The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[Bassworship1]

So no Noble anymore?

I loved the Noble but am now back with my old band and tried the Noble and Starlifter live. The band and our Soundman both loved the Starlifter better.

 

[SteveC]

I loved the Noble but am now back with my old band and tried the Noble and Starlifter live. The band and our Soundman both loved the Starlifter better.

Right. As my son says about food he used to eat. Tastes change dad. When I went REDDI the band loved it. I turned on the LA-1A (my favorite piece of gear until the REDDI) and they said, nope, just REDDI. And that was after a couple months of LA-1A. It's OK to change. Just because something is amazing at the time, tastes change, dad.

 

[tedsalt]

The best thing I could do is point you in the direction of what sold me on it.

First, was the Sweetwater DI shootout:
The Great Direct Box Comparison with Audio Samples

Second, there was a video on Youtube that seemed to go through a lot of audio of the shootout, that showed it in more depth:



Granted, I'm pretty sure the video is in French, so you kind of have to use your imagination. But it's a video of the Sweetwater shootout, essentially. I tried using translated closed captions, but that was way off, lol. But just from listening, you can get the gist. And it was way more helpful than just the Sweetwater website's audio samples, as you can hear the guy in the video gradually adding more instruments to it.

On the Sweetwater page, I thought the TF actually sounded kind of dull, like it killed some of the highs. And it was similar in the video, and I think the guy (in French) points that out, but I'm not sure. But then when you hear it in a band context, it sounds fat and phenomenal.

I got the Oracle about a week ago, and needed to come up with a DI. I almost bought a Countryman that was in the classifieds, but didn't really want to have to deal with an active DI. The Lightning Boy sounds phenomenal in recordings as well, from what I've heard. I was actually going to pull the trigger on the Lightning Boy based on Scuba's samples. I was waiting and hoping they might have a black friday special, but then a deal came up on the 'Verb for the TF, so I snagged it. I'm glad I did. I had wanted to try a TF for some time, because I have always heard great things about Telefunken's gear, but there's so little out there on the DI.

As for how it compares to other DI's I've had, I have not had many DI's to compare it to. But I have had several preamps with built in DI's, so it's hard to say. Since Covid, in particular, I have had a ridiculously fast-turning revolving door of gear coming in and out because I'm bored and have nowhere to play. But I have had some really great stuff in that time, and still have some of it. As for straight DI's, the only other one I had recently was a Khan, which is a totally different animal, and is a truly remarkable beast. I don't know that I could compare the Khan to the TF, because they're so different. And I didn't have the Oracle when I had the Khan. I sold the Khan when I bought a Broughton SSDI, which, again, is a different animal entirely from just the TF DI, which I'm now using with the Oracle, which itself I just got within the past week or two. So drawing any real meaningful comparisons will be challenging. You're better off listening to the above samples.

Tomorrow I'll try to compare it to what I can. But you can't really compare just the TF DI to the SSDI. I could maybe compare the SSDI to the Oracle/TF combo, to what extent that would be helpful. The only other DI I currently have is an IMP2, which I ganked off my guitar board when I got the Oracle because the Oracle didn't have a dedicated DI out. For a few days, I was playing the Oracle and the SSDI through the IMP2 (line out on the SSDI to keep it a fair comparison). Going back and forth between the two, they are entirely comparable, just different. The SSDI's Fender tonestack vs the Oracle's James tonestack. Different flavors of punch and awesomeness. To simplify things the past couple of days, I was using a 1/4" out from the Oracle with a 1/4" to XLR converter plug and plugging that straight into my Rolls PM50. Let me assure there is NO comparison between that the the TF. I'll compare the Oracle through the IMP2 and TF tomorrow, though I'm sure the comparison won't be fair. I already know based on memory of playing the Oracle through the IMP2 that the TF will be warmer and fatter, with more presence. The IMP cuts some lows, I think. The IMP is fine for an electric guitar board that I haven't even left the house with in like 5yrs. But I wouldn't use it for bass when there are better options readily available.

I guess I've been away for a minute. (I got a job once again). (woot).

Since when did you start accumulating higher end gear?

Just kidding, but way to go! Rock on!

As I have the Oracle, and I've heard some say you can't get as clean as they'd like to be with the Oracle, can you get a cleaner tube tone with the SSDI vs the Oracle?

Is there even such a thing as "clean" tube tone? I think you cross a theoretical line there somewhere.

Can you get the same drive using the gain on the SSDI as you can with the Oracle?

Enquiring minds and all ...

Thanks !!!!!

 

[Krisfield]

Suncoast Analog have released a 10th anniversary B1p.

