Tone wood

[micguy]

I think especially of those who believe that wood breathes.

Wood does breathe. If you have a scale that’s sensitive enough, and you weigh you bass in the summer and winter, you’ll find it weighs less in the winter - it “exhales” moisture when it’s dry, and inhales when it’s damp. Yes, I’ve done this - I’m a weight nerd.

 

[Machiavelli]

Putting my Physicist hat on, if something on the bass is resonating, it has vibrational energy - where did it get that energy from? Yes, it got it from the string(s).

If you’ve ever had a bass with a pronounced dead spot, you’ll recognize that the neck is VERY resonant at that frequency , and it does indeed steal energy from the string - at an alarming rate.

But its going to vary based on the specific wood in the bass. Otherwise, all alder basses would have a dead spot on the 14th fret or something. I know thats not your point but:

-Wood has an impact on sound
-Even if something has an impact, it doesnt mean that it is an important impact
-Nobody can tell the difference between basses based on wood alone in a blind experiment. And if they can, it might be something like 10% of all bassists. And probably 1% of average listeners (totally made up stats)
-there is a lot of variety in a species of wood. Its not legitimate to make broad genealizations
-the effect of a body top is even more obscure
-any difference could probably be corrected by a 1/8 turn on an eq knob.
- How a bass looks has an impact both on how the player plays and what the audience expects


So, I stand by: the color will make more of a difference.

 

[40Hz]

If body wood is so important... why do most of the very high-end builders use alder or ash? Why is the Bongo the 'lowly' basswood? Wouldn't the 60+ years of solid-body work have unearthed more high-end tonewoods than the cheapest, most readily available wood that Leo could find? And how do they chamber these things, and yet still get such a high-quality sound?

I know it's pointless to argue, just postulating.

Precisely.

Alder and ash are used for all the usual reasons any material gets selected.

They…

• are suitable for the task
• are domestically sourced
• are readily available and in abundant supply
• are relatively inexpensive
• are easy to work with
• are easy on tooling

If a certain body wood, neck attachment method, bridge material and mass, and fingerboard wood made a clearly superior solid-body instrument every single time, then all the deep pocketed major manufacturers would already be building all their instruments to those specs. But they don’t because it’s unpredictable, and doesn’t make that big a difference anyway.

On the other hand, strings and pickups (and amps and effects) do have a significant and readily noticeable impact on the ultimate sound of an instrument. And as a result, that’s where most of the ongoing development in the guitar world is taking place.

 

[Vinny_G]

Wood does breathe. If you have a scale that’s sensitive enough, and you weigh you bass in the summer and winter, you’ll find it weighs less in the winter - it “exhales” moisture when it’s dry, and inhales when it’s damp. Yes, I’ve done this - I’m a weight nerd.

Under 1mm of paint? Do you really believe that? Unless you talk about that wood

 

[micguy]

But its going to vary based on the specific wood in the bass. Otherwise, all alder basses would have a dead spot on the 14th fret or something. I know thats not your point but:

-Wood has an impact on sound
-Even if something has an impact, it doesnt mean that it is an important impact
-Nobody can tell the difference between basses based on wood alone in a blind experiment. And if they can, it might be something like 10% of all bassists. And probably 1% of average listeners (totally made up stats)
-there is a lot of variety in a species of wood. Its not legitimate to make broad genealizations
-the effect of a body top is even more obscure
-any difference could probably be corrected by a 1/8 turn on an eq knob.
- How a bass looks has an impact both on how the player plays and what the audience expects


So, I stand by: the color will make more of a difference.

We disagree. The wood in the neck determines, along with the mass loading on its ends , how pronounced the reduced sustain areas are - when one gives rise to a full blown dead spot, most folks will notice rather easily. Yes, wood can (and in some cases does) make an audible difference.

 

[Jay2U]

Wood does breathe. If you have a scale that’s sensitive enough, and you weigh you bass in the summer and winter, you’ll find it weighs less in the winter - it “exhales” moisture when it’s dry, and inhales when it’s damp. Yes, I’ve done this - I’m a weight nerd.

For me it's the other way round. In the winter I weigh more, as I sleep more, eat more and move less.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

The materials that a bass is made from do affect its performance; the question is how much, and of course, if the differences are audible. If you're looking for sharp aggressive sound, the place that wood makes the most difference is in the fretboard - maple and ebony are the two usual suggestions for sharpening things up.

As the Acoustical Physicist 'round these parts, I'll throw in that the thing that affects the strings' vibrations are its end conditions. What that means in practical terms is, at the ends of the vibrating portion of the string, what it's attached to matters. If you don't believe that, play a fretless - it sounds very different, because one of the ends has a finger rather than a piece of metal defining what's going on. If you want the most "attacky" sound, the bridge is not the area to look to - any bridge is 100x (maybe more) massive than the lowly fret on the other end of the string. Focus on the frets - big, stainless frets will put the most, stiffest metal under that end of the string, and will make the wood appear harder, as there is more surface area being coupled to the fret (you use snow shoes to walk when the "ground" is soft snow, same principle here). This will affect the tone in the direction you seek. Some folks like banjo (really small) frets (Lee Sklar, for example). Why? because they aren't "attacky".

