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Tubey Goodness

4Mal said:
Before taking the plunge on a Mesa, you should really play through one. I did and it was an eye opener. One I'm not likely to repeat. I like my bass clean and punchy. The Buster was neither...
That Traynor 200 sounds better and better...

I've never even seen a Traynor, lte alone played one, but I disagree with that characterization of the Buster. I had the opportunity to play test extensively and possibly purchase a Buster! Bass head a couple of years ago. I think it is capable of great clean sounds, and the only reason I didn't purchase it is because, at the time, I couldn't justify the purchase of a *third* tube bass amp when I already had two V-Types. Of course, now that I only have one, I want a Buster to go with it...
 
Wow, what a great collection of info. My list is getting longer. Here in Charlotte I have not been able to find a decent source for many of the heads cited. I have been able to play an older mesa 400 at GC and have played a few ampeg heads in the past. I really need to give a traynor yba200 a try...
 
amper said:
I've never even seen a Traynor

Here you go!

120_2094.jpg
 
FaithNoMan said:
+1

..and the older Bass 400 uses 6 X 6550's, so it will have just as much juice as a newer 400+.

and of course, the D-180 has that cascading distortion feature..

Actually, the 400 came both ways (and the schematics are so noted) - either 6550 or 6L6/5881, so it is not a sure thing that an old 400 will be setup for 6550's . . . .

- Tim
 
I rather like the Pignose B100v I got form Tom. It's a 100 watt, 15" combo that weighs only 65 lbs. It sits perfectly in the mix of my R&B combo and is just the right size for the venues we play. I also have an '65 Ampeg B15n that I use wiht my rock band. It's not loud, but it sounds wonderful-- I mike it for more volume.
I love rich, tubey goodness!
 
justBrian said:
I rather like the Pignose B100v I got form Tom. It's a 100 watt, 15" combo that weighs only 65 lbs. It sits perfectly in the mix of my R&B combo and is just the right size for the venues we play.

I was really impressed by that Pignose. The only reason I sold it was that I had a Trace Elliot Twin Valve Combo, which rendered the Pignose redundant.

Tom.
 
Kronde said:
thanks for the commets...

Seamonkey...any recommendations on modern amps in the $500 range. I really just want to do some xperimentin with a tube power and pre...


If you're interested in preamps - stroll over to basstasters.com and listen to the samples there. You might get an idea for what tube preamps might work for you.

Go try some out. You can probably use your current rig as a power amp by using the effects return.

Later you can look for tube or SS power amp to compliment the preamp.

Though not a tube pre - MF has the Quest at $500!
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=482075
 
Psycho Bass Guy said:
That's a great suggestion. The Traynor YBA200 is right in line with his power and price range.



Yup. An electrolytic capacitor is generally 30-50% smaller and the more expensive ones can tolerate prolonged excessive heat. And that means absolutely nothing. ANY electronic device in its third decade of service is going to probably (but not definitely) need new caps. That goes for tubes, transistors, and the BS amps that don't exist yet that Seamonkey is so fond of.



Linear supply, class AB is the standard, is the most stable, and easiest to service. Not surprisingly, it also happens to work. And gee, one of the selling points of an old amp is that it IS an old design that isn't going to sound like a modern amp. Seamonkey would have you believe that an old design won't be as authentic as a "modelled" simulation of one. :rollno:

Let me highlight some of his more misleading statements and appropriately clarify what it is that he's actually saying:



So if you put new caps in an old amp it's going to sound like a new one of a completely different design? According to Seamonkey, that's the case. This notion is ridiculous and just an extension of his vehement anti-tube crusade. While he throws around impressive sounding words like "capacitor" and "transformer," you shouldn't take what he says at face value because he's speaking in very broad generalized terms that don't apply in MOST cases and he really knows next to nothing about electronics.



And this is a lie as presented, a complete and total lie. An amp needing repairs, whether it be tubes or capacitors or even a transformer is not "normal." An amp that needs those things is one that is malfunctioning. He's trying to scare you about things that are a normal part of maintenance for ANY kind of amp, tube, s/s analog, s/s digital... etc. To accurately paraphrase his mumbo-jumbo into real English: ' A broken amp may need new parts.' Doesn't sound so ominous now, does it?



