The Sushi Box FX Secret Society

[Sushi Box FX]

nathan,

understood... I had no idea both these lines of hiwatt amps had the same preamp stuff - or do they?

still curious watt

mike watt's hoot page

There are minor differences between models, I've just always been drawn to the Dr103.

I would love to see someone create a pedal sized Tube poweramp!

Unfortunately not really feasible due to size and heat. I made a 1/2W tube power amp that fits in a pedal enclosure, but anything bigger just isn't practical as you need a large (and heavy) output transformer in addition to the tubes themselves. Power tubes take a lot more power than preamp tubes, so you'll also need a hefty power transformer. Basically the best you can do is something the size of a small lunchbox amp, and it will get hot. Not very pedalboard friendly.

You can probably guess I've looked into it.

 

[GR7G5TER]

Unfortunately not really feasible due to size and heat. I made a 1/2W tube power amp that fits in a pedal enclosure, but anything bigger just isn't practical as you need a large (and heavy) output transformer in addition to the tubes themselves. Power tubes take a lot more power than preamp tubes, so you'll also need a hefty power transformer. Basically the best you can do is something the size of a small lunchbox amp, and it will get hot. Not very pedalboard friendly.

You can probably guess I've looked into it.

I've talked it through with couple of people in the past and realise it's a pipe dream only!

I'd love a low wattage tube power section or two as my tone comes from cranking the power tubes to get a really fat sound (even when playing clean) and at 50w my amp is VERY loud

I run an Ampeg PF50T from the post transformer DI out into an solid state power amp to achieve what i want to hear at resonable sound levels (and some very unreasonable ones!).

 

[Bassgeer]

There are minor differences between models, I've just always been drawn to the Dr103.


Unfortunately not really feasible due to size and heat. I made a 1/2W tube power amp that fits in a pedal enclosure, but anything bigger just isn't practical as you need a large (and heavy) output transformer in addition to the tubes themselves. Power tubes take a lot more power than preamp tubes, so you'll also need a hefty power transformer. Basically the best you can do is something the size of a small lunchbox amp, and it will get hot. Not very pedalboard friendly.

You can probably guess I've looked into it.

I was just thinking about this the other day actually. I had a feeling that this would be the case due to the higher power draw and output involved with power tubes. Maybe this is one place that SMD could win out. There are a lot of awesome preamps nowadays that either emulate preamps tubes or actually use preamp tubes. I'd love to see a pedal that had a really realistic power amp emulation, including the effects of the output transformer saturating and from driving the power tubes hard. Some of the Mesa circuitry that adds emulated power amp damping and symmetric / asymmetric overdrive controls on their class D heads is pretty neat.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I've talked it through with couple of people in the past and realise it's a pipe dream only!

I'd love a low wattage tube power section or two as my tone comes from cranking the power tubes to get a really fat sound (even when playing clean) and at 50w my amp is VERY loud

I run an Ampeg PF50T from the post transformer DI out into an solid state power amp to achieve what i want to hear at resonable sound levels (and some very unreasonable ones!).

I was looking at a single 6V6 (5-6W) tube power amp in a pedal-sized box, and even that wouldn't fit in a Noble-sized box. If a 50W tube power amp was possible in a small box guitarists would kill for it, but alas still a pipe dream. Anything over about 1W is just going to be too big and too hot

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I was just thinking about this the other day actually. I had a feeling that this would be the case due to the higher power draw and output involved with power tubes. Maybe this is one place that SMD could win out. There are a lot of awesome preamps nowadays that either emulate preamps tubes or actually use preamp tubes. I'd love to see a pedal that had a really realistic power amp emulation, including the effects of the output transformer saturating and from driving the power tubes hard. Some of the Mesa circuitry that adds emulated power amp damping and symmetric / asymmetric overdrive controls on their class D heads is pretty neat.

I have Firebox, my power amp emulator, but it needs a little work before I can decide whether or not it's going to be useful, I just keep forgetting about it in favor of the next shiny thing.

 

[bonin in the boneyard]

The Link Removed and the Hughes & Kettner Bass Master come to mind as small boxes that include a "power" tube to give the effect of power tube saturation. I had the H&K for a while, and it was even loud enough for solo practice without additional amplification.

The Ashdown CTM-15 is also pretty small for what it is, with a half solid-state front end and tube back end, like the old Music Man backwards hybrid amps. But it's already way too big for pedal format.

 

[Bassgeer]

I have Firebox, my power amp emulator, but it needs a little work before I can decide whether or not it's going to be useful, I just keep forgetting about it in favor of the next shiny thing.

Tell us more!!!

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Tell us more!!!

Did I not talk about that? Thought I did. Anyway...

Firebox is my attempt at a tube-driven power amp emulator similar to how SWR did with the Interstellar Overdrive. I have a simple tube preamp (Space Heater) going into a low-power (1/2W) power amp with an output transformer and everything. Then instead of a speaker we have a dummy load with a tap into a line out. This gives you the response of a tube power amp and the effect of the power transformer but lets you run it into an IR loader or similar device to give you essentially an entire combo amp sound the size of a pedal.

