The host band ruined the jam.

[LBS-bass]

This is really a nothing burger. Just tune down a half step and go with it.

I think the point was that people got on stage with instruments in standard tuning because no one told them they needed to be tuned down.

 

[Callused Finger]

It's at that point I play open strings and use the tuning keys to approximate the right notes.

 

[LBS-bass]

True, that can be valid in some circumstances. But whose vocals? It's not something that all vocalists would want or need. Clearly it was done for the convenience of the host band, which, again, shouldn't be the focus here. They're supposed to be facilitators of others here; it's not about them.

Exactly. This is such a myth. You don't automatically gain vocal range by tuning down. What if a song has very low notes in the melody? You might make it easier for someone on individual songs, but as a singer sometimes I'd rather have songs transposed up to make them easier, not down.

 

[Ostie]

I have had this problem with the use of a capo. The guitarists puts it on the second fret and then does an E standard fingering... calling the chord E. No, it IS F# not E. I do not agree with any re-tuning being called anything other than the real note/chord. The bass does not use a capo and I still need to know the "real" key of the song... (BTW, I hate Eb, but then I am a fan of standard tuning on a 4 string...). In any case, I find this sort of attitude to be self-serving and rather amateur...

I'm with ya. But if a band does tune down, for cripes sake tell me before soundcheck.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

True, that can be valid in some circumstances. But whose vocals? It's not something that all vocalists would want or need. Clearly it was done for the convenience of the host band, which, again, shouldn't be the focus here. They're supposed to be facilitators of others here; it's not about them.

It's not that downtuning is a bad thing; you and I both could think--and have thought--of perfectly valid reasons to do it, in certain contexts. Making it harder for jammers to hang in an open jam, though, IS kind of a bad thing, which is why it's kind of a bad idea here.

The host band - fronted by the owner.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The host band - fronted by the owner.

And there's the problem right there!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

And there's the problem right there!

They should have communicated better that they're tuned down a half step.

 

[DanGroove]

I play that part in the middle of the neck, whether in E or E flat, and I grace or slide into the 5 and 3 at the end of the riff. I wouldn't play open strings on the riff myself, but I appreciate the commentary on it. I also play 5 strings in general.

Only open string I played on it is the low E or Eb, but not having to fret that root in between the licks made it a lot easier.

 

[LBS-bass]

Only open string I played on it is the low E or Eb, but not having to fret that root in between the licks made it a lot easier.

That's why I won't use a fiver for this song, because it loses so much when you don't have that open string to drone on and it's a lot harder to play.

 

[lat]

Don't feel bad. I should probably get an award for getting the most blank stares from the audience when I think I've cracked a joke.

I'd be a very close 2nd...

 

[Steamdonkey]

I sometimes wonder if the bands tuning a half step down to accommodate a singer performing outside their range of ability ever bother at least trying the material in standard pitch...or the key the song was written/intended to be performed in. Of all the pervasive, lazy behaviors that exist in cover-band land, the half step down thing takes the cake.

I never played in a band 1/2 step down till my current situation (covers and originals) Took me a minute to get used to it, but I don't mind at all and changing tunings is a 2 minute deal if you need to go std. It's true that some do it because of vocal range, but there's another aspect. As a lifelong vocalist and working bassist/vocalist for the past 15 give or take, It is also about larynx fatigue if your band plays several gigs per week, which ours does. I am a higher-end baritone, so I have plenty of range, but some tunes take me toward my upper clear and confident limit. No problem two, three gigs in a row, but when it's five or six and some are doubles I'm glad to be 1/2 step down. Less stress and the crowd does not really notice, if the tip jar is any indication.

 

[FenderB]

I can easily play in Eb, so practice is irrelevant. It's all about the availability, or lack thereof, of notes that you can play. In Eb the lowest root you can play is pretty high in pitch. It can be done, but for certain songs (Superstition, for example) it leaves something to be desired.

Would you please explain the third sentence to me, "In Eb the lowest root you can play is pretty high in pitch". Is that because you don't have a lower Eb on the E string so the lowest you can go is the Eb on the A string? No intention of hijacking this thread I just want to make sure I understand. Thanks.

