tone, ease of playability, and quality craftsmanship throughout."


Ken is making these basses at a loss of profit? I can imagine that. But only because it takes so long to build a bass. I don't know how many basses Ken builds at a time or how many hours is put into each bass before completion, but I'm guessing that Ken is either building too many basses at one time, or he is being lazy and not putting as much time into them as he claims. And I'll say it again. When you're paying over 4-grand for a bass, and it's being built over the course of about 4-years, there is absolutely NO excuse for the kind of things that have been screwed up with this bass.


I also have to wonder, because every bass I look at on Ken's website is gorgeous. I also have Ken's full color brochure and again, every other bass I've seen from Ken looks amazing, and yet this one looks hastily built and of much lesser craftsmanship. I also wonder as to why there haven't been any updates to Ken's website for years? I think maybe a couple years ago the site was redesigned and now looks much better, but I haven't seen any new instruments up there since I first saw the website, many many years ago.


I'm glad Ken posted here himself, and I do hope he posts more. There are still unanswered questions that I'd like to hear a response from Ken himself on. Hopefully he'll do the right thing and refund Tribal in full. Even if he doesn't have the money, he could at least give Tribal the refund in monthly installments or something. Just saying you're 'broke' is a lame way to respond. There is always a way...
 
#314
I also greatly disagree with the notion that the bass sounds and plays great as the bottom line. It's a very weak excuse.
A Fender Jazz plays and sounds great, too. The reason Todd paid $4k for the bass rather than $1000 for a Fender is because he wanted a series of custom options made exactly to his specs.

Don't take the money if you're not willing to do the work.
 
#319
So, if you figure that the normal guy works 40 hours a week for 50 weeks a year (I factored in a 2 week vacation) then over 4 years that's 8000 hours in which to finish this bass. Now, the bass is nice but not 8000 hours nice. And if you divide 8000 hours into $4K you come up with an hourly rate of $0.50 per hour.

No wonder Ken is complaining about not making money...

Ken, here's an idea. SPEED UP. Your hourly rate will skyrocket if you do.
 

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