 

[jacoby75]

I guess I've been away for a minute. (I got a job once again). (woot).

Since when did you start accumulating higher end gear?

Just kidding, but way to go! Rock on!

As I have the Oracle, and I've heard some say you can't get as clean as they'd like to be with the Oracle, can you get a cleaner tube tone with the SSDI vs the Oracle?

Is there even such a thing as "clean" tube tone? I think you cross a theoretical line there somewhere.

Can you get the same drive using the gain on the SSDI as you can with the Oracle?

Enquiring minds and all ...

Thanks !!!!!

Yeah, lots of time in lockdown with nowhere to play has led to some serious gear acquisition. Idle hands and all.

I don't know about drive. I haven't had the Oracle or SSDI long. I have never gotten drive out of the SSDI, on purpose or by accident. Maybe it can be done, I don't know, if you hit the input hard with something. There isn't a "gain" per se, just a volume. But if you turned it up loud enough, maybe it would distort? I dunno. But as it is, it's super loud. I can't get the volume up past 12:00 without blowing out everything I own. So I don't see myself turning it up loud enough to distort on purpose.

As for the Oracle, I have no problem getting clean tones out of it. When I get the gain much past 1:00 it seems like it starts to distort, which I don't want. But 1:00 or lower, no problem. I haven't turned up the gain on the Oracle enough to make it distort on purpose and leave it there, so as to assess the quality of its distortion and see if I like it or not, because that's not what I want out of it. But I could do that just for kicks later and see how it sounds. If I want any kind of gain or drive, I have pedals for that.

 

[tedsalt]

Yeah, lots of time in lockdown with nowhere to play has led to some serious gear acquisition. Idle hands and all.

I don't know about drive. I haven't had the Oracle or SSDI long. I have never gotten drive out of the SSDI, on purpose or by accident. Maybe it can be done, I don't know, if you hit the input hard with something. There isn't a "gain" per se, just a volume. But if you turned it up loud enough, maybe it would distort? I dunno. But as it is, it's super loud. I can't get the volume up past 12:00 without blowing out everything I own. So I don't see myself turning it up loud enough to distort on purpose.

As for the Oracle, I have no problem getting clean tones out of it. When I get the gain much past 1:00 it seems like it starts to distort, which I don't want. But 1:00 or lower, no problem. I haven't turned up the gain on the Oracle enough to make it distort on purpose and leave it there, so as to assess the quality of its distortion and see if I like it or not, because that's not what I want out of it. But I could do that just for kicks later and see how it sounds. If I want any kind of gain or drive, I have pedals for that.

Actually I picked up a Hudson Broadcast-AP to kick in some overdrive when needed, and that works nicely. I guess I'm interested in which gives you more "cleaner" tube tone between the Oracle and the SSDI.

Back in the day I had a silverface Bassman amp which I ran thru a Sunn folded cab, and that was fairly righteous, and I know others enjoyed the sound that emanated from that rig.

Now that I'm back in the game I've been looking for something similar. Never had an Ampeg though. Well, till I picked up a PF-20T. I ran that thru a Crest power amp into 410 Neo(s). Should have kept that PF-20T too Danged GAS

 

[jacoby75]

Actually I picked up a Hudson Broadcast-AP to kick in some overdrive when needed, and that works nicely. I guess I'm interested in which gives you more "cleaner" tube tone between the Oracle and the SSDI.

Back in the day I had a silverface Bassman amp which I ran thru a Sunn folded cab, and that was fairly righteous, and I know others enjoyed the sound that emanated from that rig.

Now that I'm back in the game I've been looking for something similar. Never had an Ampeg though. Well, till I picked up a PF-20T. I ran that thru a Crest power amp into 410 Neo(s). Should have kept that PF-20T too Danged GAS

Well, the SSDI is fantastic, and wicked loud. I haven't had the chance yet to compare the SSDI to the Oracle through my power amp. But when I tried the SSDI through my power amp, I could barely get the volume on the SSDI to 9:00 before the whole house was shaking.

 

[scubaduba]

Actually I picked up a Hudson Broadcast-AP to kick in some overdrive when needed, and that works nicely. I guess I'm interested in which gives you more "cleaner" tube tone between the Oracle and the SSDI.

Back in the day I had a silverface Bassman amp which I ran thru a Sunn folded cab, and that was fairly righteous, and I know others enjoyed the sound that emanated from that rig.

Now that I'm back in the game I've been looking for something similar. Never had an Ampeg though. Well, till I picked up a PF-20T. I ran that thru a Crest power amp into 410 Neo(s). Should have kept that PF-20T too Danged GAS

The SSDI is the "cleaner" device. Or "less colored" is maybe a better way to say it. That said, I prefer the tone stack on the Oracle.

