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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison
- Thread starter chadhargis
- Start date
I posted this over in the Noble thread:
Before anyone ventures down a path of interpreting that the Noble is not a stellar piece of kit, let me say it absolutely is. It sounds great and is amazingly well built. The DI alone sounds great. Adding in EQ makes it more versatile. I have no doubt it would great in a mix and take a bass guitar signal and make it sound, well, better. If you want an easy-to-use device that is about as plug-and-play as it gets, the Noble is on a different level than many (most) other preamp pedals I've tried.
The RNDI sounds just as good to me as the Noble without EQ applied. If I had to pick a favorite, I'd give the edge to the RNDI for straight DI signal because to my ear it adds a sweetness to the highs that the Noble doesn't. Everything else is quite equal. But I doubt that's why most people buy the Noble. They want a sweet DI signal with the ability to tweak the tone too. But it doesn't really offer the tube sound I was looking for in a tube preamp.
The Oracle can be dialed in to sound pretty much just like the Noble but offers far more in the way of tone tweaking including being more aggressive, offering more complexity in mids (and mid control), and having more of the "tube tone" we assume a tube device would have. Which is better between the Noble and Oracle? For me, the decision is easily the Oracle. Maybe not for you. This is especially true if you just want to plug in and go. The Noble offers the 9 volt outputs to power other pedals which may be enticing to you. The fact that these outputs are not isolated means that this is not an attractive feature for me. The Oracle does lack a XLR out though which might be a deal breaker for some.
Then there is the Grace Alix. It is not a tube preamp. But it sounds just as full and big, if not more so than either the Oracle or Noble because it has this bottomless feel to it. It has more of a 3D complexity than either the Oracle or Noble. It isn't a tube hairiness, no its just something sweet and spacial. Maybe it is the transformer. It is easily the most versatile with full sweepable HPF, phase reversing (the magic button), fully sweepable mids (and selectable in which range), sweepable Q, Notch filter (if you want), and impedance selection. The XLR is ridiculously quiet. Those features matter to me. Maybe not you. For a non-tube preamp it has a complexity of sound I've never experienced. The Trickfish Trilobite is similar but the phase reversal switch and mid Q allows you to make the Grace Alix have a very focused, punchy, solid state type of pristine sound, or roll it off for a wider, looser, more tube type experience. The impedance selection makes the Grace Alix a tone machine for anything from high output active basses to passive basses to upright basses with piezo systems. Then you have other features I will likely never use like the 12 volt phantom power out. The Alix also has a 9volt output to power other pedals. The Mute footswitch is important to me. I appreciate having the Tuner out which allows me to keep the tuner pedal out of the signal path. I appreciate the line level and mic level selection for the DI out. I appreciate the up to 10db boost option with footswitch to activate when a slight boost is needed (such as on choruses or situations where a little more gain is needed to "keep up").
All three of these "preamps" would be at the top of my list. Each has different features and potential purpose. You need to decide which is best for you.
I'm talking about the mids Q dial in combination with the phase reverse button.
From the manual: https://www.gracedesign.com/support/manuals/ALiX_Owners_manual_RevD.pdf
"Q factor determines the sharpness of the bandwidth of the frequency being adjusted. A higher Q factor setting – turning the Q knob further clockwise - creates a sharper bandwidth and thus a more targeted, surgical EQ adjustment. Alternately, a lower Q factor - turning the Q knob further counter clockwise - creates a broader tonal adjustment."
In practice, the broader tonal adjustment in combination with the phase reverse button can create a "looser" feel, at least to my ear. Because of how important the mid frequencies are to a bassist's tone (whether boosted or cut), the Q of the bandwidth can have a relatively significant impact.
From the manual: https://www.gracedesign.com/support/manuals/ALiX_Owners_manual_RevD.pdf
"Q factor determines the sharpness of the bandwidth of the frequency being adjusted. A higher Q factor setting – turning the Q knob further clockwise - creates a sharper bandwidth and thus a more targeted, surgical EQ adjustment. Alternately, a lower Q factor - turning the Q knob further counter clockwise - creates a broader tonal adjustment."
In practice, the broader tonal adjustment in combination with the phase reverse button can create a "looser" feel, at least to my ear. Because of how important the mid frequencies are to a bassist's tone (whether boosted or cut), the Q of the bandwidth can have a relatively significant impact.
jacoby75
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- Mar 11, 2010
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Hey @scubaduba , I'm considering selling a few things and cashing in a portion of my government cheese on one of the more expensive tube preamp pedals. Currently, I'm debating between the SLO and the Oracle. I run a direct only pedalboard, passive basses usually, and I like the tubey, vintage tone, but not necessarily overdriven. Sometimes, I like that "barely there hair" thing, but I have other pedals for that, should it be necessary. The Broughton P15 sounds phenomenal, but it's a bit more than I want to or can spend, is almost never available because people snatch them up so fast, and is certainly not pedalboard friendly.
