Thunderbird Club

[Engle]

…which has less bottom end than the CP, which has less bottom end than my Greco, which has less bottom end than the Eppi Special Edition with LP looking pups, which has less bottom end than the Goth, which has a lot less bottom end than my ThunderCaster, which is the Kardashian of bass booty.

You should get an EBO, just to complete the spectrum

 

[GBassNorth]

Tone is in the headstock?

Never tried to quantify it, but I don’t doubt for a second that any significant change in the headstock could have some impact on some aspect of the sound of your bass.

Little bit of background - a few weeks ago I was playing my second best sounding bass (Capped Goth) and got frustrated with the crap stock tuners, so I pulled out a new set of Gotoh Batwing tuners and installed them on the Goth. Put the strings back on, and Crap, a dead spot on the D string that was never there before. Took the G and D tuners off and swapped them, dead D still there in the exact same spot (so it’s not the specific tuner). Put the original crap stock D tuner back on and the dead spot is gone. Both the Gotoh and stock tuners fit the headstock holes equally well (so not a slop fit difference).

Apparently something as simple as a slightly lighter tuning machine can impact the resonance or vibration of at least the D string on the neck, directly effecting what the pickup sees magnetically and the resulting sound the bass puts out. Could a significantly different weight headstock have an impact? Quite possibly. Would it be noticeable, who knows. Can it be quantified, wood has too many variables to make it worth quantifying, just mark it down as a known attribute of varying consequence and move on.

 

[GBassNorth]

You should get an EBO, just to complete the spectrum

I have two SG Supreme basses with pickups in the Mudbucker positions but neither are true mudbuckers and neither have the booty of the Thundercaster. Which EBO years had the massive bottom end?

 

[Ringhammer]

find the “right” strings and gauge for the birds.
Right now I’m liking the Power steels quite a bit.

TI PowerBass strings are what made my VP awesome. Slightly heavier gauge (.107) and just the right tension for me.

 

[GBassNorth]

Are they really that much different? Compare the distance from the G saddle to the pickup. The bridge is placed too far forward on the VP, so all the saddles are further back.

Just measured the first run 2017 VP and the current ‘64 Purple Sparkle basses from centerline of the 12th fret to the centerline of the neck pickup (as identified by the screw head placement) and there is virtually no difference between the two that can’t be accounted for in acceptable tolerances. The actual difference is 1/16 of an inch (10-29/32” for the VP vs 10-27/32” for the ‘64). The difference could easily be accounted for in the build up of tolerances on the unit to unit difference in fret locations plus the slop of the route for the pickup, the slop of the pickup located in the route, combined with any normal tolerances in the drilling of the screw holes in the pickup cover, combined with any slop in the screw in the pickup. Plus or minus one 32nd of an inch is well within the tolerance stack up for something like this.

I’m calling them virtually identical on neck pup placement.

 

[Stealth57]

Marshall, need another?

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

The 760s just don't have the bass and lo-mids, I didn't really like my white VP until the Gibson re-issues got dropped in, now I love it - the headstock is still stupid big tho.


Not exactly, there's neck pitch, and pickup position differences, I'm spending a lot of time with my two Epi '64s lately because they're going to the next show.
Through the Ashdown/SWR, they sound pretty damn good.

most basses will through that rig....have you gigged the 64 with that setup?..

 

[TBird1958]

WWWWWWWWWWwwwednsday.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

The problem in measuring from the bridge stud is that Epiphone has a long history of mounting its two piece bridge in the wrong spot on specific runs of the VP and the Eppi Embassy. On many early VPs (some months after the initial release in 2017) they put out a batch of birds with the bridge too close to the 12th fret, requiring users to back the E string saddle back as far as it would go to intonate properly. That could account for the difference you’re seeing.

To be clear, I wasn't measuring the pickup differences here, just giving a common visual reference. And yes, the bridge position is the problem with intonation.

I’d be interested to see what the difference between the two models is when measured from the 12th fret on your basses. I’ll measure mine as well since I know I don’t have the bridge location issue in either of my basses.

