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Tube shootout with the Demeter VTBP-201
- Thread starter vicenzajay
- Start date
Still don't have Tung Sols, however, looking through my notes, I'm not finding a lot concerning a vintage "growl" tone. That's perhaps because I'm playing through Wizzy's - which have a vintage mid-thing going on as part of the cab's design.SnakeAnthony said:
Coming at it from the other direction, I would list the GE and JJ tubes as not being what you're looking for (GE being very smooth and detailed and the JJ being the low-end, kick-you-in-the-you-know-what king). Perhaps the Chinese 12AX7 would fit the bill the best (from the tubes I auditioned).
I will update this when I have a few more tubes to try.
Break, break:
Tom Bowlus - you mentioned that you were interested in the gig reports with the JJ long plate in V2. I've got to say that after 4 more shows, I'm very happy with this combination. The overall tone of the rig gets hotter and bit more "gritty" as the night wears on (and the tubes really warm up). I found that the 3rd and 4th sets for each night would require a slight adjustment of gain on the preamp and PA board. The tone itself was a perfect blend of Demeter sheen matched with a touch of "rock" tube break-up. I could really hear it with the in-ear monitors. I do, at some time, want to try the rig with a very clean V2 tube (maybe the GE again or perhaps the Tung Sol when I get it).
Gotta love the Dem 201 with the Jensen D.I. though....just what the doctor ordered for my purposes.
Jay
vicenzajay said:
Well, perhaps the stock may be fitting for what I want. Listening to Dave Schools using his 201 has always been awsome, with that 'growl' that I'm thinking of, but I hate the touch of steril tone his Modulus adds to it. I'll have to check one out with a bass more along my lines and see what I think.
Thanks for the time and thought though. And I will still look forward to your updates. Still and awsome shoot out. Peace, man.
Good point about the particular instrument, which should give quite a bit of it's tone to what we're hearingSnakeAnthony said:
Now that I think about it that way - the Power Jazz I was using on this had a LOT of vintage tone/growl...thus the reason I didn't have a tube that "stood out" in that way. My Dean Fretless also gets a very nice, "vintagey" growl with the Dr. Sunbeams....for some reason, the tone stays firmly in the "vintage" camp whether or not I'm using more bridge pickup and bass boost for rock or a more even tone balanced across the pickups for fretless mwah. The JB-2 can also do the vintage thing fairly well.
In contrast, the L2K is much more modern and "poke you between the eyes". Even when running passive with bass/treble cut quite a bit, it's basic tone is very cutting...great for a mix, but not vintage in any sense of the word.
Next shootout I'll have to go with a more modern sounding instrument (perhaps the Valenti that should arrive today) and see how the tubes stack up that way.
Jay
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Good question on the HBP-1. While I don't have one near here to pop the tube into, I'd certainly be willing to send you this tube to try it out. I'm definitely in a tube rolling "mood" lately, and I have plenty of other tubes to pop in there.
I'm really wanting to see what the Tung Sol might sound like in V2 with the Mullard right where it is.
Take care,
Jay
I'm really wanting to see what the Tung Sol might sound like in V2 with the Mullard right where it is.
Take care,
Jay
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
vicenzajay said:
Thank you for the offer! I should have a couple of those long plate JJ's floating around, so I'll try one in my HBP-1 when I get back from vacation (and have the time!).
Tom.
Excellent thoughts on these tubes. I do know now which tube will be my next purchase 
Thanks
Ricardo
Thanks
Ricardo
vicenzajay said:
I'd like to see some reviews of the Electro Harmonics tubes. I have a couple, my friend a gitardist has his whole Egnater full of them and loves them. I also have to chime in on the JJ teslas, those are my current fave after the Svetlanas for price/tone/consistency. And sure I 'd love to have some Siemens or Telefunkens, but until then Raytheon has to do. Much cheaper and similar tone to my ears.
Anybody use EI tubes? I just got some off of ebay, they are cheap, and look pretty rinky dink construction wise, will plug em into my Epiphone Valve Junior tonight.
