Agreed TXbasschik, that's why I have respect for them, but the reason I think they are overrated is because many people still haven't "moved on," per se. I think I may be getting into music history/philosophy here. 
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The Clash... Overrated????
- Thread starter jackcregg
- Start date
Agreed TXbasschik, that's why I have respect for them, but the reason I think they are overrated is because many people still haven't "moved on," per se. I think I may be getting into music history/philosophy here.
Well, you know...when you're older...these things can happen if you're not careful.
I find a lot of my friends (and these are mostly non-musicians I'm talking about here) that are my age have a hard time "moving on" to newer music. They just can't find anything about it to enjoy. They are stuck in the 70's or the 80's. They seem to *want* to be there, you know? Like, its just too much work for them to keep their minds open...they have too much else on their plate in life, and they find comfort in the familiar. One of my old boyfriends from high school refuses to listen to anything recorded after 1980. Poor guy...he is limiting himself. And he was a musician, back in the day!
I make myself listen to things that, at first, I might not like. But if I listen carefully, and try to find famliar elements, it helps me connect to newer music that my kids want me to hear. Or to older music that my folks loved, and I didn't, when I was young. Works both ways, and can only benefit the listener! It gets harder to do that as one ages, but with regular exposure to music outside one's comfort zone, it is surely do-able.
Cherie
I bolded part of your post because I see a bit of irony in that statement. After all, The Clash were pushing boundaries with London Calling. Stylistically, musically and socially. Sure, if you analyze them from a technical standpoint they don't rate as virtuosos, but what they meant to the face of music at the time and the impact they had on music that followed them isn't really debatable.
This reminds me a bit of an argument I had with a guitar player when I mentioned that I respected McCartney as a bass player. His response was that Sir Paul's basslines were all too simple and that he could never play what Billy Sheehan or John Myung played. And while I'm sure that's true, and with no disrespect to either one, neither of them has changed pop music forever.
As for Hella, they're from my hometown and just a couple years younger than me so I've been aware of them for a long time. When I'm in the right mood I dig them a lot, but it's always an uphill battle for a band like that to make it into the mainstream. Sure, similarly odd and genre bending acts like Mr. Bungle and Primus have had some success, but they're the exception rather than the rule. But the fact that they haven't made it big really has no bearing on the discussion of the Clash.
BTW if you like Hella, you might want to check out a couple of Zach Hill's side projects. There's "The Ladies" with Rob Crow from Pinback and "Team Sleep" (which I really dig) with Chino Moreno from the Deftones.
London Calling is certainly their best album. They experimented with the usual pop-forms but they still had enough punk to be credible and they had not yet embarked on their mission to be a third-rate reggae band.
LC usually shows up on lists of greatest rock albums of all time. I think it tends to show up a little high on the lists, so one could make the case it is over-rated in that sense.
LC usually shows up on lists of greatest rock albums of all time. I think it tends to show up a little high on the lists, so one could make the case it is over-rated in that sense.
It is very possible my definition of overrated is different from what others here define it as. I have heard people say things such as, "No one will ever top 'London Calling,' or fill in any Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, or even Nirvana album. So, I think that if there are people out there that still believe that, then the album is overrated. I apologize if I'm arguing in a totally different direction as everyone else.
Yeah, it is sad that popular music (in America at least) is mainly filled with copycats and drones. I agree with you there!
Thanks for the info on The Ladies. I knew of Team Sleep but not The Ladies. Pinback is a great band as well, I think.
I agree that more technical does not mean better. Otherwise, I would not play the way I do in my band. I think it depends on the context of the larger "picture" of the music.
Eh, on pretty much any level music distribution is a business. It's just the nature of the beast and always has been. The safest way to make money in the music industry is to follow formulas and try to give people what they seem to want. And as illegal downloading continues to eat into profits, big labels are going to be even more conservative in terms of who they put their marketing and distribution muscle behind. Popular music is filled with "copycats" for the same reason movie production companies push for sequels.
That's why we should treasure those bands that broke the mold. The small bands that catch a spark and make it big, or the bands that are already big enough to have to clout to do something bold and new.
If Nevermind came out today I think people would see it as a good or maybe even great album. But it wouldn't have the acclaim that it does. Albums have to be appreciated not only for the music itself, but in context of their place in music history.
That's why I love London Calling, and Nevermind and Revolver and countless others. Of course people can expand on the ideas and concepts, but that doesn't sap the original of its impact. Victor Wooten has done innovative things with slap bass that Larry Graham never did. But that doesn't lessen Graham's impact or make him "overrated".
But in some ways I can agree with you. I met a guy who refuses to believe any music released after 1972 (or some arbitrary point he decided on) isn't any good. That the "best music has already been made." I hate that kind of mindset as much as you apparently do. His personal obsession is The Who. I dig them, but I don't see them as the almighty musical touchstone that he believes them to be. In that case, I agree with your label of "overrated". But in general, I think you can't go wrong with appreciating the landmark works of the past to give you perspective on the new music that you seek out.
I really can't list off the hundreds of bands that have been inspired by The Clash and carried the elements found in their music to new heights. I didn't think this idea of musical progression would be so foreign to so many people, especially musicians.
I know I am being vague, but I don't see any specifics on why The Clash are so great.
