Three-string chords work very easily voiced mandolin-style - root, fifth, third an octave up.
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The Fifths Tuning Club
- Thread starter ~M.o.M~
- Start date
+1!
You'll find that chords played this way have a very open sound that you don't encounter frequently in a standard tuned bass. That's because there are no clashing overtones to make your chords "muddy". If you like muddy though, then yes, you'll need to invest into some tapping to get those chords back.
If you make the switch, remember to keep your mind in an open, embracing state. Don't strive to play pieces as you used to in standard tuning. You'll have to make compromises in the way, some of which may turn into bright ideas that you'd never encountered before, completely changing your take on the instrument.
All in all, tuning in fifths is an interesting journey. Whether you decide to keep on tuning this way or not, you will have received a novel view on bass that few people had the chance to experience.
Whatever questions you may have, you are more than welcome to express them here.
Hey guys,
This CGDA tuning has intrigued me for a while but I've never taken the plunge.
I recently got the urge to learn a bunch of 70's Prog Rock tunes (Rush, Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Triumvirat, etc). I also want to learn some metal such as Metallica, Iron Maiden, and Tool. Eventually, I'll want to compose some similar types of music with an emphasis on classical music-type melodies, with rock rhythms.
I was planning on restringing my bass for DGCF tuning, but am wondering if this would be even better for my goals (the range is obviously).
Do you guys think this tuning will be easier for these fast/complicated type of bass lines or would it be more difficult?
I rarely do any chords.
Thanks
This CGDA tuning has intrigued me for a while but I've never taken the plunge.
I recently got the urge to learn a bunch of 70's Prog Rock tunes (Rush, Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Triumvirat, etc). I also want to learn some metal such as Metallica, Iron Maiden, and Tool. Eventually, I'll want to compose some similar types of music with an emphasis on classical music-type melodies, with rock rhythms.
I was planning on restringing my bass for DGCF tuning, but am wondering if this would be even better for my goals (the range is obviously).
Do you guys think this tuning will be easier for these fast/complicated type of bass lines or would it be more difficult?
I rarely do any chords.
Thanks
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For more modern metal styles it should work ok because the bottom strings are the same as a drop tuned bass, maybe DAEB to match Drop D, but it may complicate standard tuned metal like Iron Maiden.
Hey guys, I've finally strung my bass up to CGDA... I'm just in an experimental phase right now and cobbled up a set with various sets and gauges I had kicking around. It's not an optimal set at all, but will at least give me a chance to fool around with it and see if I like it.
I got a few questions for you guys:
1) How do you guys move up and down the neck? Let's say you're doing a major scale on two adjacent strings; would you do one finger per note and pivot/slide your way up and down the neck as you play each note, or would you hit the root with the index, then the 2nd with the ring/pinky, then slide, then play the 3rd with the index again, and the 4th with the middle?
2) Do you guys have any recommended exercises (other than just running through scales and re-learning familiar tunes)? I'd love a book of beginner cello etudes or something like that.
3) Any helpful advice you can share to a newb in this tuning?
I got a few questions for you guys:
1) How do you guys move up and down the neck? Let's say you're doing a major scale on two adjacent strings; would you do one finger per note and pivot/slide your way up and down the neck as you play each note, or would you hit the root with the index, then the 2nd with the ring/pinky, then slide, then play the 3rd with the index again, and the 4th with the middle?
2) Do you guys have any recommended exercises (other than just running through scales and re-learning familiar tunes)? I'd love a book of beginner cello etudes or something like that.
3) Any helpful advice you can share to a newb in this tuning?
I have one tuned CGDA and have not gone all in with it, but have played with it quite a bit. Those 3rds are not that difficult, you just have less options for them. On a 4ths tuning a minor 3rd is easy either on one string or across. A major third is easy across and a stretch on one string.
On 5ths tuning a minor third and a major third on one string is exactly the same. A major third from a lower to higher string is reaching back three frets, same reach as a minor third on one string. A Major third on one string or a minor third across two are equally difficult stretches.
A 1-3-5 triad across three strings is impossible unless you have hands like Kareem Abdul Jabar, but many of the inversions are pretty easy. 10ths are pretty easy and a 1-5-10 chord is actually really easy on only three strings.
Hey there, Matthew! I made a quick, dirty video in response to your questions. It contains a few scale runs, as well as some songs to see how things work when playing in fifths.
