Things Publicans Don't Get

[Ox Boris]

Most venues that put on live music now do so because the owner or manager is a live music fan, not to actually make money putting on the band. Why is that? Well, because it's actually very difficult to make to make money with live music these days.

This is true. I was talking to the manager of what used to be the live music rock venue in Townsville. He told me point blank that moving the 4 dining tables in the bistro to accommodate a band would cost him in excess of $2000 in meal takings. Can't argue with the fiscal logic of that, but if he could see the disappointment and lament on faces of the people who hear this anecdote, I'd like to think that a bit, ok a lot, less profit in one area in order to appeal to an extra potential audience will pay dividends later and if not dividends, then atmosphere and general well-being that a "bloody good night" brings to the venue and the staff and the punters. Sure there's plenty of retirees and young families in your bistro, but nobody's having a good time, especially the staff.

 

[MCF]

1. It's not 4hrs work, it's 6 hours' work. Set-up, pack-down.
2. Forget how much the band is costing and work out the hourly rate per member. Now hang your head in shame at your bleating over paying highly skilled workers the same as the cleaner.
3. Solo acts are great value. Yes! For the soloist. For your punters, it's poophouse and they won't drink as much.
4. Now work out the hourly rate for the soloist. Done? Care to display the same outrage as what you did when the band asked to be paid less than half that rate? And you're paying it for a glorified karaoke act.
5. It's not 4hrs work, it's 6 hours' work. This is worth mentioning twice.
6. For what you get, a 4-or-5-piece band is the best value of any of your expenses.

This is, of course, pertinent to Australia where slavery is outlawed.
Feel free to add your own.

Pretty much why, after starting to play again after a long hiatus, I'm in no hurry to play out again. I'm pretty much ready, with a long playlist of classic rock, prog, punk, surf, new wave, alternative, shoe gaze, alt country and even some real country. Just not sure it's worth it. Maybe in a few years when I retire. But for now, I'm a happy hobbyist.

 

[Ox Boris]

The OP is complaining, after agreeing to terms

You must have posted in the wrong thread as this sentence doesn't seem to be in even passing contact with anything I've posted. What's happened is that you've described something that hasn't happened in order to have an excuse to make your point. Just make it. Otherwise you're being...

intellectually dishonest and emotionally immature.

 

[BAG]

This is true. I was talking to the manager of what used to be the live music rock venue in Townsville. He told me point blank that moving the 4 dining tables in the bistro to accommodate a band would cost him in excess of $2000 in meal takings. Can't argue with the fiscal logic of that, but if he could see the disappointment and lament on faces of the people who hear this anecdote, I'd like to think that a bit, ok a lot, less profit in one area in order to appeal to an extra potential audience will pay dividends later and if not dividends, then atmosphere and general well-being that a "bloody good night" brings to the venue and the staff and the punters. Sure there's plenty of retirees and young families in your bistro, but nobody's having a good time, especially the staff.

To a LOT of people, a nice meal in a decent room with tasteful backing music IS a good time. Having a full band playing there, particularly the vast majority of bands with either a drummer or guitarist that doesn't know the meaning of "turn down", will ruin that good night out for them.

After the age of about 35 most people would prefer a quiet bar with a decent mp3 playlist or a good acoustic soloist over a full band playing. Sad....but true.

Your extra investment in a band will give growth.
Quality of band a given of course.

You say this as though it is a fact when it is not.
One thing that is a fact is most publicans like to make profits. If it were true that having good bands on regularly would guarantee growth in profits don't you think more places would be putting on good bands?

 

[rmayer]

The other one I often quote is, I think, from here:
Publican asks if the band can turn the drums down, to which the band says, "No, sorry, they're acoustic drums and they're not even miked up". Publican replies, "Well can you mic 'em up and turn 'em down?"
Band: <Stands blinking, like a character from South Park>

I would have said, we can turn up the rest of the instruments. Then, by comparison, the drums will sound quieter. Will that do it for you? Just to see his reaction.

 

[Ox Boris]

You say this as though it is a fact when it is not.
One thing that is a fact is most publicans like to make profits. If it were true that having good bands on regularly would guarantee growth in profits don't you think more places would be putting on good bands?