My subsequent post covers just such measurements and I added the 64 numbers to the wiki. Please feel free to add yours.

Update: just measured the first run 2017 VP and the current ‘64 Purple Sparkle basses from centerline of the 12th fret to the centerline of the neck pickup (as identified by the screw head placement) and there is virtually no difference between the two that can’t be accounted for in acceptable tolerances. The actual difference is 1/16 of an inch (10-29/32” for the VP vs 10-27/32” for the ‘64). The difference could easily be accounted for in the build up of tolerances on the unit to unit difference in fret locations plus the slop of the route for the pickup, the slop of the pickup located in the route, combined with any normal tolerances in the drilling of the screw holes in the pickup cover, combined with any slop in the screw in the pickup. Plus or minus one 32nd of an inch is well within the tolerance stack up for something like this.

I’m calling them virtually identical on neck pup placement.

One of mine was about that close, the other was slightly further. But yeah, they weren't very far apart. I doubt anyone but Eric Johnson can tell the difference in 1/8" difference, never mind 1/16".

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Never tried to quantify it, but I don’t doubt for a second that any significant change in the headstock could have some impact on some aspect of the sound of your bass.

Little bit of background - a few weeks ago I was playing my second best sounding bass (Capped Goth) and got frustrated with the crap stock tuners, so I pulled out a new set of Gotoh Batwing tuners and installed them on the Goth. Put the strings back on, and Crap, a dead spot on the D string that was never there before. Took the G and D tuners off and swapped them, dead D still there in the exact same spot (so it’s not the specific tuner). Put the original crap stock D tuner back on and the dead spot is gone. Both the Gotoh and stock tuners fit the headstock holes equally well (so not a slop fit difference).

Apparently something as simple as a slightly lighter tuning machine can impact the resonance or vibration of at least the D string on the neck, directly effecting what the pickup sees magnetically and the resulting sound the bass puts out. Could a significantly different weight headstock have an impact? Quite possibly. Would it be noticeable, who knows. Can it be quantified, wood has too many variables to make it worth quantifying, just mark it down as a known attribute of varying consequence and move on.

Yeah. There are a crazy number of factors affecting resonances. My motto is "Everything affects everything else."

 

[Miles_ONeal]

most basses will through that rig....have you gigged the 64 with that setup?..

Some brand was discussed here that had reliability issues. It wasn't Ashdown, right?

 

[TBird1958]

most basses will through that rig....have you gigged the 64 with that setup?..

With the Trace Elliott, yes, it's lovely. That pickup has a deeper voice, more bass and lo-mids and I love playing it out in front of a lot of people - I just have to save it for larger stages as our singer is very careless in her
onstage movements and has run into me and several of my basses quite a few times now.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

With the Trace Elliott, yes, it's lovely. That pickup has a deeper voice, more bass and lo-mids and I love playing it out in front of a lot of people - I just have to save it for larger stages as our singer is very careless in her
onstage movements and has run into me and several of my basses quite a few times now.

You need a cactus headstock!

 

[dagrev]

The EBCFs and Thunderbuckers are a great combo. But if I try different strings, those are on the list.

I liked the EBCFs on the while VP. But I have this disease....

 

[dagrev]

The problem in measuring from the bridge stud is that Epiphone has a long history of mounting its two piece bridge in the wrong spot on specific runs of the VP and the Eppi Embassy. On many early VPs (some months after the initial release in 2017) they put out a batch of birds with the bridge too close to the 12th fret, requiring users to back the E string saddle back as far as it would go to intonate properly. That could account for the difference you’re seeing.

I’d be interested to see what the difference between the two models is when measured from the 12th fret on your basses. I’ll measure mine as well since I know I don’t have the bridge location issue in either of my basses.

Update: just measured the first run 2017 VP and the current ‘64 Purple Sparkle basses from centerline of the 12th fret to the centerline of the neck pickup (as identified by the screw head placement) and there is virtually no difference between the two that can’t be accounted for in acceptable tolerances. The actual difference is 1/16 of an inch (10-29/32” for the VP vs 10-27/32” for the ‘64). The difference could easily be accounted for in the build up of tolerances on the unit to unit difference in fret locations plus the slop of the route for the pickup, the slop of the pickup located in the route, combined with any normal tolerances in the drilling of the screw holes in the pickup cover, combined with any slop in the screw in the pickup. Plus or minus one 32nd of an inch is well within the tolerance stack up for something like this.

