The host band ruined the jam.

[Mark Ambler]

Jazz gigs are always tuned standard. As far as I know, so are orchestra gigs, big band gigs, and bluegrass gigs. I hate Eb tuning - it doesn't sound right to me. I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have really good relative pitch. I can play in flat keys - "Misty" should be in Eb. "Green Dolphin Street" should be in F. And so on...different keys sound different. If you can't hear the difference, you may not hear very well. Okay, throw stuff now!

Hmmm, Green Dolphin St in F? Hah, I see you are from Donna Lee territory, (sorry, terrible joke). In London, U.K. it's regularly played in Eb or C. Having played the song countless times, we alternate choruses Eb then C. I guess I should change to F&Db or Ab and F, just to try to keep things fresh. Another 'fun' thing is alternating Choruses in 4/4 & 3/4, tricky at first, but becomes 2nd nature after a while.

Back to alternative tuning, the late great Allen Holdsworth used alternative tuning often. I remember Roy Babbington telling me he picked up Allen's guitar once to play a blues or something, he was quite surprised.
But his tuning didn't have any affect on how others tuned their instruments, basically pitch used is always A440.
As you mentioned perfect pitch, which I have, I can confirm that playing a detuned instrument really messes with my head, and as for 'keyboardists' that use the transpose button, either respect music and yourself enough to learn how to play, or.................Actually, having said that, there are songwriters that are 'pianistically' challenged. Gilbert O'Sullivan can on play in a couple of keys and had a special piano built that would drop the pitch by a 3rd or something. Still A440, but after a few tuning shifts A440ish I would guess. I would still say there is no reason not to become musically literate, especially with all the resources available online.

Anyway, for reference, Allen and Roy played together on the Soft Machine album Bundles, and others.

 

[Mark Ambler]

I never, outside of knowing what key I'm in, think note names when I'm playing. That's not how I conceptualize or play music. I think and play based on intervals. It's faster in my head, and transposition becomes a near total non issue.

That might work for you, but I don't think note names, I hear them. The downside of perfect pitch is that it can be detrimental to being a great sight reader. I have had to really work hard on my reading to get it up to scratch.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Many electric pianos including my cheapo Yamaha have an option to detune with a few button pushes.
Its not cheating, its playing dumber.

Fixed.

 

[Mark Ambler]

1) bring a gun
2) put it to BL's head
3) Play in standard tuning
4) profit

Fixed

 

[Nashrakh]

This may be off-point, but I know a couple of guys that really can't sing. But they tune down a half step and like magic, they can sing(in their minds only). It cracks me up. I don't tell 'em though, cuz if they think they are now singing in key, I'm not going to change their mind. Besides, they're having fun(and I can follow along). It's all good.

Well, if bad singers always sing flat... you tune flat and they're in tune! Perfectly logical.

 

[turf3]

Alto and bari eb parts have the same note locations on the staff as bass clef.

.

Yes, alto or bari can read off bass clef as if it were treble clef, mentally adding 3 sharps. UNLESS some doofus copyist has transposed the bass clef parts so they're reading in Eb, but in bass clef. And that whole mentally adding 3 sharps thing usually goes smoothly until you are playing a part with lots of flats or sharps in the key signature, with lots of naturals in the music, and double flats and double sharps everywhere. That's a mental workout. Or, playing bass clef parts on BASS sax.

 

[IamGroot]

Hmmm, Green Dolphin St in F? Hah, I see you are from Donna Lee territory, (sorry, terrible joke). In London, U.K. it's regularly played in Eb or C. Having played the song countless times, we alternate choruses Eb then C. I guess I should change to F&Db or Ab and F, just to try to keep things fresh. Another 'fun' thing is alternating Choruses in 4/4 & 3/4, tricky at first, but becomes 2nd nature after a while.

Back to alternative tuning, the late great Allen Holdsworth used alternative tuning often. I remember Roy Babbington telling me he picked up Allen's guitar once to play a blues or something, he was quite surprised.
But his tuning didn't have any affect on how others tuned their instruments, basically pitch used is always A440.
As you mentioned perfect pitch, which I have, I can confirm that playing a detuned instrument really messes with my head, and as for 'keyboardists' that use the transpose button, either respect music and yourself enough to learn how to play, or.................Actually, having said that, there are songwriters that are 'pianistically' challenged. Gilbert O'Sullivan can on play in a couple of keys and had a special piano built that would drop the pitch by a 3rd or something. Still A440, but after a few tuning shifts A440ish I would guess. I would still say there is no reason not to become musically literate, especially with all the resources available online.

Anyway, for reference, Allen and Roy played together on the Soft Machine album Bundles, and others.

Over in a former colony, Green Dolphin Street is usually in C unless cued otherwise. D gives a nice ostinato on DB.

A "keyboardist" doesnt necessarily reach for the transpose button. After all, Eb is easier than E on keys. But if guitarists detune for the evening, you might as well go with the flow. Simple songs in "C"and "G" become concert B and F# and with keys transposition involves more than shifting your hands a fret. Its just working smart.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Over in a former colony, Green Dolphin Street is usually in C unless cued otherwise. D gives a nice ostinato on DB.