 

[jacoby75]

The SSDI is the "cleaner" device. Or "less colored" is maybe a better way to say it. That said, I prefer the tone stack on the Oracle.

I concur. The SSDI is incredible. But there is something about the James tonestack that speaks to my soul.

 

[tedsalt]

Well, the SSDI is fantastic, and wicked loud. I haven't had the chance yet to compare the SSDI to the Oracle through my power amp. But when I tried the SSDI through my power amp, I could barely get the volume on the SSDI to 9:00 before the whole house was shaking.

And there's the problem with running a 2000 watt power amp at home , which is partly why I sold mine.

I've actually considered, as of late, picking up a Fender Bassman 100T which would match my Bassman Neo 410 cabs, and that switches from 100w to 25w to 0w for direct, which is pretty cool, but it weighs almost 50 lbs, which is what I've been trying to get away from. Also considered the Ashdown CTM-30 Little Stubby, which I believe uses the fender tone stack. That's a little more what I'm looking for size and weight wise, but you can't skip the cab and just go direct.

I may just pick up a Quilter BB800 and run my board with the Broadcast, LA-1A and Oracle directly into that, if that will run lower home volume and still give me that LA-1A and Oracle tube vibe.

Sometimes I think I want something more than silent practice with headphones, and my better half would like to hear me practicing worship tunes.

 

[Rocky55]

Looks like the Oracle/DI is now available.

 

[emjazz]

Looks like the Oracle/DI is now available.

View attachment 4050908

Micah rules. Great to see the change!

 

[Rocky55]

Yes - it's fantastic to have such amazing small boutique companies that peruse these threads and listen to their customers. I'm glad Micah still produces the original and provides the DI as an option. As for myself, I will continue to enjoy the Oracle into the RNDI. But if realestate was at a premium on my board and I mostly used it live, the Oracle DI would likely be my preference. We're spoiled!

 

[SteveC]

Tone in a box...in a box.

 

[SumOne]

Not seeing much love for the EBS Microbass 2 and I'm not sure why. I don't think much else ticks all the same boxes, especially as it is currently about half the price of many other DIs:

• Two channel preamp:
  • Input one or two instruments
  • Using one Bass: Can set it through channel 'A' with certain EQ then footswitch click to 'B' for a different EQ and drive, or A+B to combine
  • ....slight issues are that you lose some features if using either 'A' or 'B' channel rather than A+B e.g. 'A' channel doesn't include Drive. And it is difficult to match output volumes if you want a click between a clean 'A' with a highly Driven 'B'..... But this seems a bit picky to complain about because many DI's only have the A+B equivalent option anyway (e.g. for the Sansamp BDDIv2 to go from a driven sound to a clean one needs turning the blend control and adjusting volume- the equivalent which can still be done with the Microbass 2 in A+B mode)
• Five EQ filters (Bass, sweepable mids, treble, bright, edge)
• Tube simulator & Speaker simulator
• Drive (or without Drive, Boost, Tube sim, EQ etc. it does a good clean transparent sound)
• Effects loop with mix control
• Outputs:
  • Link output (I'm using to go to a tuner)
  • XLR and output. Balanced output with speaker simulator, post/pre EQ filter and ground lift
  • Headphone output
• Four powering modes

I guess there are DIs with 'better' (depending on taste) colouring of the tone, and some include things like compressors, but personally I prefer to use separate pedals for those things and use the DI as a practical tool that can do a transparent sound if needed and deal with Inputs, EQ, FX loop, Outputs, and I don't think much matches the Microbass 2 for that. I do have my eye on the DSM & Humboldt Simplifier that pretty much does all the Microbass 2 does + more, but it is currently double the price which I'm not sure is justified.

I've only owned this and the Sansamp BDDIv2 so am no DI expert and perhaps I'm missing something but it seems if you want a practical DI you should consider getting this while it's available and relatively cheap, and now the v3 is out I guess v2 isn't being produced anymore and it's going to get scarce.

