The Soundgear Club

[lovethegrowl]

Really??????? This is news to me. I have used Fender basses since mid-60's (too many to count) and I have NEVER experienced (or know anyone who has) this "s-shaped twist in time" phenomenon. Too much or too little relief, broken / stripped truss rods... sure, but no s-shaped twist to the neck. Currently my oldest Fender is a '79 P with tons of use and the neck is still straight as the day it came home with me. I literally cannot remember the last time it needed adjusting. I live in the mid-west and gig year round in everything from 100+ degree summers through below zero winters.
Oh, I also have a '06 SR505 with low action that hasn't had the neck touched since switching the factory strings to chromes shortly after the initial purchase, it has absolutely no buzz (ever).

You haven't mentioned what environment you store you bass in or how you transport it. I'm thinking something more than just environmental or weather changes may be the cause of your fret buzzing issues. You might want to seek out a different luthier for a second opinion.

If you are the original owner you might want to contact Ibanez about the instability of the neck.

According too Mo, if your action isn't low, the s shaped twist isn't an issue. I thought mine was low, according to him its med-high.

When my luthier first told me about the phenomenon regarding Squier/Fender necks, he wasn't too enthusiastic about the notion of putting too much work into the Squier--what I thought could be my 'dream bass'. (The truth is, that basswood & ebanol suck as tomewoods! They absorb the sound, Jesus I wanna break that bass.)

That following weekend he delivered my basses, as he performed in a C&W band at Pappy & Harriet's in Pioneer Town. At P&H's I told him about my thread & the following day (05-19-14) he clarified his position, getting the last word on the thread. I can't give you an URL but I can give you a heads up on it, so you can find it. It is under hardware & setup section, the title is "Squier Truss rods". I will give you a "Hi"!

 

[lovethegrowl]

Really??????? This is news to me. I have used Fender basses since mid-60's (too many to count) and I have NEVER experienced (or know anyone who has) this "s-shaped twist in time" phenomenon. Too much or too little relief, broken / stripped truss rods... sure, but no s-shaped twist to the neck. Currently my oldest Fender is a '79 P with tons of use and the neck is still straight as the day it came home with me. I literally cannot remember the last time it needed adjusting. I live in the mid-west and gig year round in everything from 100+ degree summers through below zero winters.
Oh, I also have a '06 SR505 with low action that hasn't had the neck touched since switching the factory strings to chromes shortly after the initial purchase, it has absolutely no buzz (ever).

You haven't mentioned what environment you store you bass in or how you transport it. I'm thinking something more than just environmental or weather changes may be the cause of your fret buzzing issues. You might want to seek out a different luthier for a second opinion.

If you are the original owner you might want to contact Ibanez about the instability of the neck.

Have you evrr played a 6 string Ibanez? Paper thin neck front to back, like a Rickenbacker.

No I am not the original owner of the Ibanez. I wouldn't pay top dollar for that piece of crap.

I live in a trailer 35 miles north of Palm Springs, not a hermetically sealed vault. The bass is transported 3 times per month to performances in a gig bag in my car.

The notion of "dry heat" out here is a myth. We had one beautiful month in June. Then "monsoon" season set in and has remained for 2 months. (Overcast, humid 80s & 90s, not dry 100s, threats of thundershowers that rarely come.) People out here say it wasn't like that 20-30 years ago.

Last September I had the bass fret leveled & set up for my first gig (in 40 years). Less than a week before the event I got the bass back & it was loaded with fret buzzes.

When I called the local Luthier (not Mo) he said, " I thought you're not an aggressive player!" I am not. He took the bass back, worked on it (blaming the humidity) & when I got it back, more buzzing. He sat on the bass for 2 days making 4 or 5 adjustments, telling me that it keeps changing.

Finally Monday September 27th it came back totally free of buzzing. We had a dress rehearsal (7pm to 9:30pm) everything was fine. Then the clouds rolled in. At 1 am I did some cramming, several fretbuzzes. By bedtime (4:30am) lots of fretbuzzes.

In May I had Mo install a new nut & Kahler bridge. Why? To get the strings away from the neck edges so the c & b strings aren't always pulled & pushed off. This another peeve about the Ibanez. Thanx largely to a fretboard radius of 12" and the strings being so damn close to the edges it was unplayable. Even Mo concurred. Not to mention that a 6 string neck should have a 20" radius, not 12".