A "keyboardist" doesnt necessarily reach for the transpose button. After all, Eb is easier than E on keys. But if guitarists detune for the evening, you might as well go with the flow. Simple songs in "C"and "G" become concert B and F# and with keys transposition involves more than shifting your hands a fret. Its just working smart.

Where's the transpose button, can't seem to find it on my Hammond, Fender Rhodes, Acoustic piano, etc.

I do see what you're saying, and if it works for you, all well and good, and yes, F# and B aren't exactly favoured keys for Keyboard players. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me, a transposed keyboard is not an option even if the option is available.

 

[IamGroot]

Where's the transpose button, can't seem to find it on my Hammond, Fender Rhodes, Acoustic piano, etc.

I do see what you're saying, and if it works for you, all well and good, and yes, F# and B aren't exactly favoured keys for Keyboard players. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me, a transposed keyboard is not an option even if the option is available.

I hear you.
My piano instructor got really bent out of shape when I transposed JBS Prelude in C major. She has perfect pitch.

 

[cnltb]

Sounds like a bunch of people found it rather difficult to play in the keys asked for?

 

[Leonid Nidis]

Idiots,jam is about including people and fun.I imagine how bad it was,i once played intro of 2 songs half a step and a step apart from the rest of the band(I transposed and the rest didnt tune like the original) and it was horrible.

 

[blue4]

St Louis must be really different from the rest of the music scene because most jams here take place at some sort of bar or large party and consist of amateurs, hobbyists and cover band veterans. Not a lot of jazz standards, orchestra chops aren't usually on display, and very rarely is there any kind of horn section. It's kind of done for fun, and it usually brings in an ok crowd. It has more in common with karaoke then with a professional gig. It's not ready for prime time players having a great time while their spouses have a few drinks and shake their heads. There used to be a music store over in Illinois that did a bluegrass acoustic jam once a month. It was open to all levels of musicians, beginners encouraged. The jams seem to be much more complicated in other places if sight reading, alternative tunings and such come onto play. That seems to defeat the entire purpose IMO.

 

[Spidey2112]

... there's no valid reason to play tuned to anything other than standard A440 pitch without notifying anyone interested in sitting in.

Winner, winner... chicken dinner!

 

[Mushroo]

Untrue.

I'm just describing what I learned in music school, and what we used at Alfred publishing: Chords on a capo'd guitar are named relative to the capo (not concert pitch). I see this is also the house style at Acoustic Guitar magazine:

"CAPOS
If a capo is used, a Roman numeral indicates the fret where the capo should be placed. The standard notation and tablature is written as if the capo were the nut of the guitar. For instance, a tune capoed anywhere up the neck and played using key-of-G chord shapes and fingerings will be written in the key of G. Likewise, open strings held down by the capo are written as open strings."

http://acousticguitar.com/acoustic-guitar-notation-guide/

 

[lfmn16]

If you're hosting a jam / open mic, there's no valid reason to play tuned to anything other than standard A440 pitch without notifying anyone interested in sitting in. No one is wrong to assume that a guitar is tuned to A 440. That is standard after all. If you're doing something different, it's on you to notify people.

As far as standard practice for calling notes/chords by their transposed names vs actual sounding pitch, I've seen it done both ways. What may be standard practice in an orchestra is not the same in an open jam.

As someone else said however, communication is important. If you draw out dimensions for a carpenter and fail to tell him that you measured everything with your special ruler that starts at 1/2" instead of 0", don't be surprised when everything they make you is 1/2" longer than what you expected.

I agree 100%.

Maybe instead of whining about it on a thread, a calm discussion with the host would alleviate any future issues. I see it in bands and at work - people that will complain all day about something, but won't spend 2 minutes trying to find a solution.

 

[Mushroo]

Also, do people not check their tuning any more? Seems the entire trainwreck could have been easily avoided by simply asking the guitarist, "can I hear your E?"

Assuming you don't need to tune to the other musicians in the band is an incredibly dangerous assumption.

 

[Bass Viking]

We had a (short lived) mid week jam here and the three guitarists/singers who hosted it always tuned to E flat. Most guitar players had trouble but coming from a lot of blues i just tuned accordingly and gopher it. After a while it became apparent they were doing this to confuse the people who showed up to play. This became apparent when those who were not confused by the tuning got less than cordial treatment. Once i realized what the deal was i quit going.

So much for being inclusive!

 

[klejst]

How punk of them.

 

[2F/2F]

Maybe in a BAND, but when random people are joining in at an OPEN JAM, you are indeed a moron if you don't clue them in that E is not E.

The OP tuned down. It isn't like the band was keeping their tuning a secret! You play with them, you tune down a half step, and listen to the called chords as if you were not. Seems to me to be the best way to do it in such a situation.

 

[mmon77]

The OP tuned down. It isn't like the band was keeping their tuning a secret! You play with them, you tune down a half step, and listen to the called chords as if you were not. Seems to me to be the best way to do it in such a situation.

So those two piano players who had issues should have just tuned down a half step?

Being able to transpose on the fly is a very useful skill, and also a pretty advanced one. I would never expect people at an open jam night to be able to do that.