Still nada to do with ''wave development'', which is a non term for something that does not exist.
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Trying to get the same tone from amp and PA
- Thread starter Berberdeng
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- amps cabinets
Call it what you like but it's fully developed one nanometer from the cone.
Yes, this. Lows tend to come out omnidirectional, because the speakers are small compared to the wavelengths they're producing. Thus, bass is harder to control. Also, highs and mids tend to diffuse with distance, so the rumbling lows are the most prominent part left when you get further away from the speakers.
Incorrect terminology on my part trying to put it in layman's terms. Shouldn't have used "develop".
You know, seeing all those interference patterns makes me wonder if the standard model of a PA stack each side of the stage is distinctly sub optimal, especially when it comes to instruments and voices panned towards the centre. Maybe there would be advantages in having separate arrays, perhaps flown above the band's heads, for each instrument in the desired stereo position? The arrangement, I suppose, would be even more prone to problems caused by directional sound from each array, so maybe the advantages would be minimal in practice. The expense would probably be nightmarish... The follow up to the ill informed speculation makes me also wonder about say a x into 8 channel mixer, with each channel powering a separate overhead array across the stereo image... Perhaps I'd better go and lie down and come back when I'm sensible... Anyway, someone's bound to have tried it.
Yeah that occurred to me, I don't know how it was actually managed though.
I threw hundreds of dollars at my DI line for this purpose. I could have gotten away with less, but I wanted it to be REALLY good.
Don't agree. You absolutely can make it sound just like your cab, and with rare exceptions, the sound I'm getting out of my amp is what I want in the PA, and also what I think works best in a room.
What amp do you have? Some DIrect outs skip the Amp EQ, etc.
it’s Also entirely plausible the PA sounds terrible. It’s pretty expensive to get PA speakers with tweeters that aren’t overbearing and brittle. Also gives the acoustic guitars Piezo pickups That “broken glass” sound quality that you hear so often.
If the tweeter sucks, there will really no way to get those frequencies to sound good because you’re hearing the sound of the PA speaker, but you can’t cut the highs out entirely because the sound goes dull and the mixing board will Probably have A 4 band EQ max so you’re stuck with high end that should never be there or no high end that should be there. Your bass probably isn’t getting run to a compressor and graphic EQ up there.
now if your DI is sending a good sounding signal and the PA and speakers are good, it could just be the sound guy is making it sound bad on purpose. Someone probably likes it. That could just be “church bass tone” he’s going for. Active preamp run direct with the highs boosted.
That also sometimes happens when the old people in the audience who are donating all the money are scared by bass. The trebly sound lets everyone hear you even if they’re kinda deaf or have loose bowels. You’re getting the church FM piano treatment.
So often the church sound guy isn’t going for what he likes, he’s going for what the boss writing his paycheck likes.
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Talking to the sound guy usually works wonders 
Talking to the sound guy usually works wonders
I love our sound guy. We wouldn’t be an award winning band without him, I feel. The sound he dials in isn’t bad by any means, it’s just different and not the tone I work so tirelessly to dial in. I’ve talked to him about it before, but he either doesn’t really notice it or maybe doesn’t quite understand what I mean. I also don’t want to be rude and nag him when obviously we sound good to the house regardless.
Thank you all for your insights. I’ve got some good tricks to try whenever we finally get to playing out again.
I'm not sure that stage and PA sounds are supposed to be the same. They are doing different things.
I guess if you want the sound coming out of the PA to match your sound on stage, just invite the sound guy to stand on the stage and listen to you. Then ask him to get that sound out of the PA.
This presupposes that "your" sound is good in the band mix. I've seen guys loving their sound on stage and sounding bad out front. Maybe you have to trust the PA guy to be getting a great band sound.
I guess if you want the sound coming out of the PA to match your sound on stage, just invite the sound guy to stand on the stage and listen to you. Then ask him to get that sound out of the PA.
This presupposes that "your" sound is good in the band mix. I've seen guys loving their sound on stage and sounding bad out front. Maybe you have to trust the PA guy to be getting a great band sound.
Totally different applications, bass amps are optimized for, go figure, bass.
PA is for everything including bass, so you have horns/tweeters in a PA some bass rigs don't.
A PA can push a heck of a lot more sound pressure than a bass amp.
And it's called sound reinforcement for a reason, if you're too loud on stage, you won't be
getting much coverage in the PA.
Bottom line, if you want the PA to sound like your rig, mic it.
Good luck,
Dirk
PA is for everything including bass, so you have horns/tweeters in a PA some bass rigs don't.
A PA can push a heck of a lot more sound pressure than a bass amp.
And it's called sound reinforcement for a reason, if you're too loud on stage, you won't be
getting much coverage in the PA.
Bottom line, if you want the PA to sound like your rig, mic it.
Good luck,
Dirk
- how can you ensure that the sound coming out of your amp (behind you) is the sound the audience wants to hear out front?
- and if your audience doesn't care about the sound of your amp (behind you), why do you care that they hear what you want them to hear?
- also: what should we do when we realize we don't control the sound coming from the PA and that we only control the sound coming from an amp (behind us)?
IME: a competent FOH means i don't have to worry about anything but playing = huge relief! --- because my precious tone (
) is getting to the audience in the best way possible: via other competent 'artists'/ears and their great equipment...a true, team of experts! --- delivering the goods to the masses!last: are you happy with your tones (out of the PA) when soloing?
best of luck communicating with the FOH folks in your life, OP!
A bass cab/speaker is very different than a PA cab/speaker... and the bass cab is one of the most important components of "your sound." A lot of guys would argue that the cab is more important than the amp. This is why some guys are suggesting "cab sim" or "speaker sim." It makes the PA speaker sound like a bass speaker.
Your cab is helping shape the sound of the bass, and when you put it in the PA, you are hearing a lot of stuff that is not there on stage. Clacky and defined to me sounds like top end... your bass cab might start rolling off the top end around 4kHz. The PA cab might not start rolling off until 20kHz. Thats a whole lot of top end that can pick up pick noise, fret noise, treble and other things that go "clack."
I'm gonna kinda pull a @Stumbo - but just the opposite - You need a LPF (low pass filter).
But ya,,, talking to the sound man is probably first. Ask him to roll off the high end. His board might have a built in LPF even. And if he gets it right, buy him a beer.
At least my take on things...
