That's strange, I did not know that about the 800. I sure can't push my 700rb ii like that. Or my Eden Nemesis stuff. Am I doing something wrong?
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Tube 300w vs Solid-state 300w?
- Thread starter crguti
- Start date
That's strange, I did not know that about the 800. I sure can't push my 700rb ii like that. Or my Eden Nemesis stuff. Am I doing something wrong?
I’m always confused by these discussions. Any volume differences can be easily offset with a mic’d cab or DI as to make the point somewhat moot.
Sheer volume is one thing…but I can’t imagine any scenario that 1) one NEEDS X amount of watts and 2) there is no PA support.
Sheer volume is one thing…but I can’t imagine any scenario that 1) one NEEDS X amount of watts and 2) there is no PA support.
As many have said, watts are watts. The difference is that when a tube is driven into distortion there is a range above its' rated distortion where it gets louder and has a rather musical sound while producing distortion above its' clean rating. The solid state amps I've owned were clean up to their rated power but once driven into distortion did not sound musical.
Try turning down the Masters and cranking up the Boost control.
The boost circuit is a single FET designed to give the amp a tubey quality, but you have to hit the circuit fairly hard if you want to bring this quality out. The 800RB and 400RB had similar boost circuits.
IMHO the Volume should be called Gain. It sets the level feeding the preamp and tone network. Volume also determines how hot the signal is that hits the Boost control. The Boost control determine how much of the available signal is passed to the Boost circuit. I suggest setting the volume for a nice hot signal, but not so hot that you cause distortion in the preamp or tone network. This part of the amp does not clip gracefully IMHO, although some like it. Next set the Boost control for the desired tubey quality. As you turn up the Boost the sound will become compressed and the grindy. After you achieve the desire sound and feel, adjust the Master for how loud you want to play.
IMHO it works well, but it's sort of confusing and also a bit of an hassle.
Knowing full well that watts are watts, opinions are just that, and anecdotes aren't science...
I've been through a gamut of popular 7-800W (or more) Class D heads (won't name names). They were loud, but somehow all have lacked the right feel/depth/harmonic complexity, with or without any of my extensive pedal collection.
My current class A/B amp for a while is a GK 1001RBII (700W at 4ohm). Brutally loud, seemingly bottomless low end and headroom. Decent modern grind and clank, especially with boost knob, certainly not warm.
Not long ago got my first tube amp, Peavey VB-2 (225W). It is equally subjectively loud as the GK, with better (to my ears) voicing. Rich and complex, can go from clean to warm/fat with Resonance knob adjustment, but remain articulate and responsive. Amazing value ($600 used, made in US). Good complement to the RB.
Both the GK and Peavey are subjectively louder and *much* better sounding than any Class D I've tried so far (through the same cabs). The lightweight appeal hasn't yet been enough to offset the apparent tonal compromises, and I envy those who can't tell the difference, or don't mind it. My mind, ears, and wallet remain open to change though.
I've been through a gamut of popular 7-800W (or more) Class D heads (won't name names). They were loud, but somehow all have lacked the right feel/depth/harmonic complexity, with or without any of my extensive pedal collection.
My current class A/B amp for a while is a GK 1001RBII (700W at 4ohm). Brutally loud, seemingly bottomless low end and headroom. Decent modern grind and clank, especially with boost knob, certainly not warm.
Not long ago got my first tube amp, Peavey VB-2 (225W). It is equally subjectively loud as the GK, with better (to my ears) voicing. Rich and complex, can go from clean to warm/fat with Resonance knob adjustment, but remain articulate and responsive. Amazing value ($600 used, made in US). Good complement to the RB.
Both the GK and Peavey are subjectively louder and *much* better sounding than any Class D I've tried so far (through the same cabs). The lightweight appeal hasn't yet been enough to offset the apparent tonal compromises, and I envy those who can't tell the difference, or don't mind it. My mind, ears, and wallet remain open to change though.
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It all depends on how much the tube amp weighs. The heavier the amp the louder it will be.
It's all down to the tone woods that the watts are made from.
No, no. I'm not of the opinion that anything which could bring out a character I love to be anything like a hassle. I appreciate the tip, and I'm going to try it. I have been achieving a really nice grind by jamming a B7K in front of it, but if I can bring out MORE of that and it's audibly pleasing? Man, I'm here for it!
My Peavey Headliner amp head is only one of a number of class D amps that do great emulations of tube amp response. I once posted in a Talkbass thread that it's the loudest amp for its rated output i've ever used, including my tube bass amps. A Peavey engineer who had been involved in its design responded to my post, saying that that head was all about "unbridled volume." Like a tube head, the Headliner becomes much more mid-range focused at high volume: subjectively louder and much better sounding (to my ears, because of the tube-like exaggerated mid-range and compression) than most other amps I've played through.
Or the kool-aid is drunk from a 6550 glass bottle
I never thought of Charlie Watt as loud. But he’s a drummer so sure. He counts.
I'd rather be able to sculpt my desired tone at any volume. If the desired tone is only available at 300W flat out then on stage volume could be an issue. I don't want to have to run my class D amp into an attenuator!
I should have mentioned that the Headliner amp has a Crunch knob---very effective for bringing on subtle (or less subtle) tube-like distortion at any volume level.
No doubt a 300w SVT gets the job done every time, and twice on Sunday, but at 80+lbs just for the head, I do "care about how the sound got there". Hence why most of us are looking for/have found sufficient alternatives at less than a tenth the weight.As long as it’s loud enough an sounds good, who cares about how the sound got there. A good amp for bass just gets the job done. A crappy amp for bass doesn’t.
Just for fun and nothing scientific:
Friday morning in my classroom, I dimed the master and the volume on my YGL-3 (4xEL34’s) with a Yamaha digital piano (also dimed). Cab is an homemade shallow one with a Peavey black Widow 4ohms. This was on the « effects » channel, more gain than the 1st channel.
Keep also in mind that the piano is line level…
Just hitting the lowest C (once and short) to look at the expression of the kids in the classroom… Don’t worry, I was near the cab and they were far away.
It was incredibly powerfully crazy loud for about one second. A coffee cup I forgot on the cab obviously felt on the floor! We all felt everything shaking around. It’s just a guitar amp after all.
This one is « supposed » to be 80w clean and maybe (if the planets are well aligned) 150w full blast.
I couldn’t imagine playing my bass at this level. I know, it’s not a stage and it’s only a big rectangular room but well, volume is also about perception too I would guess. BTW, the note was relatively clean to my ears…
**No experience with SS bass gear so take it with a grain of salt!
Friday morning in my classroom, I dimed the master and the volume on my YGL-3 (4xEL34’s) with a Yamaha digital piano (also dimed). Cab is an homemade shallow one with a Peavey black Widow 4ohms. This was on the « effects » channel, more gain than the 1st channel.
Keep also in mind that the piano is line level…
Just hitting the lowest C (once and short) to look at the expression of the kids in the classroom… Don’t worry, I was near the cab and they were far away.
It was incredibly powerfully crazy loud for about one second. A coffee cup I forgot on the cab obviously felt on the floor! We all felt everything shaking around. It’s just a guitar amp after all.
This one is « supposed » to be 80w clean and maybe (if the planets are well aligned) 150w full blast.
I couldn’t imagine playing my bass at this level. I know, it’s not a stage and it’s only a big rectangular room but well, volume is also about perception too I would guess. BTW, the note was relatively clean to my ears…
**No experience with SS bass gear so take it with a grain of salt!
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