I got the bass back with the new nut & bridge on 05/18/14. On Monday (5/20) I played it, & it was loaded with buzzes. I called Mo, he said, " You must be more aggressive with the bass than you said!" Thursday (5/23) all buzzes were gone but one.

I want to stop using TIs, but they are dead enough (along with the SR406's disgracefully dull active preamp) that the fretbuzzes aren't too audible during actual performances.

I started a thread about this. Hardware, setup, etc. Ibanez necks. I will give a shout out again

Again, Marcus Miller bass makes the others look like toys. The nut & bridge are perfect, & position the outer strings so that they stay on the damn neck while playing. I thought the 7.5" radius would be too much, but on this skinny neck it's a perfect fit--so easy to play. The active electronics gimme the MM sound, & tone woods make for a definitive attack. The bass has 2 things it needs: easy release battery compartments, & a balance control & one volume control instead of two volume controls.

Conversely, look at the Ibanez' lack of playable: nut/bridge outer string position, noodley neck, all that need pricey tweeking. Then consider the super dull electronics that have to be replaced or bypassed. Then look at the price!

I have always avoided Fender because they are so hackneyed, I am sick of seeing the Fender headstock, the bodies are large & obtrusive. (I much prefer the sleekness & elegance of the Ibanez.) In HS I bought a Rickenbacker in strict avoidance of Fender. I loved it until performing live with it. Then it got lost & buried in the mix--too light. I had to get a P bass. Now......history repeating itself.

 

[lovethegrowl]

Really??????? This is news to me. I have used Fender basses since mid-60's (too many to count) and I have NEVER experienced (or know anyone who has) this "s-shaped twist in time" phenomenon. Too much or too little relief, broken / stripped truss rods... sure, but no s-shaped twist to the neck. Currently my oldest Fender is a '79 P with tons of use and the neck is still straight as the day it came home with me. I literally cannot remember the last time it needed adjusting. I live in the mid-west and gig year round in everything from 100+ degree summers through below zero winters.
Oh, I also have a '06 SR505 with low action that hasn't had the neck touched since switching the factory strings to chromes shortly after the initial purchase, it has absolutely no buzz (ever).

You have never had these basses "touched" and your action is low? Most of these basses come from the factory requiring a fret leveling/dressing. Fender is notorious for uneven frets. Ibanez, less so, but still factory basses require fret leveling for those wanting medium to low action.

I thought my action was low too, until my luthier pointed out it was actually medium high. His own bass is set low Victor Wooten style--strings nearly touching frets.

 

[lovethegrowl]

The name of that old thread was: "Moisture absorbing materials for guitar cases" I gave a shout out. Look at tb user immigrant's post. It's under setup.

 

[David A. Davis]

@lovethegrowl, what is the neck on your sr406 made of and how many pieces? I have an SR756 and was able to set the action stupid low. Yes, I do my own set ups. I learned set ups very early on, wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[lovethegrowl]

@lovethegrowl, what is the neck on your sr406 made of and how many pieces? I have an SR756 and was able to set the action stupid low. Yes, I do my own set ups. I learned set ups very early on, wouldn't have it any other way.

Maple, 5 pieces, ebony fretboard.

Yeah I can do action & intonation. But two truss rods? I could make it worse.

 

[Technotitclan]

Lovethegrowl, 3 things come to mind here. First before doing anything else get different strings. I noticed you had more negative things to say about the strings than anything else.

Second, try a different luthier. Not saying your guy is bad, just saying I've seen a few stories like yours where the same guy constantly couldn't dial in a bass but after trying someone else all was right with the world. Your tale of fret leveling would have made me look for someone else.

Third, your neck is maple. I've seen numerous places that maple needs to be properly sealed. I'm wondering if there's some sort of failure in the finish of the neck that is allowing excessive moisture to get absorbed. I've witness maple change into all kinds of shapes with the introduction of water. Maybe you just need a refinish on the neck.

 

[Stevorebob]

Have you evrr played a 6 string Ibanez? Paper thin neck front to back, like a Rickenbacker.

No I am not the original owner of the Ibanez. I wouldn't pay top dollar for that piece of crap.

I live in a trailer 35 miles north of Palm Springs, not a hermetically sealed vault. The bass is transported 3 times per month to performances in a gig bag in my car.