Which would you recommend? I know the Oracle was your most recent favorite of the two. But it's a bit pricier, is not as pedalboard friendly (at least not for the small pedalboard that I sometimes use), and doesn't have a cab sim. How necessary do you think the cab sim of the SLO is? Have you ever used either direct with any kind of overdrive or distortion? Do you think a cab sim is necessary? Currently, I use either a CAL Grizzly and the Broughton HPF/LPF as my cab sim of sorts, when needed, but haven't used the Grizzly in a live setting yet to know whether it actually sounds as good as it does in my headphones or not.
Which would you recommend? I know the Oracle was your most recent favorite of the two. But it's a bit pricier, is not as pedalboard friendly (at least not for the small pedalboard that I sometimes use), and doesn't have a cab sim. How necessary do you think the cab sim of the SLO is? Have you ever used either direct with any kind of overdrive or distortion? Do you think a cab sim is necessary? Currently, I use either a CAL Grizzly and the Broughton HPF/LPF as my cab sim of sorts, when needed, but haven't used the Grizzly in a live setting yet to know whether it actually sounds as good as it does in my headphones or not.
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@scubaduba ,
Can you please explain how you are finding the phase reverse switch so magical? Unless you are mixing the preamps output back in with another signal from your bass, it should have zero audible effect.
- John
Can you please explain how you are finding the phase reverse switch so magical? Unless you are mixing the preamps output back in with another signal from your bass, it should have zero audible effect.
- John
That is correct. Until you have another pedal in front of the preamp. Like a compressor or OD or Reverb, etc. That's where the phase button becomes pretty handy.
I owned a Noble and loved it. The simplistic EQ and lack of bells and whistles is what I loved most about it.
I sold the Noble and got a Tube Injection and I loved it. But it was very big and took up lots of space. I went to the SLO and while it doesn’t sound quite as good, it runs on 12v, has can sims, and is small. In a live mix through a PA no one is going to hear the difference. I haven’t found anything that is as small, light, and feature packed that is as good as the SLO.
I sold the Noble and got a Tube Injection and I loved it. But it was very big and took up lots of space. I went to the SLO and while it doesn’t sound quite as good, it runs on 12v, has can sims, and is small. In a live mix through a PA no one is going to hear the difference. I haven’t found anything that is as small, light, and feature packed that is as good as the SLO.
jacoby75
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- Mar 11, 2010
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One thing that I love about the Broughton SVPre and Southampton Ictineo, and sometimes using them together, is the punch and authority that it/they give each note. Like, it makes them pop. Gives them girth, sustain, power, oomph. I don't know how to describe it. But the tone feels really solid (except when engaging the low switch of the SVPre, which engages filters and makes it sound more like an old SVT or B15. A little flubbier.) In your opinion, is the SLO flubby? Like, where the attack of the notes gets a little lost and washed out? I've heard that in a couple of the demos on Youtube. Especially when the gain is cranked up. But that's probably normal, and might be impacted by what type of tube you employ in it.
I guess that’s the subtle distinction. I want the tube “sheen, sparkle, glass,” but not the “flub.” Like I used to have when I used my Demeter rack pre.
I might still try one of those AMT tube bass boxes, the Alembic or Orange model, but I’m holding out for some US availability without the $40 shipping price tag.
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I forgot about the Shaw. I had that one too. It is more like the Oracle. Pretty big form factor though.
Short of trying the weildly P-15, it seems like the Oracle and the ALiX are at the top of your list; ALiX for clean studio tone and form and the Oracle for a more vintage tube tone... is that summation right?
I'll 2nd the Shaw looking a little to weird for me. I play in the worship and church setting and the look and aesthetics are important to me if that makes sense.
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The Grizzly sounds awesome live. I usually use it for just a touch of OD and maybe a little bit of the mid scoop. Does a really good job of providing a little dirty compression and cab-sim-like fullness on direct gigs. It's always on with my P bass, and then occasionally with my Jazz 5 when I want to pop out in the mix a little more.
jacoby75
Supporting Member
- Mar 11, 2010
- 5,661
- 10,716
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Mike Lull Custom Guitars, DR Strings