And here he reveals exactly how limited his knowledge of electronics is. Higher capacitance power supplies (what he alludes to) do not stress a power transformer any more. In fact, they lessen the draw through the transformer and actually make it run cooler because they are supplying the additional current. The ONLY caveat to this is for really old amps that use tube rectifiers. With higher capacitance, the rectifier tube can be run into an overcurrent condition and burn out. None of the amps you mentioned use rectifier tubes, so you don't need to worry about it.



..or ignore the troll posting false and misleading information because he hates tubes.



Modern electrolytic caps are longer lived, but will eventually require replacement. The resistors made today will be just as good as the ones made 50 years ago, but they will be electrically less noisy. Modern transformers are no different from "vintage" ones.

As usual, your input is appreciated! :)
 
So I spent a little company time looking for used YBA200's on the net and couldn't find any. Evil bay had one completed auction for $510 or so. Evidently folks are not parting with them...I can usually find v4b's and yba-3's any time I look...

hmmm, kinda makes me wonder...

Does anyone have anything bad to say about the YBA200???
 
tombowlus said:
Quoted elsewhere:
And here he reveals exactly how limited his knowledge of electronics is. Higher capacitance power supplies (what he alludes to) do not stress a power transformer any more. In fact, they lessen the draw through the transformer and actually make it run cooler because they are supplying the additional current. The ONLY caveat to this is for really old amps that use tube rectifiers. With higher capacitance, the rectifier tube can be run into an overcurrent condition and burn out. None of the amps you mentioned use rectifier tubes, so you don't need to worry about it.
:)

Oh boy - Power supply 101. When you first turn on an amp, the caps aren't charged. To the power transformer and rectifiers upstream - they look like a large current sink while they're charging. You can't just take an old amp and put in a huge amount of capacitance and not expect it to not stress the upstream components. Look at the old amp schematics and you'll some had values like 20uf for the power caps. This may be adequate for the amp, but at the time 90hz cutoff for the cab may been part of the design. Take a look at newer amps of any kind - they'll have a lot more capacitance and take this into account for the rectifiers/transformer, and rest of the power supply design.

Sorry - didn't mean to hijack the thread and tried to stay in the spirit of the question.

I'd suggest sticking with new amps/heads (with warranties), unless you want a hobby or feel lucky. Whatever you get maintain your amp of any kind to get the max life and reliability out of it.

Good luck.
 
4Mal said:
Good luck finding a V4 in decent shape for $500. $650 to 700 is more like it for one that isn't in need of re-tube / recap.
Before taking the plunge on a Mesa, you should really play through one. I did and it was an eye opener. One I'm not likely to repeat. I like my bass clean and punchy. The Buster was neither...
That Traynor 200 sounds better and better...
I almost picked up a Trace V4 last weekend in working condition for $450. I just couldn't justify spending more on my rig though :hmm: . I find my 400+ fairly clean for a tube amp, definately a lot cleaner than the Traynor. Definately try both though, assuming that you can find a Mesa.
 
+1 on the Mesa D-180. I bought mine here for $550 with a complete retube. This amp sounds incredible. I like it more than the all tube V-type I used have and my Peavey 400. I almost bought another on ebay recently because the bidding was only just over $400. Just do yourself a favour and buy it. Plus, as somebody already mentioned, channel 1 cascades into channel 2. So, you can get some great distortion when you want it. Also, this amp is very, very loud. It is way louder than any ss amp I have heard up to 600 watts. I'm running mine with a Mesa 2x15 and I am in love with this amp. Also, all guitar players will give you the jealous eye when they find out you have a 20 year old all tube Mesa/Boogie head.


Mike
 
Psycho Bass Guy said:
Could somebody quote my post so that Seamonkey can see it? I'm tired of that fraud and his crap. He's evidently set me in his "ignore" list, and I want that fake to see EXACTLY where it is he stands.

PBG, I'm on the SM ignore list too! It seems anyone who takes issue with his anti-tube crusade too loudly gets added.