Anybody use EI tubes? I just got some off of ebay, they are cheap, and look pretty rinky dink construction wise, will plug em into my Epiphone Valve Junior tonight.
I got two Tung Sol tubes in from Doug's Tubes today and spent some time doing some A/B work with the setup I have now and the Tung Sol's.
Don't have time to post all of it up tonight - but right now I've settled on a balanced Tung Sol in V1 and a JAN GE 12AX7A in the V2 slot. Of interest - I actually did some rolling in V2 and found that the position actually does have a very noticeable contribution to overall tone.
The Tung Sol is very balanced up and down the frequency spectrum....no "vintageness" to it all (at least in my Demeter). I found that, in comparison, the Mullard actually has a vintage bump in it's frequency response.
The Mullard still has the sweetest highs in V1, but if I used the Tung Sol together with the Mullard - WHOA nelly - TOO much high end response by far. At that point I started auditioning some very clean tubes in V2. More to follow on this later, but I decided on the GE as it really sweetened up the high frequency response yet let the Tung Sol do the incredibly clear thing it does down low.
Bottom line is that the Tung Sol offerings are pretty nice - especially if you like a modern, clean tone.
Not on topic, but related - I just have to say again just how much I love the Demeter 201....with all these combinations, this preamp just dishes out some sweet, sweet tone - quick yet liquid.
Take care,
Jay
Don't have time to post all of it up tonight - but right now I've settled on a balanced Tung Sol in V1 and a JAN GE 12AX7A in the V2 slot. Of interest - I actually did some rolling in V2 and found that the position actually does have a very noticeable contribution to overall tone.
The Tung Sol is very balanced up and down the frequency spectrum....no "vintageness" to it all (at least in my Demeter). I found that, in comparison, the Mullard actually has a vintage bump in it's frequency response.
The Mullard still has the sweetest highs in V1, but if I used the Tung Sol together with the Mullard - WHOA nelly - TOO much high end response by far. At that point I started auditioning some very clean tubes in V2. More to follow on this later, but I decided on the GE as it really sweetened up the high frequency response yet let the Tung Sol do the incredibly clear thing it does down low.
Bottom line is that the Tung Sol offerings are pretty nice - especially if you like a modern, clean tone.
Not on topic, but related - I just have to say again just how much I love the Demeter 201....with all these combinations, this preamp just dishes out some sweet, sweet tone - quick yet liquid.
Take care,
Jay
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
vicenzajay said:
That's sounds like a great combination! And it also sounds like I need to spend some more time rolling tubes in my 201 and 201s!
with all the differences, to be honest. Not that I had much of a background to draw from, but I wasn't sure that the Demeter was going to be this transparent as far as transmitting tube differences to the overall perceived tone. It was pretty eye-opening when I stuck both the Mullard and the Tung-sol in the preamp - the highs just overpowered the overall tone, and at that point I decided to audition some very "controlled" tubes in the V2 slot. Tried the JJ's/Chinese/Groove's (also Chinese)/GE tubes in that slot with the GE definitely "rounding off" the high end response in a very musical way.
At some point, I'll need to swap the auditioning process totally and put a very predictable tube in V1 and roll the whole lot through V2...I've got so much to learn here.
In any case, the next few shows will feature this combination, and I'll report back on how it goes. I was perfectly happy with the V1 Mullard/V2 JJ long plate solution; however, this new layout actually offers a clearer, more controllable low end. We'll see how that translates to live performance.
Another tube I need to try is the EH...wish I could try a vintage Telefunken, but don't have the funds for that right now!
Jay
At some point, I'll need to swap the auditioning process totally and put a very predictable tube in V1 and roll the whole lot through V2...I've got so much to learn here.
In any case, the next few shows will feature this combination, and I'll report back on how it goes. I was perfectly happy with the V1 Mullard/V2 JJ long plate solution; however, this new layout actually offers a clearer, more controllable low end. We'll see how that translates to live performance.
Another tube I need to try is the EH...wish I could try a vintage Telefunken, but don't have the funds for that right now!
Jay
Thanks for the review !!
I have to retube this baby :
and it was very usefull.
