The Sushi Box FX Secret Society

[Ryan L.]

I’ve got a lot of sounds these days. My band does everything from older country to modern pop, so having several different “core” tones works well for me. The DWX just further expands on that for me. I’ll be building a preset on my Helix with it as the “amp” in one of the Helix’s effects loops.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

Light we

Well I just went down a rabbit hole looking at class D amp options. It got weird, and it got weird fast. Amps may happen eventually, but they will not happen soon.

I Imagine you could turn the whole tube amp industry upside down if you figure out the tube power stage like iod pre paired with a class d amp this would allow a lite weight amp that can have the full tube amp heft. This has been something I know I harass you about constantly but it's been something I've dreamed about for years. I just don't have the skill or knowledge on how to build or design it myself If I did believe me I would already have done so years ago. My back just can't handle lugging a svt or mesa 400+ around sadly even tho they sound incredible. My current pedal board gets close by using the tube power simulation on the torpedo cab m+ but it's still lacking something.

 

[4Mal]

... or you could just purchase a Straight Ahead from Jay Ganz and call it good. I put many, many gigs on one of those front ended by a custom/DIY preamp based on 1 side of an F2B and it was pretty sweet, uber portable. These days my power is a 1 side of a qsc 1804. It is racked up with my PA stuff I'll probably go back to a Straight Ahead at some point when I see the need for a stand alone amp.

I find the front end portion just has a ton more to do with my tone... YMMY and all that.

 

[4Mal]

I’ve got a lot of sounds these days. My band does everything from older country to modern pop, so having several different “core” tones works well for me. The DWX just further expands on that for me. I’ll be building a preset on my Helix with it as the “amp” in one of the Helix’s effects loops.

I'd be interested to get some detail on the layout of that patch. ... and on your impressions of the DWx as well.

 

[4Mal]

@Sushi Box FX
What's going to happen if I hit my soon to be built Finally with Phantom power? I recall ordering the Lightning boy version.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

... or you could just purchase a Straight Ahead from Jay Ganz and call it good. I put many, many gigs on one of those front ended by a custom/DIY preamp based on 1 side of an F2B and it was pretty sweet, uber portable. These days my power is a 1 side of a qsc 1804. It is racked up with my PA stuff I'll probably go back to a Straight Ahead at some point when I see the need for a stand alone amp.

I find the front end portion just has a ton more to do with my tone... YMMY and all that.

I'm already running a custom Gss sumo power amp on my board ran thru a verellen meatsmoke pre , two notes torpedo cab m+ with the tube power simulation,and a deep dish tube comp it's really good but if it didn't weigh a ton I'd still take a svt over it for that tube power and massive transformer. My back just can't handle it so my board is my only option atm. Granted I'm far pickier then most and I'm sure my setup would be more then enough to satisfy most guys. It's kind of the same as the guys preferring the slam of a lead sled over class d. There are differences and pros and cons to both but how important are they to the player at the end of the day I'm like maybe 85% or more there so I can't complain too hard.

 

[Ryan L.]

I'd be interested to get some detail on the layout of that patch. ... and on your impressions of the DWx as well.

It basically starts like all my patches: Loop 1 at the start of the path, which includes my outboard pedals (Doc Lloyd PDR, C4, UltraWave Bass, Proton V4, Fluffy Kitten, and Genzler 4 on the Floor). The DWX is the second to last, right before a high/low cut block (set very modestly).

In between those two I fill in with the effects I use from the Helix—chorus, phaser, flanger, reverb, wah, etc etc.

It’s exactly how I use my YYZ (just replaced my 2112 DI with that for space reasons).

 

[Killing Floor]

... or you could just purchase a Straight Ahead from Jay Ganz and call it good.

Those are really sweet. You can even put one on a board if so inclined. 500/300W-ish and low cost but can be hard to find.
As an aside, I made air duct covers for my house using the exact same punched radiator screen from Lowe's that he uses on the top of his amp. He has good taste.

 

[Jim C]

Can I revisit the hand wired pedal option regarding performance?
It seems that amp designers and repair guys have been saying for years that there is no audible difference between SMT and hand wired. Not looking to start an argument but curious what you guys hear as a difference and why would it sound differently?
It's not like these boxes require high voltages or current handling like some of the older MI designs.

 

[bassbrad]

Can I revisit the hand wired pedal option regarding performance?
It seems that amp designers and repair guys have been saying for years that there is no audible difference between SMT and hand wired. Not looking to start an argument but curious what you guys hear as a difference and why would it sound differently?
It's not like these boxes require high voltages or current handling like some of the older MI designs.

...and since Squiers are just as good as Fenders may be better, why spend the money for a vintage beat up used up old Fender,
huh?

 

[NKBassman]

Can I revisit the hand wired pedal option regarding performance?
It seems that amp designers and repair guys have been saying for years that there is no audible difference between SMT and hand wired. Not looking to start an argument but curious what you guys hear as a difference and why would it sound differently?
It's not like these boxes require high voltages or current handling like some of the older MI designs.