Now, to get into details:
- Hopefully that's covered adequately in the video. Hit me up if you have more questions.
- To be honest, you'll find that running through familiar tunes will be a challenge on its own. At least it was, and still is, for me. I find that running through "real" songs is more helpful than any scale, arpeggio or whatever exercise out there, since it gives you practice material that can absolutely be applied to your own playing.
- Well, as with anything, go slow, be consistent, and the results will definitely come. Of course, if anything hinders your progress, you're welcome to ask the community here and probably save some time, maybe avoid some headaches too!
Hello! I joined this forum because of this thread!
I was thinking about tuning my bass guitar, which is a five-string to CGDAE to play pieces for cello and because instruments sound much better in perfect fifths tuning to me. I couldn't imagine no one in the world would have done that before so I decided to look up the information on the string gauges I would need on the Internet. However, I have no idea how this string tension charts etc. work. My bass is a 34" scale length bass. Could anyone maybe explain how these charts work, or advice me the right string gauges? Since I like to play slap bass, I would like to have steel strings, are these available in these gauges? Thanks in advance, this thread is awesome.
I was thinking about tuning my bass guitar, which is a five-string to CGDAE to play pieces for cello and because instruments sound much better in perfect fifths tuning to me. I couldn't imagine no one in the world would have done that before so I decided to look up the information on the string gauges I would need on the Internet. However, I have no idea how this string tension charts etc. work. My bass is a 34" scale length bass. Could anyone maybe explain how these charts work, or advice me the right string gauges? Since I like to play slap bass, I would like to have steel strings, are these available in these gauges? Thanks in advance, this thread is awesome.
Hello xatja, and welcome to TalkBass!
Choosing the right gauges is, as with all things strings, a matter of personal taste. Here's how I'd search for the right strings for me.
Since fifths is a non-standard tuning, I'd look out for a string company that provides single strings in a great range of gauges. I personally like Kalium Strings for offering a huge variety, so I'll use them in my example.
(Feel free to check Bass Strings Online too! They provide single strings from all sorts of manufacturers.)
Now, it's time to use a tension chart to decide which strings are right for me. For that, I'll use the set of strings I currently use to determine which average tension is right for me.
Let's say I use a .095 - 0.40 in standard EADG tuning. Using the tension chart (Link Removed's the one from Kalium) I try to find a similar string gauge in it to see how much tension the string has when tuned to the desired note.
In the chart we found that a .094 string has a tension of 34.08lbs when tuned to E. Similarly, we find that a .039 string has a tension of 35.03lbs when tuned to G.
So, we come to the conclusion that my preferred tension is around 34-35lbs. With that in mind, I'm going to choose right strings for me.
(Picture above shows only the chosen tensions.)
So, considering the string choices we have, I settled for a set of .124 .082 .055 .035 .023 that has tensions ranging from 36.06lbs to 37.7lbs.
That's pretty much it! Now that we covered the basics, you should be able to find a set of strings that suits you. If you want to delve into the subject, I suggest you take a look at khutch's String Tension Calculator, which includes most of the string companies that are out there.
If you have any more questions, you are most welcome to reply back!
Thanks for the quick reply M.o.M.! I was looking for a string chart for Kalium strings but I couldn't find it.
I had no ideas what strings are on my bass at the moment to be honest. So I tried to aim for an equal tension of about 48 for all strings. Is that a reasonable tension? Of course I might need to adjust the action and redo the intonation, but that will be ok. But, since I have no idea about string tension, would 48 be a reasonable amount of tension on the string? This is what I got to:
Gauge Tension
E4 .026 47.03
A3 .041 48.5
D3 .063 49.41
G2 .094 48.21
C2 .142 47,88
Would that work? Thanks again for the quick reply.
[edit] Would that .026 actually be tunable to an E4, and is a fifth on an A3 actually an E4?
I had no ideas what strings are on my bass at the moment to be honest. So I tried to aim for an equal tension of about 48 for all strings. Is that a reasonable tension? Of course I might need to adjust the action and redo the intonation, but that will be ok. But, since I have no idea about string tension, would 48 be a reasonable amount of tension on the string? This is what I got to:
Gauge Tension
E4 .026 47.03
A3 .041 48.5
D3 .063 49.41
G2 .094 48.21
C2 .142 47,88
Would that work? Thanks again for the quick reply.
