Threads concerning heavy metal: music's true nerds?

[Kehpen]

Yes.
Also note that most metal is not metal
metalliaca = not metal
pantera = not metal
tool = not metal
anything on the radio or you've heard of = not metal
I even had one kid tell me Slayer wasn't metal?!?!?!?!?! WHAT?


They also have the strange illusion that there are enough differences in different metal bands that warrant a completely new genre

metalcore
deathcore
grindcore
death metal
black metal
prog metal
neumetal
for example and I'm sure these idiots could spit out about 50 more "genres"

Completely oblivious to the fact that they all pretty much sound exactly the same.


Hi I'm Absentia I play in a metal band and I hate metalheads and most metal music.

Just had an argument about this the other day with people. The argument about, 'why in the hell is there a need for three-subs in a genre. Who listens to a song and defines if while they listen? I'd give them some Mr. Bungle or Iwrestledabearonce to confuse them on what to actually call them other than 'fun,' but that 'is not heavy enough for my BR00TAL TASTES!"

I have to say, Tool is half metal, half not, though. Eh. Metallica, Pantera, things on the radio, Agreed. They ARE NOT metal. They are hark rock. Even if they USED to be metal, standards change in basic-genre defining.
BLARGH I HATE GENRES...!

I am very guilty of listening to new metal, and I like it, but it seems like everything i listen to isn't heavy enough for other people who listened to 'real' metal, which I am starting to conclude consists of taking the copper pipes from your sewage and bludgeoning yourself to death with it.

I like Suicide Silence and Veil of Maya, Cannibal Corpse is good,

But when I mention these bands, there's one person saying, "That's totally gay!" (Which makes me want to punch some lights out for being intolerant, but for the sake of the rant.)

My favorite band is Dir en Grey, and they started out as a visual-kei J-pop band in 1997 who now does some of the most amazing screams and singing I've ever heard, but because they sing.


I digress, Metal-heads are stupid when they don't open their minds for more then two seconds.

 

[Kehpen]

Oh, and most metalheads are no longer WoW nerds, WoW is slowly dying, thankfully.

They are computer-programing, video game nerds. I am not one of them, but that might be because I don't have a game system.

 

[daystcity]

When a genre like metal is so unbelievably broad, being defined by distorted guitar and MAYBE a set of vocal styles (depends on who you ask), each subgenre is entirely justified. I prefer to categorize my music by mood and atmosphere rather than what it sounds like personally, but in defining it to others I will use genre.

Just because somebody is immersed enough in their music to separate black metal from blackened death metal doesn't mean they're an idiot, it means they are refining their taste while keeping the label up to date. In other genres people can specify their preference by just listing a couple of bands they like and calling it a day, but when somebody who is into black metal realizes they prefer the added influence of death metal's depth and riffage, they get ripped on for having labeled their same distinction of taste blackened death metal.

Some days I prefer red and anarchist black metal (RABM, ‪Part 1anopticon LP Intro/Flag Burner Torch Bearer/I Hedonist‬‏ - YouTube ) over suicidal and depressive black metal (SDBM Invalid Link Removed ), they are very different in attitude and mindset, yet share the same black metal sound. I can't go in to listen to a black metal band in the mood for some rebellion and anarchy and expect to get that based on that label alone. If I don't want to be sorely disappointed and jarred into another atmosphere, I really do need to specify that I'm going to listen to some RABM or another genre similar in emotion, some Nationalist/Socialist black metal (NSBM ‪M8L8TH - Beyond the Twilights‬‏ - YouTube) comes to mind. You're kidding yourself if you think I'm deep into the genre to know this much, even in something as confined as black metal, you've got more distinct expressions than I frankly have time to explore. Black metal and folk, hardcore(‪War Desire- The Secret‬‏ - YouTube), drone( ‪Sunn O))) - It Took The Night To Believe‬‏ - YouTube ) etc. also combine to make new sounds and distinct emotions you may or may not want to experience in your search, thus justifying the unique handles of genre.

To say that even most metalheads are computer nerds... I mean really, these generalizations are getting out of hand, you're gonna poke someone's eye out here!

 

[DeathFromBelow]

...red and anarchist black metal...
...Nationalist/Socialist black metal...