 

[Zbysek]

Not seeing much love for the EBS Microbass 2 and I'm not sure why. I don't think much else ticks all the same boxes, especially as it is currently about half the price of many other DIs:

• Two channel preamp:
  • Input one or two instruments
  • Using one Bass: Can set it through channel 'A' with certain EQ then footswitch click to 'B' for a different EQ and drive, or A+B to combine
  • ....slight issues are that you lose some features if using either 'A' or 'B' channel rather than A+B (e.g. 'A' channel doesn't include Drive, but many DI's seem to only have the A+B equivalent option anyway),and it is difficult to match output volumes if you want a click from a clean 'A' with a highly Driven 'B'.
• Five EQ filters (Bass, sweepable mids, treble, bright, edge)
• Tube simulator & Speaker simulator
• Drive (or without Drive, Boost, Tube sim, EQ etc. it does a good clean transparent sound)
• Effects loop with mix control
• Outputs:
  • Link output (I'm using to go to a tuner)
  • XLR and output. Balanced output with speaker simulator, post/pre EQ filter and ground lift
  • Headphone output
• Four powering modes

I guess there are DIs with 'better' (depending on taste) colouring of the tone, and some include things like compressors, but personally I prefer to use separate pedals for those things and use the DI as a practical tool that can do a transparent sound if needed and deal with Inputs, EQ, FX loop, Outputs and I don't think much matches the Microbass 2 for that.

I've only owned this and the Sansamp BDDIv2 so am no DI expert and perhaps I'm missing something but it seems if you want a practical DI you should consider getting this while it's available and relatively cheap, and now the v3 is out I guess v2 isn't being produced anymore and it's going to get scarce.

I own one and really like it. I, too, have been wondering why it is not receiving more love here...

it is difficult to match output volumes if you want a cli

​

While I found your summary generally correct and I agree with most of your assessment, I would like to clarify the above sentence.

I find it very easy to match output volumes of the two channels..using the "Boost" control on the A (clean) channel.

Actually, one achieves unity gain between the channels by puting the "Drive" and "Boost" knobs at the same position.

This is the way I proceed: I switch the channel B on and turn the Drive knob until I find the amount of overdrive which I like. Then I switch the channel A on and set the Boost knob at the same position as the Drive knob. That way, both of my channels are at unity...

 

[SumOne]

I own one and really like it. I, too, have been wondering why it is not receiving more love here...

​

While I found your summary generally correct and I agree with most of your assessment, I would like to clarify the above sentence.

I find it very easy to match output volumes of the two channels..using the "Boost" control on the A (clean) channel.

Actually, one achieves unity gain between the channels by puting the "Drive" and "Boost" knobs at the same position.

This is the way I proceed: I switch the channel B on and turn the Drive knob until I find the amount of overdrive which I like. Then I switch the channel A on and set the Boost knob at the same position as the Drive knob. That way, both of my channels are at unity...

I guess my issue is that to match 'B' Drive at maximum the 'A' Boost also needs to be at maximum- but that isn't a clean 'A' channel tone because the Boost adds some drive. The only true 'clean' tone from 'A' is with the Boost at zero - so to match that output with 'B' that needs to be at zero drive.

Edit: actually I just checked and you're right. It was becasue I have the Tube sim on so the boosted A is adding that Tube drive. With that off it's not an issue. Thanks! This pedal just got even better!

 

[Zbysek]

I guess my issue is that to match 'B' Drive at maximum the 'A' Boost also needs to be at maximum- but that isn't a clean 'A' channel tone because the Boost adds some drive. The only true 'clean' tone from 'A' is with the Boost at zero - so to match that output with 'B' that needs to be at zero drive.

I have not experienced the A clean channel not being clean (provided the tube sim is disengaged)...but I rarely set the Boost/Drive knobs above noon.

Do you have the "Tube sim" engaged? If yes, try to disengage it…it reacts to higher level signals...so it might be the cause of your problem...

The othe possible cause which I can think of is clipping the input. You may try to engage the -10db pad...

 

[Zbysek]

Edit: actually I just checked and you're right. It was becasue I have the Tube sim on so the boosted A is adding that Tube drive. With that off it's not an issue. Thanks! This pedal just got even better!

Glad to be able to help!

Actually, I have the opposite "issue" (rather insignificant though)

I don't want my B channel to be too dirty...while I would like the tube sim on A channel to be engaged… In order to do that, I would need the Boost knob above noon-which makes the B channel little too dirty with some of my basses...

As I said, it is not an important issue to me (almost a non-issue)

 

[PeterH]

Saw someone in the Broughton thread talking about using this to get a tube power amp section feel for recording; otherwise I've read a bit here and there and it (or at least that company's gear) seems to be used by quite a few famous people across the pond...

Audio Kitchen, musically inspiring amp design

I've only heard one bass demo from a while back from the classic Pedals and Effects channel, and it was mostly dirty there but I'm preeetty sure you can get clean tone out of this one. Anyone else heard of this thing? There's a smaller DI version of just the first preamp stage as well (no power tubes)