I’m calling them virtually identical on neck pup placement.

Great info! Why do we get so excited about these kinds of things?

 

[dagrev]

Never tried to quantify it, but I don’t doubt for a second that any significant change in the headstock could have some impact on some aspect of the sound of your bass.

Little bit of background - a few weeks ago I was playing my second best sounding bass (Capped Goth) and got frustrated with the crap stock tuners, so I pulled out a new set of Gotoh Batwing tuners and installed them on the Goth. Put the strings back on, and Crap, a dead spot on the D string that was never there before. Took the G and D tuners off and swapped them, dead D still there in the exact same spot (so it’s not the specific tuner). Put the original crap stock D tuner back on and the dead spot is gone. Both the Gotoh and stock tuners fit the headstock holes equally well (so not a slop fit difference).

Apparently something as simple as a slightly lighter tuning machine can impact the resonance or vibration of at least the D string on the neck, directly effecting what the pickup sees magnetically and the resulting sound the bass puts out. Could a significantly different weight headstock have an impact? Quite possibly. Would it be noticeable, who knows. Can it be quantified, wood has too many variables to make it worth quantifying, just mark it down as a known attribute of varying consequence and move on.

Even more interesting! Never saw that one coming, but your explanation certainly makes sense. The material and density of anything pertaining to string vibration certainly would have some impact. Some imperceptible to the human ear but still there (if one could find a mechanical ear).

 

[dagrev]

With the Trace Elliott, yes, it's lovely. That pickup has a deeper voice, more bass and lo-mids and I love playing it out in front of a lot of people - I just have to save it for larger stages as our singer is very careless in her
onstage movements and has run into me and several of my basses quite a few times now.

This will stop that kind of thing. May take one time to unlearn the bad habit.
EDIT: as usual, Miles and I are on the same wave length.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Just measured the first run 2017 VP and the current ‘64 Purple Sparkle basses from centerline of the 12th fret to the centerline of the neck pickup (as identified by the screw head placement) and there is virtually no difference between the two that can’t be accounted for in acceptable tolerances. The actual difference is 1/16 of an inch (10-29/32” for the VP vs 10-27/32” for the ‘64). The difference could easily be accounted for in the build up of tolerances on the unit to unit difference in fret locations plus the slop of the route for the pickup, the slop of the pickup located in the route, combined with any normal tolerances in the drilling of the screw holes in the pickup cover, combined with any slop in the screw in the pickup. Plus or minus one 32nd of an inch is well within the tolerance stack up for something like this.

I’m calling them virtually identical on neck pup placement.

The intonation issues is less about an incorrect placement of the bridge, than it is about loose tolerance parts used for the bridge components on the “vintage” assembly.

My VP has a HORRIBLY sloppy bridge assembly, the bridge wants to lean towards the nut. The 64 less so.
The lean is bad enough that it REALLY affects the intonation. The threads on the posts and inserts are so loose the post can move almost a MM! Forward and back/side to side. when you look at the lean it’s cumulative contributions of slop in the threads and the slots in the bridge/post joint.

I partially corrected the issue by placing strips of solder in the threads of the sleeves in the body.

I’m devising a thin u shaped brass shim to go on the nut side of the post, under the bridge plate to take up the slack in that assembly.

I’ll chronical my attempts to correct these mechanical shortcomings.

 

[sleddogn]

Just scored a used Epi 64' Silver Mist version for 500. Will have it tomorrow.. hope i did good, lol

 

[Gaolee]

Are they really that much different? Compare the distance from the G saddle to the pickup. The bridge is placed too far forward on the VP, so all the saddles are further back.

Sounds like I misread the tape measures. I thought from the photos that there was a difference. It doesn't appear that there is the difference I thought there was.