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Tube 300w vs Solid-state 300w?
- Thread starter crguti
- Start date
Total Harmonic Distortion, or THD, has a lot to do with it. I believe that’s the “soft clipping” you’re referring to. So even though a tube amp is rated at X wattage at 10% THD you may be able to push it to 20% THD and still sound good which would sound like trash garbage on a solid state, technically yielding more watts than the rating. In short, tube amps tend to sound good overdriven and solid state tends not to. Talking power amps not pre-amps. Check out the manuals for a bunch of amps and see the THD ratings. Amps that tend to “punch above their weight”. Are usually rated at low THD, that gives you the impression it’s a lower powered amp on paper but than you can pull more out of it than you “should be able to”. This makes you a happy customer. No one ever talks about THD, people will talk about dB at 1 watt at 1 meter, but not THD which is a measure of how cleanly and accurately it’s amplifying the signal. At worst you could call a 100 watt rms amp a 700 watt peak power amp…it may be able to make 700 watts…for a fraction of a second and distorted as hell (very high THD) In the end it’s near impossible to make an apples to apples comparison because of all the variables.
Think of it this way: a Dodge Hellcat is rated at over 700 hp. It's fast. An ISM Cummins diesel is rated at 450 hp. It can pull a trailer full of freight over the Rockies. I wouldn't expect either one to do the other's job. Tube amps have that voice that makes you quiver. SS is clean and remains so no matter how loud you turn it up. Once you get to the volume that is loud enough, the tone is what you're after. One way to achieve the best of both worlds is to use a tube preamp and a SS power amp. Ratings can be manipulated to seem impressive for marketing purposes.
Every single one I have ever owned? It was true of it. I'd love to get my hands on a SS I could push beyond its means and still get good, usable tone. I haven't met it yet.
This makes no sense whatsoever. Whoever explained it was deficient in their argument. My experience shows SS can compete with tubes.
I used to use tubes but I find modern heads are smaller , lighter , and have a ton of headroom . Never had to dime any of the Class D heads I’ve used , so they can certainly get a lot louder than I’ve ever run them .
I do love the overall tone I’m getting today with modern cabs and Class D heads . No desire for a big tube head , but I keep looking at little tube pre amps , like Monique .
I do love the overall tone I’m getting today with modern cabs and Class D heads . No desire for a big tube head , but I keep looking at little tube pre amps , like Monique .
Using a HPF will help get more out of a ss amp by trimming those uncompressed lower frequencies. Different method, similar effect.
This. The last time I played my bass through a tube amp I owned must have been the late 70s. I have never wished for another.
(actually that's not quite true. I have used my 1W tube guitar Blackstar as a practice amp for working out arrangements, but that doesn't really count).
A famous tube amp clipping
Where's that soft clipping?
Where's that soft clipping?
But 300W into 16 speakers is naturally louder than 300W into 2 or 4 speakers
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,653
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
You need to get out more then.
The easiest, most obvious example is the GK 800RB, it does what it does very well and pretty much buried the myth that solid state power amps driven hard couldn't sound good. There are others...
Speaker area is more important for volume. A 300 watt SVT through an 8x10 is loud because of the speaker volume and efficiency not just the watts.
As for tubes vs ss. I always thought it was because tube amps sound great cranked and ss not so much. So two amps may be rated the same but if you can crank the tube amp to 10 but the ss runs out of headroom and starts sounding poopy at 7 so you don't go above that, the tube sounds louder because it has more usable range. I figure this is why the GK rb amps are the few ss amps that are known to be comparable to tube volume, because they are the few ss amps that sound good cranked to the limit (see hitting the rails).
As for tubes vs ss. I always thought it was because tube amps sound great cranked and ss not so much. So two amps may be rated the same but if you can crank the tube amp to 10 but the ss runs out of headroom and starts sounding poopy at 7 so you don't go above that, the tube sounds louder because it has more usable range. I figure this is why the GK rb amps are the few ss amps that are known to be comparable to tube volume, because they are the few ss amps that sound good cranked to the limit (see hitting the rails).