I want to hear more about your V1/V2 combinations....
For the power tubes, I think I'll go for JJ KT88.
I have to retube this baby :
and it was very usefull.
I want to hear more about your V1/V2 combinations....
For the power tubes, I think I'll go for JJ KT88.
What did you wind up going with for the Hiwatt amp - KT88's?
I've heard great things about this amp - never had a chance to try one, though.
Jay
I've heard great things about this amp - never had a chance to try one, though.
Jay
Jay, I do not have a Demeter pre-amp but I found your review a nice piece of work. I appreciate your efforts on our behalf. I still do build tube amplifiers but only for guitar players and no longer for bass. I have standardized on Sovtek tubes for my designs simply because I find them a good consistant brand at a reasonable price. If one of my clients wants a specific brand of tube then I will supply that brand.
Thanks for all your hard work
Paul
hey i was just reading this today... Hey jay... I just bought a Jan Philips 12ax7wa for the v1 spot and am going to leave the stock EH in the v2 spot. What do you think? oh yeah...its for my deme vbt 201s
CB
I love JAN Philips tubes...especially the lower gain (12AT7/5751) varieties....how does it sound? I'm thinking that combination is going to sound sweet. One suggestion - try swapping out the V2 and V1 here...put the EH in V1 and the Philips in V2. You might be surprised
Jay
Paul,
That post caught me at a bad time...I just wasn't patient enough! I wish now I had been a bit more gracious - guess I was tired after hours and hours of tube testing, and it seemed after all the "which tube should I use" questions we were getting that there really was very little interest.
Shame on me...4 pages later this thread is still revived over a year later.
Psycho Bass Guy (a super tube guru on the forums) has some great arguments as to why the Sovteks and others are super choices (and the choice of many touring artists). I think he would applaud your choice. With the amount of tubes I had lying around and a hi-fi preamp like the Demeter available, I felt it was worth it to see how the unit responded to different valves. In the long run it was a lot of fun - what was REALLY important was having my wife available to actually describe what she was hearing while not physically being able to see which tube I was putting into the preamp. Several times I just acted like I was switching tubes to place a bit of a control on the "shootout." Definitely not scientific, but probably better than me simply describing what I was hearing over each session (ear fatigue, my own pre-existing ideas, etc.).
Jay
I love JAN Philips tubes...especially the lower gain (12AT7/5751) varieties....how does it sound? I'm thinking that combination is going to sound sweet. One suggestion - try swapping out the V2 and V1 here...put the EH in V1 and the Philips in V2. You might be surprised
Jay
I haven't received it yet but what kind of surprise would i be in for?? What do you think might be better? I'll have to check it out when my tube gets here...I thought the v1 spot was the overall tone change.. I'm new to all this tube thing
Not a bad one, certainly - but I found even with the Traynor amp I recently owned that a V2 slot change definitely altered the tone stack and overall gain characteristics of the preamp section. Just a guess, but the EH in V1 and the Philips in V2 might just result in a very, very nice overall configuration for the Demeter. It's worth a try.
OBTW...in some ways it will mirror what I did. The EH tube has a good reputation for rf response and clarity...Philips tubes are rarely on the "high" side for gain. Thus that configuration might very well come close to mirroring what I settled on in my rig - the Tungsol in V1 and the JAN GE in V2. The GE tube (just guessing) probably has a bit in common (gain and tonewise) with the Philips 12AX7...
I might be wrong, but it's definitely not a "bad" combination of those tubes. Try it and see which way works out for you the best and then let us know what you think!
Take care,
Jay
OBTW...in some ways it will mirror what I did. The EH tube has a good reputation for rf response and clarity...Philips tubes are rarely on the "high" side for gain. Thus that configuration might very well come close to mirroring what I settled on in my rig - the Tungsol in V1 and the JAN GE in V2. The GE tube (just guessing) probably has a bit in common (gain and tonewise) with the Philips 12AX7...
I might be wrong, but it's definitely not a "bad" combination of those tubes. Try it and see which way works out for you the best and then let us know what you think!
Take care,
Jay