The notion of "dry heat" out here is a myth. We had one beautiful month in June. Then "monsoon" season set in and has remained for 2 months. (Overcast, humid 80s & 90s, not dry 100s, threats of thundershowers that rarely come.) People out here say it wasn't like that 20-30 years ago.

Last September I had the bass fret leveled & set up for my first gig (in 40 years). Less than a week before the event I got the bass back & it was loaded with fret buzzes.

When I called the local Luthier (not Mo) he said, " I thought you're not an aggressive player!" I am not. He took the bass back, worked on it (blaming the humidity) & when I got it back, more buzzing. He sat on the bass for 2 days making 4 or 5 adjustments, telling me that it keeps changing.

Finally Monday September 27th it came back totally free of buzzing. We had a dress rehearsal (7pm to 9:30pm) everything was fine. Then the clouds rolled in. At 1 am I did some cramming, several fretbuzzes. By bedtime (4:30am) lots of fretbuzzes.

In May I had Mo install a new nut & Kahler bridge. Why? To get the strings away from the neck edges so the c & b strings aren't always pulled & pushed off. This another peeve about the Ibanez. Thanx largely to a fretboard radius of 12" and the strings being so damn close to the edges it was unplayable. Even Mo concurred. Not to mention that a 6 string neck should have a 20" radius, not 12".

I got the bass back with the new nut & bridge on 05/18/14. On Monday (5/20) I played it, & it was loaded with buzzes. I called Mo, he said, " You must be more aggressive with the bass than you said!" Thursday (5/23) all buzzes were gone but one.

I want to stop using TIs, but they are dead enough (along with the SR406's disgracefully dull active preamp) that the fretbuzzes aren't too audible during actual performances.

I started a thread about this. Hardware, setup, etc. Ibanez necks. I will give a shout out again

Again, Marcus Miller bass makes the others look like toys. The nut & bridge are perfect, & position the outer strings so that they stay on the damn neck while playing. I thought the 7.5" radius would be too much, but on this skinny neck it's a perfect fit--so easy to play. The active electronics gimme the MM sound, & tone woods make for a definitive attack. The bass has 2 things it needs: easy release battery compartments, & a balance control & one volume control instead of two volume controls.

Conversely, look at the Ibanez' lack of playable: nut/bridge outer string position, noodley neck, all that need pricey tweeking. Then consider the super dull electronics that have to be replaced or bypassed. Then look at the price!

I have always avoided Fender because they are so hackneyed, I am sick of seeing the Fender headstock, the bodies are large & obtrusive. (I much prefer the sleekness & elegance of the Ibanez.) In HS I bought a Rickenbacker in strict avoidance of Fender. I loved it until performing live with it. Then it got lost & buried in the mix--too light. I had to get a P bass. Now......history repeating itself.

Sorry to hear this. Sounds to me like the the SR406 just isn't right for you. Maybe it's the bass; maybe it's your climate; maybe it's your tech; maybe it's your expectations. All the work put into your bass might have been better invested in a new bass.

I've had no issues with the jatoba-bubinga necks on my SR505 and SR605 or the maple neck on my GWB35.

 

[lovethegrowl]

Lovethegrowl, 3 things come to mind here. First before doing anything else get different strings. I noticed you had more negative things to say about the strings than anything else.

Second, try a different luthier. Not saying your guy is bad, just saying I've seen a few stories like yours where the same guy constantly couldn't dial in a bass but after trying someone else all was right with the world. Your tale of fret leveling would have made me look for someone else.

Third, your neck is maple. I've seen numerous places that maple needs to be properly sealed. I'm wondering if there's some sort of failure in the finish of the neck that is allowing excessive moisture to get absorbed. I've witness maple change into all kinds of shapes with the introduction of water. Maybe you just need a refinish on the neck.

If you had read carefully there were TWO techs involved. One, a local Yucca Valley one, who did the fret leveling. The second, a highly reputable Nordstrands tech--60 miles aaway--who installed the Kahler bridge & new nut. Precisely the same thing happened each time.

Thomastik-Infield Jazz Roinds have--by far-- the lowest tension of any string. Just under 180 pounds for a 6 string set. More tension with hex core strings will exacerbate the problem. Remember that the neck is wide to accommodate 6 strings (wider than your 5 string) & it is commensurately shallow. I am inclined to think the neck proportions are the culprit.