This is so wrong, I don't know where to start...

Mixing black metal and politics? Yeah, that makes sense...

 

[Korladis]

I dunno, black metal's been somewhat mixed with extremist politics since the early 90's.

 

[daystcity]

Black metal is a sound, why should there be limitations to its use? I don't see music as something sacred that can be defiled by a different message, but now I'm curious. Why exactly is using black metal to push a political agenda wrong in your eyes? Even in the very early days, church burning to reclaim sacred pagan land doesn't seem too different, promoting what you think would be best for your country, with a sort of return to the old ways approach. I think that a lot of political black metal bands are closer to the early motivations than the cheesy satan-worshiping ones. Not that it matters personally, like I said, but I just wonder on what basis you think they are 'wrong'.

Edit: And no I'm not counting Venom as black metal

 

[DeathFromBelow]

I dunno, black metal's been somewhat mixed with extremist politics since the early 90's.

If you are thinking of Vikernes being a nazi and Aarseth being a communist, Burzum was never a nazi-band and Mayhem was never a commie-band. They kept their political views and their music separated. Although, Burzum did go in that direction on the newer releases.

Black metal is a sound, why should there be limitations to its use? I don't see music as something sacred that can be defiled by a different message, but now I'm curious. Why exactly is using black metal to push a political agenda wrong in your eyes? Even in the very early days, church burning to reclaim sacred pagan land doesn't seem too different, promoting what you think would be best for your country, with a sort of return to the old ways approach. I think that a lot of political black metal bands are closer to the early motivations than the cheesy satan-worshiping ones. Not that it matters personally, like I said, but I just wonder on what basis you think they are 'wrong'.

Edit: And no I'm not counting Venom as black metal

Because politics are about unity, group-mentality, and working together to reach a common goal.

And that basically goes against everything black metal means to me.
In my opinion, bm is about misanthropy, thinking for yourself, standing your own ground and being "on the outside looking in" so to speak.

It's every man for himself.

I've also found that the bands that are trying to push some sort of "message", generally focus way to much on image and the actual music suffers.

 

[sloasdaylight]

Suicide Silence is awful. Flat out awful.

 

[daystcity]

Your relationship with black metal is kind of like mine with house music, and I have the same knee-jerk reaction when people say stuff like, "Man, I love house, deadmau5's new single is so awesome!" To me, house isn't just a sound, and to you it's the same with black metal, as opposed to what I said earlier, but it's not as easy as calling the meaning you associate the good one and all others bad. To the majority of the population, genres define a sound, which is why I said I like to categorize music based on feeling rather than genre, as the genre just defines what the music sounds like (a lot of IDM has the same feel as my favorite house stuff). When something under the house genre is released today made for pure danceability, I have to restrain myself from laughing it off as modern crap. It never set out to give the same feeling I hold so close with older house, how can I hold it accountable for failing at something it doesn't try and do? I might not enjoy it, but it doesn't mean it's 'wrong'. In fact, if it succeeds at being danceable, it is by my definition good music, just not some I would like to listen to.

So, I'm not really trying to convince you that my musical tastes in black metal are justified , but now at least I understand more of where you come from. Any modern black metal bands really doing it for you? I really think we need a modern house scene in our youth culture(my house, mind you) and have had no luck finding it.

EDIT: I agree with the suicide silence bit, but that's not what I really wanted to talk about. Judging by your sig Nidingr is one of those bands I asked about

 

[Korladis]

If you are thinking of Vikernes being a nazi and Aarseth being a communist, Burzum was never a nazi-band and Mayhem was never a commie-band. They kept their political views and their music separated. Although, Burzum did go in that direction on the newer releases.




Because politics are about unity, group-mentality, and working together to reach a common goal.

And that basically goes against everything black metal means to me.
In my opinion, bm is about misanthropy, thinking for yourself, standing your own ground and being "on the outside looking in" so to speak.

It's every man for himself.

I've also found that the bands that are trying to push some sort of "message", generally focus way to much on image and the actual music suffers.

I dunno, Vikernes especially was pretty open about his rather extreme beliefs.

Also, burning down churches as an anti-Christian statement is pretty political.