I dealt with this earlier.
I added the caveat to stress an appropriate band in an appropriate venue, all other things being equal and complimentary, in order to specify rather than sweepingly generalise.

 

[GManfromOz]

There is currently no mandatory regulation in regards to security however some local Licensing police will make "recommendations" to licensees. Ignore these "recommendations" and you'll probably find you get more visits from police and Gaming and Racing inspectors.

I have run pubs and clubs from Sydney, to Wollongong, Central Coast, Mid North Coast and Snowy Mountains. I've dealt with both good and bad licensing cops. In one instance where we ran a very popular nightclub I put in place policies and procedures in excess of what was required by the most violent venue in NSW at the time. This was still not good enough as far as the local Licensing cop was concerned. We had 12 "events" over 12 months and was therefore considered a Level 2 premises. One of the requirements was that we only use plastic after midnight (even though we'd been using plastic after 10pm since opening the nightclub) however, as It was mandated this meant that if an inspector found even one glass or bottle anywhere in the venue after midnight I face a criminal charge personally. It was at this stage that I told the CEO that either we close the nightclub or I hand in my notice.

And I won't even get started on noise complaints....

Edit.... What venue was it on the Central Coast?

It's the old Iguanas on the waterfront at Gosford, just across from the stadium. It might be The Coast now, there's been a lot of changes of ownership.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Why are live bands not all that and the bag of chips?

Too loud for the room.
Too loud for the room.
Lack of talent, charisma, suitable material, manners.
Too loud for the room.

 

[GManfromOz]

To a LOT of people, a nice meal in a decent room with tasteful backing music IS a good time. Having a full band playing there, particularly the vast majority of bands with either a drummer or guitarist that doesn't know the meaning of "turn down", will ruin that good night out for them.

After the age of about 35 most people would prefer a quiet bar with a decent mp3 playlist or a good acoustic soloist over a full band playing. Sad....but true.


You say this as though it is a fact when it is not.
One thing that is a fact is most publicans like to make profits. If it were true that having good bands on regularly would guarantee growth in profits don't you think more places would be putting on good bands?

Interesting note on your earlier edited post. Our lead guitarist does a duet with his wife and gets the $300-500 range for a comfy afternoon gig in a nice venue, but as a five piece (with him) we get $600-1000 before expenses after traveling to the far flung reaches of western Sydney and getting home at 2am.

 

[JACink]

Hey @Ox Boris , I totally agree with you, it is downright unfair and cruel for musical artists to earn the same as a cleaning lady, we are much better than those low life cleaning people!!

And of course more is better, the more artists you can get on stage the better it will be for everyone, it will improve the musicality and good time for everyone. I mean, just look at the 100.000+ people that spend all night dancing to the Philarmonical Orchestra, while silly solo DJ's like Skrillex are lucky if they draw 50 old age pensioners at a show!

I think the best solution would be to ban live music from all venues, that will teach those damn club owners to respect us, when they find out that nobody goes to their venues anymore because they only have a DJ that charges 10% for a whole night while they could be spending much more on a band for an hour!!!

 

[JACink]

BTW, I have owned and run venues with live music, and set up many many shows in all kinds of venues, and agree with 90% of the content already posted in the thread, so I thought it would be boring to read the same thing again, although, maybe the more people who post the same thing, the better it will read...

 

[pwhalen]

Better for the songs we're playing in our band.

If you're looking for objective proof, you've seriously misjudged the content and the spirit of this thread. What you're saying amounts to the grand retort of "That's just your opinion." Well, who do you think's talking? Of course it's my opinion! Would you prefer I gave you your opinion?! I sick of such fatuous remarks being made and the person who says it thinking they've made some sort of point. You haven't. I'm not here to be objective, I'm here to make my point. Don't bleat just because your subjective point hasn't been aired. Not my job.

No, I'm removing opinion from the issue entirely by having the register receipts determine what is better for the venue, like the owners do. The results apparently aren't to your liking. My suggestion is that rather than crying about it here, perhaps it would behoove you to work on changing the amount of money you can generate for the club so that it makes more financial sense to pay you what you seem to think your services are worth.