This is a silly statement.
Pick any 8 ohm speaker load, apply a measured 1 watt from any amplifier, and it'll achieve the same sound pressure level, every time.
I’ve owned several excellent solid state amplifiers a Walter Woods MI/400/8 (400 watts) a Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra (600 watts), and a Monique M700 Poweramp. I’ve driven Euphonic Audio EA VL 208’s, VL 210’s, Audiokinesis TC 112. SWR 410’s, SVT 810’s all at outdoor festivals at loud stage volumes. In every circumstance I had plenty of headroom even in a 12 piece big band.
Whos says Im comparing it to 2, or 4 speakers??
One buddy has the SVT and 16 x 10 Altec 425A speakers he bought new, and ordered with the upgraded Altec speakers. The other buddy has an old Hiwatt DR201 hes had since new 1972, and has 8 JBL K120s. He was trying to be Greg Lake back in the day. Those are loaded in Marshall cabinets
The Hiwatt seems louder than he SVT. From what Ive read, the SVT is more like 240w- 270w RMS, and the DR201 is closer to 250w RMS. So if thy both used the same speakers, they would probably be the same in volume. The JBLs are more efficient than the Altecs. I think the Altec 425a are around 97db, and 50w. The JBLs are 100w, and 100db. Both cabinets are good for 800w RMS. 800w if you use both 8 x 10 with the SVT.
Sometimes my buddy would use an 18in Celestion, and 2 JBL K140s. It was also very loud, and huge low end. In either case he never exceeded 5 on the Hiwatt.
To my ears though the Hiwatt sounds better, and louder. Neither guy lugs them around anymore though, and dont even play out anymore. Theyre in their 70s.
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"Just a quick side bar here. IMO, most of the magic of the SVT head, is it being coupled to the 8-10 Fridge which is where most of the “feel” comes from. Cabs are critical to one’s sound, but often overlooked."
.When I went through my SVT phase, I had a number of SVT2 Pros (kept returning them) and a Vintage SVT (which I sold), because they would lose definition before the volume I required. I also had a Mesa 400+ (2 different ones) and while they held together, the tone was not what I wanted. Now, I also had a GK 2000RB (2 of them) and they had plenty of slam- when they worked. (BTW, I understood that the 2000RB was 1000W when in bridge 4 ohms and 380 x 2 (8ohms). My Ashdown ABM 500 is loud and has a slam though not as loud as the GK.
My V-4 (100 w tube), breaks up too early for bass gigging. My Sunn 2000S (120 w tube) stays clean way longer.
Reeves C225 (225 w tube), hits hard and stays clean much longer than both. Both GK 800RB and 400RB can be pushed and sound beautiful at gigging levels.
Now to be fair, I did not have the 8-10 to go with the SVTs so that maybe would have made a diff.
.When I went through my SVT phase, I had a number of SVT2 Pros (kept returning them) and a Vintage SVT (which I sold), because they would lose definition before the volume I required. I also had a Mesa 400+ (2 different ones) and while they held together, the tone was not what I wanted. Now, I also had a GK 2000RB (2 of them) and they had plenty of slam- when they worked. (BTW, I understood that the 2000RB was 1000W when in bridge 4 ohms and 380 x 2 (8ohms). My Ashdown ABM 500 is loud and has a slam though not as loud as the GK.
My V-4 (100 w tube), breaks up too early for bass gigging. My Sunn 2000S (120 w tube) stays clean way longer.
Reeves C225 (225 w tube), hits hard and stays clean much longer than both. Both GK 800RB and 400RB can be pushed and sound beautiful at gigging levels.
Now to be fair, I did not have the 8-10 to go with the SVTs so that maybe would have made a diff.
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My experience is just the opposite. My ABM500 buries my V-4
I can't speak for class D, and I run nothing but tube Ampegs these days, but I can say that the volume I got out of my GK800RB through an 810 and a 412 folded horn could be just as brutal as anything my current SVT can accomplish.