I don't like the idea that black metal has to be about a certain thing. That seems to be imposing rules on it, which I dunno, seems kinda weird to me.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Your relationship with black metal is kind of like mine with house music, and I have the same knee-jerk reaction when people say stuff like, "Man, I love house, deadmau5's new single is so awesome!" To me, house isn't just a sound, and to you it's the same with black metal, as opposed to what I said earlier, but it's not as easy as calling the meaning you associate the good one and all others bad. To the majority of the population, genres define a sound, which is why I said I like to categorize music based on feeling rather than genre, as the genre just defines what the music sounds like (a lot of IDM has the same feel as my favorite house stuff). When something under the house genre is released today made for pure danceability, I have to restrain myself from laughing it off as modern crap. It never set out to give the same feeling I hold so close with older house, how can I hold it accountable for failing at something it doesn't try and do? I might not enjoy it, but it doesn't mean it's 'wrong'. In fact, if it succeeds at being danceable, it is by my definition good music, just not some I would like to listen to.

So, I'm not really trying to convince you that my musical tastes in black metal are justified , but now at least I understand more of where you come from. Any modern black metal bands really doing it for you? I really think we need a modern house scene in our youth culture(my house, mind you) and have had no luck finding it.

EDIT: I agree with the suicide silence bit, but that's not what I really wanted to talk about. Judging by your sig Nidingr is one of those bands I asked about

Sure, I see where your'e coming from as well, bm is first and foremost about feeling and the music itself, not message/image/whatever. But I personally still see adding politics to it as a perversion of the art so I steer away from the bands who do. Politics are lies and I have better things to do with my time than listen to falsehood.

As for "modern" bm? Well definitely check out Nidingr, our latest album Wolf-Father is a crusher!

Aura Noir and Darkthrone(of course) allways deliver the goods, and one of my guitarists in Nidingr recently collaborated on the new album from The Konsortium-worth checking out. To be honest I really don't follow the "scene" anymore, so I'm not much of a source for new bm.
I'm getting old and grumpy...

I dunno, Vikernes especially was pretty open about his rather extreme beliefs.

Also, burning down churches as an anti-Christian statement is pretty political.

I don't like the idea that black metal has to be about a certain thing. That seems to be imposing rules on it, which I dunno, seems kinda weird to me.

Vikernes and Aarseth were both very open about their beliefs, but neither of them carried them over to their music. The lyrics and artwork on the early releases from both Mayhem and Burzum are completely a-political, maybe except for Vikernes printing the lyrics on Hvis Lyset Tar Oss(great album btw) in both Norwegian and German.

As for the church burnings, you have to consider the fact that they were all carried out by rebellious,misguided teenagers for shock-value and to gain acceptance with the so-called "inner circle".
In reality politics or even religion had very little to do with it.

And I'm not saying that bm has to be about certain things, or should follow any rules. I mean, that would pretty much go against everything I said in my previous post. To each their own.
At the end of the day all that really matters to me is the quality of the music itself and what it makes me feel when listening to it. But political ramblings from sheep? No thanks.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Btw, we are SO confirming the original premise of this thread right now!

Nerds? Where?

 

[pie_man_25]

This is so wrong, I don't know where to start...

Mixing black metal and politics? Yeah, that makes sense...

how about the many people that drag religion into music?

Christian rock, the rastafarian influence on reggae music, satanic black metal.

I don't see much reason in limiting the lyrical themes in music, listening to leftover crack and choking victim and reading 1984 got me into politics. Of course my own opinion on politics is very different from those of stza and Orwell, but they certainly got me thinking, so I fail to see what's so "wrong" about it.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Write about politics and/or religion as much as you want, no skin off my back. Just don't expect me to fall for your utopian illusions.

You do your thing, I'll do mine.

 

[Tituscrow]

All genres have a contingent of nerdlike behaviour specialists. Depends on your definition of a nerd. Someone who is overly analytical and tries to compartmentalise and pigeonhole every different band? Yep, there's your nerd. But so what? Why does that bother anybody?
I love tons of different bands, as I'm sure do most TB'ers, but i really don't get all agitated if a band I like is given a label I disagree with.

I used to think ALL jazz sounded like bad lift (elevator) music. Having been 'educated' by a jazz 'nerd', I now see the error of my ways, and just think MOST jazz sounds like bad lift (elevator) music.