I also question the wisdom that caps aren't charged unless the amp is on? Doesn't that go against EVERYTHING you hear about how caps function in an amp? Also, a dangerous piece of misinformation for anyone who might stick their fingers in an amp?
 
Hey, I'm part of the proud group of people who has seamonkey on his own ignore list, as a vB admin elswhere I know it's impossible but if there was any way of banning him from threads containing the word "tube" or "valve" I'd strongly advocate it.

Oh and of course caps stay charged all the time unless they are specifically discharged, that's why rule number 1 of computers is don't open the power supply without insulated hand protection and a very good knowledge of what you're doing because there's still far more voltage and current present than is required to kill you.

Anyhow, on topic, I played a Mesa D-180 which seemed pretty nice but I didn't have long on it because I was just stopping by to see what was in stock. Of course next time it was sold. Dang it. I don't get a chance to get exposure to a great number of valve amps around here which is a shame but I already know that owning a Trace V-Type all valve is my destiny. Pity they're so rare and out of production. Those would be my recommendation to me but they're likely to be priced out of your reach, rarity usually means bidding wars ensue.
 
Gotta address this:

seamonkey said:
Oh boy - Power supply 101. (the bull$hit variety) When you first turn on an amp, the caps aren't charged. To the power transformer and rectifiers upstream - they look like a large current sink while they're charging.

No kidding, and you're STILL lying. I covered that when I addressed tube rectifiers.

You can't just take an old amp and put in a huge amount of capacitance and not expect it to not stress the upstream components. Look at the old amp schematics and you'll some had values like 20uf for the power caps.

Those are the ones with tube rectifiers. Most "vintage" bass amps use diodes for rectification that have absolutely NO probelm with charging up faster caps. You're twisting the facts.

I'm going to do some more highlighting;

This may be adequate for the amp, but at the time 90hz cutoff for the cab may been part of the design.

See that's guided speculation disguised as expertise, IOW, Brine Shrimpy is lying some more but trying to make it look authentic, so he's using big words and choosing them carefullly.

Take a look at newer amps of any kind - they'll have a lot more capacitance and take this into account for the rectifiers/transformer, and rest of the power supply design.

Show me on the a schematic (and they are ALL widely available for free) a 20 uF filter capacitance in a 100+ watt bass amp from the last 30 years. You are LYING. AND you still have yet to explain exactly HOW this is supposed to stress a power transformer any more.

Sorry - didn't mean to hijack the thread and tried to stay in the spirit of the question.

Bull. You saw a thread that adressed tubes and felt the need to further spread your lies, and to further derail it once the inevitable challenge to your lies occurred.

I'd suggest sticking with new amps/heads (with warranties), unless you want a hobby or feel lucky.

I'd suggest you become better informed and more honest before you offer further comment.

BTW, could someone quote this and add in Shrimp-boy's quotes for him since he's too much of a child to allow my posts to show up on his computer screen.
 
Clarification. I play through a GK 1001 RB II. I came to that from a Demeter 201 & Crown Ce1000. Those are clear, clean and punchy amps.

I'm also a big fan of the Fender tube amp sound, when it's clean. Maybe with 'just a touch' of grit on the very low end but still with the chimey high's that Fender's do so well.

In comparison, the Boogie Buster did not have the sweet highs of the Fender Showman though it is certainly much louder. It certainly didn't have anywhere near the kind of punch that I want in an amp. It was loud but grindy. It got grindy much earlier than I would be able to accept. Voicing wise I found it to be kind of 'woofy' with a large low mid's emphasis. I suspect that is what makes the amp seem loud.

It is definately a defined sound and if it's what someone is looking for, great, have at it. Not my cup of tea at all...

Further clarification. 'The Traynor sounds better and better all the time.' Might have been mis-leading. I was referring to the economics of a 200 watt tube amp with a seemingly flexible eq in the $600 range... Not the actual sound of the head. I've only heard one of these briefly and tha was through the Traynor cabinet. I wasn't impressed at the time but time was short so I didn't get to wring that head out. I'd like to though. Certainly the economics are reasonable enough.
 

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