 

[ThunderV]

It amazes me how this concept confuses so many.......I was in a band where I suggested this because our current singer was really straining to sing most of the tunes. The next week, the guitarist came back and was tuned down a half step, but playing everything sharp on his guitar. When I attempted to explain that you tune the guitar down, but play in the same position as you would if it were tuned standard.....he gave me a ten mile stare, then asked me how he was supposed to practice with the original recordings if he was tuned down a half step......it was at that point where I punched myself in the nuts.

 

[CGremlin]

What if a song has very low notes in the melody?

And then there are some songs like "The Star-Spangled Banner" that have both low and high notes. The vocalist is just hosed in that situation if they don't have the range.

I've never played an open-mic, but I had lots of experience in pit orchestras where we'd have to change on the fly to accommodate a vocalist that wasn't feeling well. The MD often called something like "down three half-steps" right before the next tune. The first couple of times it happens, it's kind of jarring (there's no time to retune), but you get used to it, and it's great practice for your sight-transposition skills. Pit orchestra work is also great for learning *all* of your keys on sight, because you WILL see them in a score at some point. "Who the hell wrote this in Cb major!?"

 

[MichelD]

"he gave me a ten mile stare, then asked me how he was supposed to practice with the original recordings if he was tuned down a half step......"



I just about spewed coffee all over the keyboard.

 

[mrjim123]

Would you please explain the third sentence to me, "In Eb the lowest root you can play is pretty high in pitch". Is that because you don't have a lower Eb on the E string so the lowest you can go is the Eb on the A string? No intention of hijacking this thread I just want to make sure I understand. Thanks.

Correct. It's songs like that (key is Eb) that almost convinced me to buy a 5 string.

I'm thinking of a jam where I show up, tune up in standard tuning, hit the stage and THEN find out that everybody else is tuned to Eb. I just as soon not have to down tune while everybody else is trying to figure out what song is going to be played, what key, etc.

 

[Steamdonkey]

I always figured SRV tuned down a half step to keep the damned harmonica players away

LOL! Almost spit out my coffee. I know a and have played with some VERY good harp players and love it when our current associate shows up. Of course he knows exactly what he is doing, good mic, good Quilter amp etc. But trust me, I have seen the worst, Including one poor schmuck who didn't have any idea about which harp goes with what key. Just blow spit into this little thing and ka-blooey! yer a moosishien! Although I was playing bass only at this jam, I am a singer with natural harmonic and relative pitch awareness. I'm pretty my face twitched throughout that whole experience. Wasn't MY jam so I hadda just suffer through two or three songs...

+

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Sounds like the "leader"/venue owner is just using this as an easy gig. Hosting a jam is a skill in and of itself. Like Johnny Carson, the goal is not to look good, but to make the guests look good. And refusing to tune to E? That's just lazy and/or stupid.

My sentiments exactly. When hosting a jam use standard tuning. I will also say that in my tenure as a professional touring musician I couldn't believe the level of 'un-awareness' (for lack of a better term) of many of the musicians I met. This is an example of being clueless and a terrible host.

In college, when I was in jazz band, the band leader would have us practice songs in different keys. Just before the song started, he would call out the key. It was an excellent exercise in transposing, and helped me to understand the total structure of the song a lot better.

 

[Rabidhamster]

If someone told me one key and started playing in surprise drop tune, I would certainly take the mic from them and inform the audience they don't know how to tune their instrument.

If you want to play the make someone look bad game, two can play that.

 

[Dr_Benway]

I sometimes wonder if the bands tuning a half step down to accommodate a singer performing outside their range of ability ever bother at least trying the material in standard pitch...or the key the song was written/intended to be performed in. Of all the pervasive, lazy behaviors that exist in cover-band land, the half step down thing takes the cake.

I don't think there's anything wrong with changing the key to a song. I do it all the time... But we leave the instruments tuned to standard tuning. I have a hipshot drop D tuner on my bass, so I will use that if need be. I don't actually change keys to compensate for range (although I do change Walking on the Moon from Dm to Bm). It's a huge drop, but I like the way it sounds and it's easier to add bass harmonics).

I think the whole cover band mindset that you need to do the song in the key it was intended to be performed in, is a load of nonsense.

But there is a big difference between transposing the key and just tuning down and pretending you're still in E. That is lazy and ********.