Btw, what's the difference between cult and kvlt, other than the latter isn't a real word?

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Let me give you a piece of advice: Don't take the imagery of black metal so seriously, because 99% of those of us who play it sure don't, atleast not here in Europe where the genre originated!

I've read a number of interviews by black metal bands, and the impression I've always gotten is that they take themselves WAY too seriously (see the website Mourning the Ancient for examples). For instance, I've always found the guys in Mayhem to be extremely pretentious.

I've never really been a black metal fan, though.

 

[GregC]

I don't know, is it really THAT broad or does it just seem that way because you're really, really into it?

I realize I'm on the outside looking in when it comes to metal, but as an old fart, maybe I can provide some perspective. Back in the day, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys and Flipper had different sounds and very different lyrical themes. But we didn't call them "personal politics speedpunk", "socially progressive satirical punk" and "slow nihilist punk". They were just punk, maybe with "hardcore" added.

Slicing the pie so thin seems restrictive to me. No disrespect to the genre intended.

When a genre like metal is so unbelievably broad, being defined by distorted guitar and MAYBE a set of vocal styles (depends on who you ask), each subgenre is entirely justified. I prefer to categorize my music by mood and atmosphere rather than what it sounds like personally, but in defining it to others I will use genre.

Just because somebody is immersed enough in their music to separate black metal from blackened death metal doesn't mean they're an idiot, it means they are refining their taste while keeping the label up to date. In other genres people can specify their preference by just listing a couple of bands they like and calling it a day, but when somebody who is into black metal realizes they prefer the added influence of death metal's depth and riffage, they get ripped on for having labeled their same distinction of taste blackened death metal.

Some days I prefer red and anarchist black metal (RABM, ‪Part 1anopticon LP Intro/Flag Burner Torch Bearer/I Hedonist‬‏ - YouTube ) over suicidal and depressive black metal (SDBM Invalid Link Removed ), they are very different in attitude and mindset, yet share the same black metal sound. I can't go in to listen to a black metal band in the mood for some rebellion and anarchy and expect to get that based on that label alone. If I don't want to be sorely disappointed and jarred into another atmosphere, I really do need to specify that I'm going to listen to some RABM or another genre similar in emotion, some Nationalist/Socialist black metal (NSBM ‪M8L8TH - Beyond the Twilights‬‏ - YouTube) comes to mind. You're kidding yourself if you think I'm deep into the genre to know this much, even in something as confined as black metal, you've got more distinct expressions than I frankly have time to explore. Black metal and folk, hardcore(‪War Desire- The Secret‬‏ - YouTube), drone( ‪Sunn O))) - It Took The Night To Believe‬‏ - YouTube ) etc. also combine to make new sounds and distinct emotions you may or may not want to experience in your search, thus justifying the unique handles of genre.

To say that even most metalheads are computer nerds... I mean really, these generalizations are getting out of hand, you're gonna poke someone's eye out here!

 

[Handyman]

You know, "nerds", those socially awkward annoying types who probably deserved all the beatings and harrasment they got in high school because of their snarky "you don't really understand metal" attitude. The same kind of people who will correct you if you make a joke about Klingon's having pointy ears (instead of Vulcans etc).

I think you're on to something here. Being an engineer, I work with very nerdy people, many of which could best be described as "a bit Aspergery". A large fraction of them are huge metal heads.

 

[Bloodhammer]

I've read a number of interviews by black metal bands, and the impression I've always gotten is that they take themselves WAY too seriously (see the website Mourning the Ancient for examples). For instance, I've always found the guys in Mayhem to be extremely pretentious.

I've never really been a black metal fan, though.

Bill Zebub's prodding might help give you some perspective. Don't bother with Aites' and Ewell's artsy "Until The Light Takes Us." That film was designed to win awards. Watch this one:

Black Metal: The Music of Satan

 

[Radical Edward]

Suicide Silence is awful. Flat out awful.

Yes. Yes they are. They were at a Megadeth concert I went to one year and I wanted to vomit when I heard them. Any "metal" band who has that "Rita from Power Rangers" sound, should probably just stop playing.
Of course, it's just my opinion that people shouldn't sound like pigs squealing.