So I built up a prototype and it works, but I dropped the level too hard so it's not loud enough to be useful. I should be able to swap one component and have it be usable enough to try out.

 

[Bassgeer]

Did I not talk about that? Thought I did. Anyway...

Firebox is my attempt at a tube-driven power amp emulator similar to how SWR did with the Interstellar Overdrive. I have a simple tube preamp (Space Heater) going into a low-power (1/2W) power amp with an output transformer and everything. Then instead of a speaker we have a dummy load with a tap into a line out. This gives you the response of a tube power amp and the effect of the power transformer but lets you run it into an IR loader or similar device to give you essentially an entire combo amp sound the size of a pedal.

So I built up a prototype and it works, but I dropped the level too hard so it's not loud enough to be useful. I should be able to swap one component and have it be usable enough to try out.

You might have, I am not as consistent at following TB threads as some so I might have missed it. I am really interested in this. Recently decided that my setup will be Broughton Messenger at the end of chain as a super clean preamp, directly driving a power amp. I will have my Finally from the September batch first in line to provide clean DI and tube warmth in front of the rest of the chain. The only thing missing is a power amp emulator. If I need IR, I run the Messenger into a Darkglass Element.

The Firebox sounds like it would work perfect for me. Two thoughts I have: it would be useful to give it the same DI that Finally has from the output transformer tap so you could go direct to a recording console. Secondly, it would be awesome if the line out from the transformer tap had enough gain to go to line level, then throw an attenuator knob on it so you could dial it back to instrument level. Then it could either fit into an effects chain, or directly drive a standalone power amp.

Really excited about the potential this holds!

***Edit***

Not sure if this would be possible, but it would be a neat feature to have an "amp input" just in case you want to use a different preamp stage directly into the power amp.

What size do you think Firebox would end up being?

 

[Nuage420]

As I sat here pouting over missing my opportunity to get a white finally I get a PM with a trade offer for one of my ads. No specific offer but a request of what I would be interested in. I replied that Tube DIs were at the top of my list and his response was with... A WHITE FINALLY!!! ANNNDDDDD it's got the green LED as well. AAANNNNDDDDDD it arrived with my new bass.
Fresh Sushi and Chopsstick Day!

 

[4Mal]

UA in dealer's choice and pink LED - Order in. 18 October slots left... so far ;-)

 

[Hasty]

I was looking at a single 6V6 (5-6W) tube power amp in a pedal-sized box, and even that wouldn't fit in a Noble-sized box. If a 50W tube power amp was possible in a small box guitarists would kill for it, but alas still a pipe dream. Anything over about 1W is just going to be too big and too hot

50W sounds cool but honestly, I’d rather have something in the 1-5W range. An amp I could run at lower “studio” volumes and push it to breakup without shaking the whole place. I’m not sure how well that would work in real life, but with a really efficient small cab I bet it could be pretty amazing. I built a little Noisy Cricket 1/2 watt amp in a Fender Champ style enclosure that works great with guitar and mandolin… so I’m thinking something with just a tiny bit more oomph would work pretty well.

 

[mmbass21]

Did I not talk about that? Thought I did. Anyway...

Firebox is my attempt at a tube-driven power amp emulator similar to how SWR did with the Interstellar Overdrive. I have a simple tube preamp (Space Heater) going into a low-power (1/2W) power amp with an output transformer and everything. Then instead of a speaker we have a dummy load with a tap into a line out. This gives you the response of a tube power amp and the effect of the power transformer but lets you run it into an IR loader or similar device to give you essentially an entire combo amp sound the size of a pedal.

So I built up a prototype and it works, but I dropped the level too hard so it's not loud enough to be useful. I should be able to swap one component and have it be usable enough to try out.

Along the lines of this interesting prototype I was always wanting to try a Hughes & Kettner Batt/Bass Master. I've been intrigued by it ever since learning about it given it can drive a cab for practice and also a tube driven DI. Granted it isn't quite pedal size but something with a similar feature set could potentially have a market.

BATT / Bass Master - Hughes and Kettner Micro Distortion Valve Amps

 

[4Mal]

50W sounds cool but honestly, I’d rather have something in the 1-5W range. An amp I could run at lower “studio” volumes and push it to breakup without shaking the whole place. I’m not sure how well that would work in real life, but with a really efficient small cab I bet it could be pretty amazing. I built a little Noisy Cricket 1/2 watt amp in a Fender Champ style enclosure that works great with guitar and mandolin… so I’m thinking something with just a tiny bit more oomph would work pretty well.

Funny in the 90's I dropped a bunch of tracks using a 12 watt Princeton. Open back with an Alnico Weber 12 (replaced baffle). On a chair. In the middle of a space. I ended up wirh a 57 close and an AKG LDC mic a couple of feet out. This was an Americana setting and the bass that I almost always reached for... Tacoma Thunderchief. I used a buffered tuner to mellow out the impedance thing. I gotta go see if I can unearth some of that stuff... tonally this was about huge and warm but not warm into grind.