 

[lfmn16]

Amazing isn't it that people pretend not to care what others say and then cut about acting as if my word is law, applies to them personally as well as universally and is about to be imposed upon them against their will...

 

[Ox Boris]

Hey @Ox Boris , I totally agree with you, it is downright unfair and cruel for musical artists to earn the same as a cleaning lady, we are much better than those low life cleaning people!!

And of course more is better, the more artists you can get on stage the better it will be for everyone, it will improve the musicality and good time for everyone. I mean, just look at the 100.000+ people that spend all night dancing to the Philarmonical Orchestra, while silly solo DJ's like Skrillex are lucky if they draw 50 old age pensioners at a show!

I think the best solution would be to ban live music from all venues, that will teach those damn club owners to respect us, when they find out that nobody goes to their venues anymore because they only have a DJ that charges 10% for a whole night while they could be spending much more on a band for an hour!!!

guyincognito has hacked your account

 

[Ox Boris]

No, I'm removing opinion from the issue entirely

Good move, because from here it's drivel.

by having the register receipts determine what is better for the venue, like the owners do. The results apparently aren't to your liking. My suggestion is that rather than crying about it here, perhaps it would behoove you to work on changing the amount of money you can generate for the club so that it makes more financial sense to pay you what you seem to think your services are worth.

It wouldn't be drivel if it didn't assume that the only publicans in existence are the ones described exactly in my OP. This is not all publicans, it's not even "a" publican, it's things I've noticed over the years, listed for my enjoyment. I know you'd prefer I was in crisis over a particular event, it'd be easier for you to be judgemental, but I'm not. Nothing happened. I remembered the miked drums joke and it prompted the thread. Disappointing for you, I know, but there it is, old boy. Fireside chat, ruined rather by you and those of your kidney dragging mud all over the Persian.

 

[Tony In Philly]

Hey @Ox Boris , I totally agree with you, it is downright unfair and cruel for musical artists to earn the same as a cleaning lady, we are much better than those low life cleaning people!!

My cleaning lady laughed when I told her how much I make on the average gig!

 

[Ox Boris]

Hey @Ox Boris , I totally agree with you, it is downright unfair and cruel for musical artists to earn the same as a cleaning lady, we are much better than those low life cleaning people!!

Being a cleaner is fine. The comparison is the cleaner turns up at start time and starts work. A cleaner began being a cleaner the day they got a cleaning job. They didn't spend years getting up to speed cleaning-wise in order to get the job. And when they've finished cleaning, they don't have to practice cleaning in the evenings in order to bring something new to the clean every time they work. This is why the pay is relatively low; and why I think a band member is worth more, given that both bandie and cleaner are competent in their jobs.
That's how I feel about it anyway.
It would appear that the only person who thinks that all cleaners are lowlifes, is you, me old fruit.
Whoops.

 

[JACink]

I think a band member is worth more

That is very much dependent upon the band member and the cleaning person. Also, there are laws saying that things must be cleaned, but I don't know of a club that got closed down for not having a musician.

Occupation: Musician/Comedian

Some points that you make are actually pretty funny, is the pay better as a comedian?

 

[gln1955]

Being a cleaner is fine. The comparison is the cleaner turns up at start time and starts work. A cleaner began being a cleaner the day they got a cleaning job. They didn't spend years getting up to speed cleaning-wise in order to get the job. And when they've finished cleaning, they don't have to practice cleaning in the evenings in order to bring something new to the clean every time they work. This is why the pay is relatively low; and why I think a band member is worth more, given that both bandie and cleaner are competent in their jobs.
That's how I feel about it anyway.
It would appear that the only person who thinks that all cleaners are lowlifes, is you, me old fruit.
Whoops.

The cleaning person also doesn't have a sense of entitlement that runs counter to business common sense. Your band is worth what someone is willing to pay you and not a penny more. When you accept that fact maybe you'll be a happier person.

 

[Metropolis_488]

You must have posted in the wrong thread as this sentence doesn't seem to be in even passing contact with anything I've posted. What's happened is that you've described something that hasn't happened in order to have an excuse to make your point. Just make it. Otherwise you're being...

You know what? You're right. Keep it up!