The strings are not the single biggest problem. The veiled, dull, over designed active electronics are the worst. They are so smooth sounding you can't hear the piano tones or growl of round wounds.

I can't tell if the pickups are good, they sonic footprint is too veiled by the shoddy, over designed, unbypassable onboard preamp. (Because the whole audio path travels through a complicated ircuit board, I can't bypass it myself.) One pickup is broken & I can't replace it with another brand because the soap box cavities are only 4.1". Most standard pickups are a little wider.

Furthermore, Ibanez CS is absolutely disgraceful. They adamantly will not provide information about discontinued items, & that should be food for thought for those contemplating a new Ibanez purchase. If it wasn't for TBF I wouldn't know if my DX6s are passive or active pickups.

By writing that this particular bass may not be right for me, kind of implies that it's right for others, & just seems absurd. Who wants these problems?

I will not buy another bass, I am dirt poor & had such high hopes. The SR406 looks like a Fodera, but better, & with a guitar being such an uncomplicated instrument (really not much to it when you think about it) there is no logical reason why it should be so problematic-especially for the $900 price in 1999, which is maybe $1200-1300 in today's dollars.

 

[Technotitclan]

I apologize for missing that you saw two techs. I hate it when people skim posts and make recommendations that have already been covered had they read the whole thing. I try to read everything all the way through before commenting.

Agreed on the pre. Ibanez preamps are meh at very best. I have gone full passive on mine (though with different pickups) and did enjoy it. I know there are some folk on TB that are handy enough with circuits to design a bypass for the pre but i do understand what you mean about it not being possible. I've wanted to do a bypass for a long time but because every single thing goes into the board it make it hard. I would suggest just pull the pre completely out just to try passive.

As far as pickups.... Ibanez does make upgrading a pain due to the unique size of the soapbars they use. I got around this issue by installing jazz pups in the cavities then putting empty soapbar covers over top of them. It worked great and really opens up a world of possibilities. Check out these links for more info on what I'm talking about.

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-soundgear-club-part-4.1020843/page-22#post-15752163
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/jazz-pickup-installed-on-bass-with-soapbar.1034074/

Part of the reason I suggest different strings is due to the super low tension. My thinking is that is you use more robust strings its going to force more effort from the truss rods and maybe by the rods being tighter it may create more stability. I have an SR400 from 1993 (first year the SR400 was offered) It has a paper thin itty bitty neck. I used the lightest gauge strings on it of my favorite brand at the time and had frequent neck issues. I had to adjust the neck so often that I stopped putting the truss rod cover back on cuz I'd just be taking it off again within a week. I tried heavier strings and it seems to have stabilized. and it only needs adjustment every 6 months or so.

Honestly I believe that the 90's were a very hit or mis time for Ibanez. The focus on super thin necks is kind of a recipe for disaster as your seeing with this bass. Since then they have started leaving a little more heft on the necks and started using stiffer woods and they have gotten way better in the stability department, unfortunately that doesn't really help you now. You mentioned that it couldn't possibly be the right instrument for someone else but I'd like to mention that some people love high action and that would very possibly sold this issue. But these are just my thoughts. as always YMMV.

 

[Kamrin]

94 SR1305.
Previous owner installed a set of EMG 40tw's and BQC system in it, love it.

 

[lovethegrowl]

Very nice looking

 

[lovethegrowl]

Those EMGs I guess are too big for my cavities. If I have to route out bigger holes, I'll go with music man pickups.

 

[lovethegrowl]

Carol Kaye has an 90s SR 7--something. She digs it cause of its meck-through body design

 

[lovethegrowl]

I performed lost Friday using the SR 406 with the Thomastik infeld strings. I have to say, with that environment, that ensemble, with those strings, using my nice cabinet Goliath III, the sound I got wasn't bad. No audible fretbuzzes playing live with those strings, & the dry weather helped.

Today I played my narrow necked converted 5 to 6 string Squier, & that does provide quite an impressive, robust contrast (considering I was using Hibeams & Carvin j99a single coils). When the Hibeams go dead, they will be replaced with Lo Riders (or similar) & it should be even better.