[edit] Would that .026 actually be tunable to an E4, and is a fifth on an A3 actually an E4?
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48lbs seems way too much for me! You may be damaging your instrument at such high tension. Not only that, your strings could break at any moment.
I'd personally choose .130 .086 .057 .037 .024/.023, averaging at 40lbs. I'm not sure if the .024 can sustain 40lbs of tension, so send an email at Kalium's support just to be sure.
I'd personally choose .130 .086 .057 .037 .024/.023, averaging at 40lbs. I'm not sure if the .024 can sustain 40lbs of tension, so send an email at Kalium's support just to be sure.
(And now for another opinion)
I've gone the balanced tension via Kalium - love the strings - but depending on the bass, ascending or descending tension was easier playing for me than a "balanced tension set". Again, this is just me so you'll need to experiment to see what floats your boat.
I'm finding that I either source (5 string sets for a 4 string CGDA (5ths) tuned bass) based on how I want the C or the A [of CGDA] to sound or have the tension that I am looking for. Purchasing a 5 string set means that you toss the E and up the B, down the A, D stays and G up to A. Most of the sets that I've tried that with give a pretty good descending tension (balance?) from A to C - of which I'm a fan.
When I started a few months ago with CDGA tuning, I was playing mostly 6 string basses. If I was subbing for others, I'd usually have the bass with ascending tension (loose C higher tension B as in CDGAEB). If I was playing more jazz or blues, it'd be descending tension (high tension C, low tension B - again CGDAEB tuning for a 6 string bass).
Now that I'm only using 4 string basses, I prefer a higher tension C and then play the string package tuned in 5ths. Though YMMV, buying a 5 string set based on the B or G, then tuning to 5ths will "usually" be an enjoyable set. Mixing and matching is always one way to go - but I'm pretty lazy in my (older) age...
Likely the most surprising to me for package sets was with TI Jazz Flats. Historically, I just wasn't a fan of TI Jazz Flats when tuned in 4ths. But when tuned in 5ths, the B->C tightened nicely and the A (in IHMO was always somewhat loose in 4ths) tightened up nicely when tuned up G->A on my P/J. Fat Beams set did the same on my Streamer, as did a set of (Medium) Chromes on my Thumb (fretless). Still haven't tried the GHS Precision Flats or the Sunbeams that I picked up the other day - so for those I cannot opine.
That said, the only set that I didn't care for [again IHMO!] was a set of LaBella DTFs. In fourths they were terrific, but tuned to 5ths, not so much...
John
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That's awesome! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video and write your post!
1) It is definitely more fluid and easier to shift to the individual notes rather than shifting to the different positions. I am a bit concerned about it though - I'm hoping to buy a fretless soon and would use this tuning on it, but I don't know what's better for accuracy and intonation.
2) I have found a website (CelloOnline.com) and it has a bunch of free cello sheet music which I've been learning, but the Suzuki books sound like a great idea. Also, re-learning songs I already know is something I really should do more of... This tuning is still very foreign feeling to me and that would certainly help (both to give me familiar material and guck me stuff tat I can apply).
3) Thanks... And thanks again.
I'm really liking this tuning... I will admit that if I was mostly playing rock or jazz, I would probably tune in 4ths.
However, I've become obsessed with classical music, and particularly the cello. I would buy a cello, but I don't have the time to dedicate to learning another instrument, and I still love the low end. So, I'm going to get a 24 "fret" fretless 5'er and tune it to CGDAE, which will give me the same range as a standard cello but with one lower octave instead of the cello's highest octave, and if I play the C on the 5th fret of the G string, then I'm in the cello's lowest octave, and I have three strings higher as well.
I am also planning on getting some tone-shaping pedals (reverb, volume, EQ, and maybe a muff-style fuzz) and a looping pedal, and play some cello style leads with some lower, counterpoint melodies underneath.
I've pretty much given up playing all of the rock songs I used to play (I was sick of them anyway), and have just been learning cello etudes and some beginner songs on CelloOnline.com. I've been playing them an octave up on my fretted 4 string, and ensuring my fretting (and shifting) accuracy is right on point, to help with the transition to the fretless.