Really wonderful, micguy. Made me wish I had thought of it.
*
I wanted to post about the difference a maple cap makes on for example Les Paul vs SG, but I don't know how much difference it would make on a bass. Happy with poplar, myself.

 

[micguy]

Under 1mm of paint? Do you really believe that? Unless you talk about that wood

Fenders aren’t hermetically sealed - under the pickups, in the control cavity, and under the neck there are areas with less or no paint. Also, plastic breathes more than most folks think it does - in my line of work, moisture absorption of plastics (they absorb moisture and pass it through because the material is porous) is a concern; if you consult a plastics manufacturer, they have data on this for their plastics, because it isn’t zero.

 

[Vinny_G]

Fenders aren’t hermetically sealed - under the pickups, in the control cavity, and under the neck there are areas with less or no paint. Also, plastic breathes more than most folks think it does - in my line of work, moisture absorption of plastics (they absorb moisture and pass it through because the material is porous) is a concern; if you consult a plastics manufacturer, they have data on this for their plastics, because it isn’t zero.

It seems logical.

 

[Vinny_G]

Speaking of wood, I found something to relax the atmosphere.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

That was said in the ‘80s when there where these multi laminated coffee table basses that didn’t resonate. You want a stiff neck whether it’s the wood like maple or something making it rigid like graphite bars or another wood. Ask the builder why for any combination.

The Warmoth steel rods you'd think would be best for metal. No obvious effect on sound.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

The Warmoth steel rods you'd think would be best for metal. No obvious effect on sound.

I’ve heard story of violinists putting rattlesnake tails in their instrument. I guess it was mostly fiddle playing, bluegrass musicians.

I’m going to go nuts here and say the steel rod impacts your overall sound. Think about it.

 

[chadds]

Graphite rods can make an amazing difference. I had them added when my fretboard was removed to repair a trussrod wrecked by an overzealous under experienced repairman. It sustains for minutes.

However we are on TB and you can’t hear the difference between two Basses. Because we’re talking.

Some here rely so heavily on the color of their amps or cabs or eq or pedals that none of us could hear a distinction. So I get it when folks say body material is insignificant. If you use transparent gear set flat or nearly then it’s all sonically there for the hearing.

Of course in blindfold tests people can’t tell which woods. Do it with Luthiers. Yes, sonic characteristics vary in specimens from the same tree!

Meanwhile that Stainless bass is missing every character that wood gives. Great axe for pedals but the distinction between that and a good P or bouteeqee is obvious.

If I heard that blindfolded I’d say it was an assembled sample or a very average bass with budget electronics through a very bad DI that was only passing some frequencies.

Frankly I’m glad that was included. I went to the site and listened to more. They really make the point that that’s what pickups bridge and nut do alone.

Without being crass......”give me wood!”

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Let's be real....you saw the thread title and scoured your pantry for some movie butter popcorn.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

PS - since sarcasm can't be read, I honestly can't tell the real answers from the trolls

 

[dkelley]

Too many laminations and you have the sound of glue it’s been said.

tell that to Alembic (as I say in every thread where someone says that)

 

[jamro217]

Welcome to TB. Maple would be a good choice. It is heavy, so if you use it for the body as well as the neck chambering it may help. It is similar in sound to ebony but is cheaper and isn't prone to drying out and cracking. Not sure if it is as readily available to you in Iran as it is here in the USA. Hope this helps.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I’m getting ready to lay out several $K on a deposit to have a bass built. One benefit of patronizing a truly great luthier is not having to ask a bunch of interweb bell ends what wood he should use.

 

[doomprophet8]

One thing that's being ignored here is construction method. Is it a neck-through, set-neck or bolt-on. Those have a profound effect on the tone and will help to narrow down which neck woods will be better for your tonal goals.

As a reference, you mentioned Nolly. His most-used bass for recording has an alder body, 5-piece maple neck (bolt-on), maple fretboard and medium to low mass individual bridge pieces, thin fret wire. So an alder body, maple neck, ebony fretboard in either bolt-on or set neck will be close, especially if you also use low mass fret wire and bridge. With a set-neck, adding the maple top will actually help get it even closer. A lot of his tone comes from the pickup type and configuration, though, much more than the wood choices, IMO.

My construction is bolt on . Yeah I am through it . Thanks

 

[doomprophet8]

I think what you were planning on using for wood choices can give you exactly what you’re after with the right pickups, etc. Solid Alder is a fine choice for the body. Don’t bother with a top wood over the alder for tonal purposes. A multi-piece maple/wenge neck with an ebony fretboard should be great, as that stiff shaft with a dense/hard fretboard. You could probably put that neck on a pine body with the right electronics and still get a bright, punchy, aggressive tone. Best of luck with the custom build. Post pics and let us know how it turns out when it’s done!

Thanks . For sure

Just to throw some kindling on the building bonfire - body wood is almost the least important thing IME. If you want it transparent, get a cool grain. Otherwise, get as light a wood as you can find. Invest/research more in the electronics & neck.