A great deal of my dissatisfaction is a result of having two basses doing the job of one. And none of those sixers get a super deep sound. I wanted to sell the Squier, but that's too good a bass too. I really have too many basses & I'm way over budget. That said, lots of bassist would envy the variety I have, so I'll just use two 6 stringers.

 

[Idle Plucker]

I'm really sorry you're having so many problems, and there's nothing more frustrating than having two instruments that don't quite do the job on their own. I haven't joined in earlier because I didn't feel I could offer anything useful (other than sympathy) not being a 6-string player. I have had similar problems with 2 Ibanez instruments, a GWB35 and SR505F, both fretless with ebonol fingerboards. As soon as the temperature/humidity changed (including when a venue filled up) the action height changed, on one occasion leaving me half way through a set with an unplayable instrument. Had to do a truss rod adjustment on stage with that one, the last thing you want.
I started off thinking that the necks were faulty, but when the SR started doing it as well (bought that after the GWB hoping for an improvement) I decided that it had to be the ebonol fingerboard causing the problem, expanding at a different rate to the wood and causing the neck to behave like a bi-metal strip. Incredibly frustrating, because they're both great-sounding instruments.
I don't think there's an easy solution to this. I used to set up the basses with an exaggerated neck relief to allow for a change during gigs, but it still caught me out sometimes, and didn't help my left hand technique with having varying pressure requirements depending on the state of the neck. I keep thinking about getting the ebonol fingerboard replaced on the SR, but it would cost nearly as much as the value of the bass to have a luthier do it. In the end I've had to move on, bought an SRF705 that really does what I need, but that doesn't help you.
Maybe going for a bigger neck relief curve, on the assumption it's going to move when the weather changes? Not sure how long a double truss rod 6-string takes to stabilize after an adjustment, that might be a factor as well.
Sorry I'm not being much help. Hope it works out.

 

[lovethegrowl]

So I am not the only one! Good to have someone validate plain & simple reality & not say, "oh I never heard of such a thing. Maybe it's not the instrument maybe it's you". Yes, these necks change literally in the course of an hour. You have to experience it to believe it.

I referred to my Squier as having an ebanol fretboard. Ebanol is an artificial man made ebony. I thought Ibanez uses real ebony.

Regarding "tone woods" I have recently made the following observation:

a) when plucking the strings of my Fender Marcus Miller Jazz bass (unplugged) all four strings are remarkably hard loud and clear. I heard that ash & maple are hard bright tone woods, & they really are.

b) When I pluck the strings of the Modified Squier Jazz bass (also unplugged) the G is nearly as hard and clear. The D is less audible, A far less audible. The E & B are almost inaudible. Those tone woods are basswood & ebanol (fretboard).

Both basses have an identical shape (the Squier does have a wider neck) but there can't be a more dramatic demonstration of differences that tone woods make than hearing these solid body electric basses played acoustically.

The basswood Squier is a mellow sounding Jazz bass, & it is kind of impressive. But the attack, particularly of the lower notes is not definitive. I was warned that basswood absorbs the sound & produces a "feathery attack". I assumed that the differences of the woods would be subtle, & the sonic footprint of the pickups would predominate. I was quite wrong.

I don't know about ebanol's sonic characteristics at all. Ebony is hard than rosewood (so I hear). But you wouldn't know by doing the test on the SR 406. I am wondering if it may be ebanol too, & may contribute to softening the quality of the attack of the Ibanez.

Well at least when my neck changes you don't hear the fret buzzes in a live performance.

 

[Idle Plucker]

Ibanez used ebonol on some of the GWB35 basses, and I think on some of the more expensive ones as well .
My first one was ebonol, but it was accidentally damaged beyond repair, and the replacement is a newer model with a genuine ebony fingerboard. No problems with this one, or any of my other Ibby basses with wooden fingerboards. .
HUGE difference in tone between the ebonol and ebony fingerboards on my GWBs. The ebony one is much brighter, even with the same maple necks and basswood bodies.

 

[lovethegrowl]

Unfortunately, mine sounds like ebanol. That might explain a lot.

 

[Stinkoman20xx]

I just picked up an older neck through 1206 for $499 at guitar center. I was searching for a teal 506 and spotted that. My first good bass was a 406 and haved own a newer style 506 and a 1306 which was one of the best basses I ever owned and hope to find one again someday.