However, I've become obsessed with classical music, and particularly the cello. I would buy a cello, but I don't have the time to dedicate to learning another instrument, and I still love the low end. So, I'm going to get a 24 "fret" fretless 5'er and tune it to CGDAE, which will give me the same range as a standard cello but with one lower octave instead of the cello's highest octave, and if I play the C on the 5th fret of the G string, then I'm in the cello's lowest octave, and I have three strings higher as well.
I am also planning on getting some tone-shaping pedals (reverb, volume, EQ, and maybe a muff-style fuzz) and a looping pedal, and play some cello style leads with some lower, counterpoint melodies underneath.
I've pretty much given up playing all of the rock songs I used to play (I was sick of them anyway), and have just been learning cello etudes and some beginner songs on CelloOnline.com. I've been playing them an octave up on my fretted 4 string, and ensuring my fretting (and shifting) accuracy is right on point, to help with the transition to the fretless.
I plan to make the transition very soon! I'm considering "sourcing" my 5- and 6-strings sets like @jharms80439 did, but I'm worried about causing any twisting or warping of the neck, especially when tightening the high G-string, which seems like it's always the tightest of the bunch to begtrying in with.
Should I be concerned, or just go for it?
I also like to slap, and I don't want to get injured to pop a mega-tightened string
Should I be concerned, or just go for it?
I also like to slap, and I don't want to get injured to pop a mega-tightened string
Hey guys I posted this in the strings section as well but I figure you guys might be able to help.
I am wanting a set of flatwound strings for tuning DAE on a 36" scale bass with 32-38 lbs of tension. Doing the calculations using D'addario's information for the Chromes it looks like a .105, .070 (or .065), .045 set would work, however I want them to be as flexible as possible, so I am looking at the DR Legends Flats. With their round-core, they should be plenty flexible and they come in the right gauges, but I don't know if they are comparable relative tension wise (EG is the difference between the Chromes D and A similar to the difference between the Legends D and A strings)
Also if anyone has a bass strung with legends flats could you tune it to Eb (A) Bb F (the first fret of a 36" scale bass is about 34" from the bridge) and tell me if it feels fairly balanced?
I'm building a 3 string Basso Cello (build thread is over here if you're interested:Winter 2017 Build-Off: EUBC) and I'm now I'm looking for strings to put on it.
I am wanting a set of flatwound strings for tuning DAE on a 36" scale bass with 32-38 lbs of tension. Doing the calculations using D'addario's information for the Chromes it looks like a .105, .070 (or .065), .045 set would work, however I want them to be as flexible as possible, so I am looking at the DR Legends Flats. With their round-core, they should be plenty flexible and they come in the right gauges, but I don't know if they are comparable relative tension wise (EG is the difference between the Chromes D and A similar to the difference between the Legends D and A strings)
Also if anyone has a bass strung with legends flats could you tune it to Eb (A) Bb F (the first fret of a 36" scale bass is about 34" from the bridge) and tell me if it feels fairly balanced?
I'm building a 3 string Basso Cello (build thread is over here if you're interested:Winter 2017 Build-Off: EUBC) and I'm now I'm looking for strings to put on it.
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Okay! I've done it! Grabbed an Ibanez Talmab TMB100 off the wall at GC, $50 off! I had a 6-string set that came on my Dean Edge 6 a while back, unfortunately I have NO IDEA what strings or string gauges they are (thick red silk at both ends), so I used the B, A, D, C strings tuning them to C, G, D, A. Tension feels fairly even. There's a lot more jumping around, yet for some reason I know exactly where to go...it's strange. Also a good change to work on my technique as I'm getting a lot of string-screech making these jumps. Loving the new chord shapes, the new octave shape, and I can still play my favorite songs just fine.
@Will_White will the strings reach far enough on a 36"?
I think that with these types of experiments, you just have to dive in and try out the strings! You won't know until you try! You've already taken the steps to create something unique, might as well go for it!
@Will_White will the strings reach far enough on a 36"?
I think that with these types of experiments, you just have to dive in and try out the strings! You won't know until you try! You've already taken the steps to create something unique, might as well go for it!
That's what it's looking like, I chose the 36" scale because I'll be able to use most super-long scale strings.
Would I be able to string an acoustic bass CGDA? I'd be using a .125 low C-string. I'm mostly concerned about whether it can fit on the bridge or not.