So, what is it that makes The Clash or "London Calling" so appealing to you?
Again, all respect here. It's just hard when we're not actually talking and have to go through a messageboard.
Well, I hope you don't think of me as a grey, balding old man in a leather jacket still listening to his old Clash vinyl... that simply couldn't be any further from the truth. I actually work for a producer, and sign acts, mostly of an avant-garde (I wish I had a better adjective to use here) nature, and try to help further their musical careers, but that's another topic.
Why were The Clash so great? Love or hate 'em, they came along at a time when the music that was appealing to the masses was something very different to what they were offering. Yeah there were other acts doing what they were doing, but they had an appeal that was so broad it affected more than their people, it crossed over to a mass crowd that was bigger than them. Now, you may hate commercial groups, I certainly hate some of them, but when someone takes a sound, something that they have organically grown and it not only appeals to their fanbase, but also finds it's way into the souls of a whole generation, AND RETAINS IT CREDIBILITY, then that's an admirable feat, and that, to me, is a certain kind of greatness.
It doesn't happen very often, the last person to do it in some ways is Eminem. Cobain before him, although he gets an asterix for the obvious reason... who knows, if he'd have lived Cobain could've sold out and been Elton John by now. I'm sure others have their own opinions on who and when but again... you made a sweeping statement that The Clash are over-rated and what they did has been done better by others... by whom I still ask. Who has come out of a musical wasteland, made albums that spoke to a whole generation, played the big places, sold big numbers, became small living legends AND kept their credibility somewhat intact while doing it?
I agree with that 100%
I think london calling is one of the greatest albums of all time!!
greatest album of the 70s
and greatest british album ever made.
The album is so long, yet, i could never get bored of it!!!
Well, I will willingly admit defeat at finding an act that reaches large masses that really changes music today. To be honest, I haven't listened to the radio in 7-8 years, and I don't have cable to get MTV or Fuse or whatever. I have already assumed that any music I make will never fully support me financially, and I believe that a lot of artists I listen to feel the same way. Pop status is not even a thought.
Also, I am making no judgments on anyone here, and I don't think that if you really like The Clash you are "a balding old man in a leather jacket still listening to his old Clash vinyl" (though vinyl is great, and I can't wait to put out some vinyl of my music). I just don't take pop status into the equation, and just as you said, other people were doing similar things at the time. So, that is a big deal for me. Similarly, I think Radiohead is way overrated, though I like them a lot. There are so many other bands that did what they are doing or are doing it better right now. So, that doesn't mean I still don't listen to them, but too many people hail them as gods- "Hail to the Thief" indeed...
However, take my 25 year old opinion with a lot of salt, because as far as bands more than 15 years old go, I only really listen and highly praise a few: Roxy Music, David Bowie, Bauhaus, The Smiths, Joy Division, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, The Zombies all come to mind, though I know there are a few more.
Also, I am making no judgments on anyone here, and I don't think that if you really like The Clash you are "a balding old man in a leather jacket still listening to his old Clash vinyl" (though vinyl is great, and I can't wait to put out some vinyl of my music
). I just don't take pop status into the equation, and just as you said, other people were doing similar things at the time. So, that is a big deal for me. Similarly, I think Radiohead is way overrated, though I like them a lot. There are so many other bands that did what they are doing or are doing it better right now. So, that doesn't mean I still don't listen to them, but too many people hail them as gods- "Hail to the Thief" indeed... However, take my 25 year old opinion with a lot of salt, because as far as bands more than 15 years old go, I only really listen and highly praise a few: Roxy Music, David Bowie, Bauhaus, The Smiths, Joy Division, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, The Zombies all come to mind, though I know there are a few more.
I only really listen and highly praise a few: Roxy Music, David Bowie, Bauhaus, The Smiths, Joy Division, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, The Zombies all come to mind, though I know there are a few more.
IMO, you have a fantastic taste in music..., some of my all time favourites there...
Thanks very much. I really appreciate it. Based on your experience, I really respect your opinion.
That goes for the rest of you guys as well. I say this a lot in these forums when I debate, but don't take my differing opinions to mean that I don't respect what everyone else has to say. After all, that's how we all learn, and I have definitely changed my opinion before.
How....dare.....you..... 
I don't believe they are overrated at all. Actually, they are my favorite punk band. Even more so than The Ramones.
I don't believe they are overrated at all. Actually, they are my favorite punk band. Even more so than The Ramones.
I don't think people need to slag the Ramones and Sex Pistols to make a case for the Clash. The Clash would not have been the band they were without the Ramones' influence. What is overrated is always subjective. The Clash seem to have influenced a lot of musicians which I consider a more important marker of a band's "greatness" than the opinions of music critics.
This sure is an old thread, but NO!!!!! The Clash are one of the greatest of the original punk movement, along with the Ramones, The Pistols, and the Stooges, who are actually proto-punk.
The Clash were the most "grown up" of these bands, with the best lyrics, overall musicality, and just plain coolness.
None of these bands can be overrated, no matter what anyone says. They influenced millions, and put out amazing product that bands today can only dream of replicating.
The Clash were the most "grown up" of these bands, with the best lyrics, overall musicality, and just plain coolness.
None of these bands can be overrated, no matter what anyone says. They influenced millions, and put out amazing product that bands today can only dream of replicating.