My understanding is that the handwired option allows for use of higher spec components (capacitors and whatnot), which then allows the tube to be run at higher plate voltage, resulting in "better" sound.

 

[Jim C]

My understanding is that the handwired option allows for use of higher spec components (capacitors and whatnot), which then allows the tube to be run at higher plate voltage, resulting in "better" sound.

Thanks for this. Makes sense if there are better components in use although don't tell the guys from Mesa this...

 

[NKBassman]

Thanks for this. Makes sense if there are better components in use although don't tell the guys from Mesa this...

I think if you'd use the same type and spec components between different construction methods, you probably wouldn't hear a difference. But if you use better components and run the entire circuit at higher voltage, I don't think anyone would argue with you that there might be an audible difference in the output.

 

[gh0st42]

Thanks for this. Makes sense if there are better components in use although don't tell the guys from Mesa this...

I'd imagine if we're talking Amplifiers vs Pedals, things would be a bit different, as most of the amps already have access to higher voltage with the power being supplied by mains instead of a 9v or AC adapter.

Using high quality components on SMT for an amp that has access to more juice right from the get go, likely offsets the benefit to an extent of doing hand wired that we see in pedals.

That being said, if Andy over at Mesa Boogie every offered a small run of Hand Wired amps, I'd be selling a kidney, and all over that in a heartbeat!

 

[Jim C]

I'd imagine if we're talking Amplifiers vs Pedals, things would be a bit different, as most of the amps already have access to higher voltage with the power being supplied by mains instead of a 9v or AC adapter.

Using high quality components on SMT for an amp that has access to more juice right from the get go, likely offsets the benefit to an extent of doing hand wired that we see in pedals.

That being said, if Andy over at Mesa Boogie every offered a small run of Hand Wired amps, I'd be selling a kidney, and all over that in a heartbeat!

Agreed that hand made items are way cooler than machine made!
OTOH, I'm not sure what "better" means is regards to quality components other than tolerances. From what I've read, the SMT guys are able to hold tighter tolerances but I really am not educated enough in electronics to know the entire story.
Here is an interesting point of view about the topic as well as some quotes from other makers.
More curious to hear what Tim has to say about all of this though.
https://diyeffectspedals.com/surface-mount-vs-through-hole-components/

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Hey everyone, I promise I'm still alive. Sometimes I work on things.

CAUTION: technical nonsense, skip if it's boring

The great capacitor debate will continue forever, and that's fine. In my research (I'm not an expert, but did go to school for this) the best answer I have found is "it depends." In low voltage, typical pedal applications running at reasonable room temperatures, I would not expect a difference in performance between MLCC (SMD) and film caps. When tubes get involved you have high voltages and high temperatures, both of which will affect the permittivity of the capacitor, and a capacitor's permittivity is dependent on the capacitor's dielectric. Multi-layer ceramic is cheap and easy to make small which is why we use it for everything these days. But its permittivity varies more over temperature and voltage than film dielectrics, which would cause the capacitance to fluctuate, which in an audio situation means your frequency response is changing.

"But Nathan, you've been using MLCC in your tube pedals for years!" I absolutely have. In MLCC dielectrics there are a number of grades. NP0/C0G are the most stable across temperature and voltage, and consistency is close to if not as good as film caps in high voltage and high temperature situations. Generally what I was taught in my day job designing circuits is to go with "X7R or better" dielectrics. NP0 and C0G aren't available in all values and all voltage ratings, but X7R can cover just about everything. X7R are rated to be within 15% tolerance of the stated value up to 125 C, which is pretty darn good.

So why bother with film caps/handwired versions when X7R and NP0/C0G can do the job just as well? There are a couple reasons. 1) with the pandemic electronic component manufacturing got weird and I noticed increased lead times for a lot of my specialty (high voltage) MLCC, but film caps seemed to be unaffected. 2) the factory that does my SMD assembly considers high voltage MLCC a specialty component and doesn't always stock them, I have to keep emailing them to make sure they're going to keep them in stock. 3) as noted in one of the links above, soldering them down is more consistent. I'm a lot less likely to have a bad solder joint on a through-hole film cap than an MLCC. The board house that does my assembly is pretty good, but every now and then I have bad connections and have to reflow them.

Tl;dr - both are cool, but my SMD caps are rated for 250V, film are rated for 400V or 630V, so I can run higher plate voltage.

Good reading from a reputable source, if you're into that sort of thing: Selecting capacitors to minimize distortion in audio applications

 

[Sushi Box FX]

On a wildly unrelated note, Gondwana hit a snag. The IR module I've been designing around has almost doubled in price since I started working on it, so I'm halting development of Gondwana while I look at other options.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Oh another quick note about the capacitor debate, it seems like most (not all, of course) people that take sides have a conflict of interest, i.e. people trying to sell you SMD pedals will tell you that they sound the same, people trying to sell you pedals with expensive film caps will tell you MLCCs sound like garbage. I am not exempt from this conflict of interest, obviously I sell things.

Welcome to page 500 of the Secret Society by the way

 

[Sushi Box FX]

<this post is a meaningless filler post so I can get to #10,000>

 

[Sushi Box FX]

POST #10,000