 

[Sushi Box FX]

Not sure if this would be possible, but it would be a neat feature to have an "amp input" just in case you want to use a different preamp stage directly into the power amp.

What size do you think Firebox would end up being?

Firebox in its current configuration was intended to be a proof-of-concept prototype, which is the only reason I threw the Space Heater preamp in with it. If I were to sell it as a unit I would probably do so without the preamp so you could plug whatever you want in it.

As for size, it's currently in a Hammond 1590XX enclosure, which is the same size as Smoke Signal. Big, but not absurdly huge. The real limiting factor on the size is going to be the power transformer. I like everything mounted inside the enclosure, which means I'm not sure how much smaller I could get it. 1590BB (Dr. Wattson size) is good for length and width, but it's a bit shallower so the transformer wouldn't fit, and I'm not sure if I could actually get the circuit down compact enough to fit in a 125B (UA, Slampegg etc. size) enclosure.

50W sounds cool but honestly, I’d rather have something in the 1-5W range. An amp I could run at lower “studio” volumes and push it to breakup without shaking the whole place. I’m not sure how well that would work in real life, but with a really efficient small cab I bet it could be pretty amazing. I built a little Noisy Cricket 1/2 watt amp in a Fender Champ style enclosure that works great with guitar and mandolin… so I’m thinking something with just a tiny bit more oomph would work pretty well.

If you're open to 1-ish watts, take a look at the AX84 Firefly, that's what I'm using as a reference for the power stage in Firebox. It uses a 12AU7 in self-split configuration so you essentially get a push-pull (class AB) amplifier with a single tube. Some people call it a 1W amp, some people call it a 1/2W amp, but either way through the right cab it can get a great, reasonably loud (enough for bedroom practice/recording, obviously not gigging) sound.

https://ax84.com/archive/ax84.com/media/ax84_m276.gif

If you want 2-3W you could take a look at 12BH7 which can run similar to 12AU7 as a dual-triode power section. Something I've wanted to try as 12BH7 is a neat tube but never really gotten around to.

5W puts you solidly into much more power-hungry pentodes like 6V6 and EL84. Still not as hot or demanding as 6L6 or EL34, but definitely bigger and hotter with stricter power requirements than 12AU7 or 12BH7.

 

[Bassgeer]

Firebox in its current configuration was intended to be a proof-of-concept prototype, which is the only reason I threw the Space Heater preamp in with it. If I were to sell it as a unit I would probably do so without the preamp so you could plug whatever you want in it.

As for size, it's currently in a Hammond 1590XX enclosure, which is the same size as Smoke Signal. Big, but not absurdly huge. The real limiting factor on the size is going to be the power transformer. I like everything mounted inside the enclosure, which means I'm not sure how much smaller I could get it. 1590BB (Dr. Wattson size) is good for length and width, but it's a bit shallower so the transformer wouldn't fit, and I'm not sure if I could actually get the circuit down compact enough to fit in a 125B (UA, Slampegg etc. size) enclosure.

This all sounds awesome! I will keep an eye on this thread for progress!

 

[Hasty]

If you're open to 1-ish watts, take a look at the AX84 Firefly, that's what I'm using as a reference for the power stage in Firebox. It uses a 12AU7 in self-split configuration so you essentially get a push-pull (class AB) amplifier with a single tube. Some people call it a 1W amp, some people call it a 1/2W amp, but either way through the right cab it can get a great, reasonably loud (enough for bedroom practice/recording, obviously not gigging) sound.

Now that’s cool and probably right up my alley. I think I just arbitrarily chose the range of 1-5, but 1-3 would probably do exactly what I want. I was tempted to buy a little Epi Valve Jr and see what I could do with that. There are tons of mods out there, but I’d really love to base something off a Nixie power supply with a small and reasonable transformer that could give me 1ish watts in a nice compact form.

I glanced at that AX84 schematic and I’ll study it more in depth later when I’m more awake. Thanks for that!

 

[lomo]

Is anyone powering a More with a CIOKS 7? Is its' standard single outlet enough (I would surmise that at 660mw it is, allowing for a fairly slow warmup)?

 

[lomo]

The hamster in my mind was randomly turning the wheel when it asked me what my favourite preamp of all time is, and the answer was immediately obvious: Mesa Walkabout (honourable mention to Eden WT550). That'd be a beast to put in a box....active eq with parametric eq with passive mids, but oooooooooh.......

 

[el murdoque]

Is anyone powering a More with a CIOKS 7? Is its' standard single outlet enough (I would surmise that at 660mw it is, allowing for a fairly slow warmup)?

I did a Smoke Signal on a Cioks DC 7. IIRC Cioks says it can do 660 and Sushi says it wants 700, but I could not confirm a long waiting period. I flipped the switch to power the pedalboard, sat down, put my bass in my lap, and when I hit the first note, the pedal was there.

I guess that Cioks wants to err on the safe side and their outlets can do a little bit more and Mr Sushi is also cautious when specifying the current draw, so we're good here.

However, even with 40mA missing, the pedal should work fine and just take a tiny moment longer to warm up.