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Typical wattage used at small bar gigs

#81
Pedro - Thanks dude. I love muddy bass tones - my current bass is very thick sounding and very reminiscent of the 70's tone.
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We seem to have a language barrier. :) To me 'muddy' means the notes are indistinguishable. The bass guitar of the 60-70's was definitely NOT muddy. In fact, I suggest that I have a lot more problems hearing the actual notes being played now days than I did back then. Not withstanding the extra power, big PA, etc. I'm guessing its due in large part to the scooped sound. On that we agree.
 
#82
What about cabinet projection? When I'm facing a speaker directly then just 100W is enough to hear it (even with a loud drummer). But move a meter or two and volume drops dramatically. This is inefficient but to fill a room there must be a surplus of volume.
 
#83
Fuzzbass said:
Jimmy, I don't think I'm part of that debate. I'm not sure how much headroom I need, but I have run out of headroom using 650 watts into an inefficient 4x10 cabinet while playing with a loud modern rock band (radio rock) at a fairly large bar where I did not receive PA support. Then there are the occasional outdoor gigs where I don't get PA support. So, I will say that I sometimes do need 1000 watts. But that's me. I would not recommend a 1000 watt rig to someone who did not need that much power. :)


Keep in mind that a 1000W amp is not ten times as loud as a 100W amp, it is only twice as loud... assuming the speakers can handle it.
Speaking of speakers, my standard recommendation is to match the amp to the speakers (and vice versa). I wouldn't recommend 1000W to someone who had a speaker cab rated for only 200W.
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Hi everyone. It's also the type of music you're playing. If you are the P-Bass middle of the mix guy one type of rig with say 2 to 300watts will do. If you are the whole low end of a group as I often am with Sax, two electric guitars and drums or mandolin two vocalists and two acoustic guitars no percussion I have to fill out so much that prodigious watts, 1000w help me give a full wide clear bottom with balanced mids and highs. Even using one 1x12 500 watts minimum for me in a listening coffee house setting. The second group I described requires the use of a lot of low whole notes. Simple uncluttered fullness is necessary because there's so much picking going on.
The OP may be starting out and or has a limited budget. That being said he can hear from those who used to use a 150w combo and now can afford or know they need the additional watts.
 
#84
I've been doing exactly this sort of gig (medium-sized clubs/varying FOH support) for decades, using the following rigs, with effectiveness as noted:

Yamaha B-100, 100W ss, 2x15 cab: never a problem onstage or in house, even when moving up to bigger rooms.

Peavey TNT 1x15 combo, 100W ss: dissatisfying onstage, fine in the medium house, or in bigger rooms with good FOH

Sunn 2000S, 120W tube, 2 2x15 cabs: fine in all circumstances, head very often switched out for the Yamaha described above, which was an marked improvement in punch/clarity/volume (very tubey odd head, that. I miss it.)

GK 400RB, 200W ss: fine with any med. room w/ any cabinet (NYC club gigs often have cab supplied, bring you own head); except with the Hartke 410 Transporter I once owned, which was a total sound compromise in all circumstances, but still adequate.

Ampeg B200R 1x15 combo, 220W hybrid: Fine in medium clubs, or bigger halls with good FOH. Satisfying onstage.
 
#85
Since most of my gigs are of the smaller type these days, and I went from an 8 piece show band to a 5 piece Blues band, I have been using around 300 watts at these gigs with my Roland DB700. Seems to be enough for this situation, although the usual factors of type of stage, room acoustics, etc. are always coming into play. I do not go through a pa unless it's outside, and , even then, I don't change my settings much at all, maybe a little more gas on the master. I also changed the stock 15 in the Roland to a JBL E140, which seems to project better. Just my two cents.
 
#86
A lot of good points in this thread. There are many unknown varables unless you play the same gigs with the same band all the time. With PA support 100 watts should do. I played most bars with a 200 watt 15" combo with PA support but it did have enough to stand alone most of the time(depending on drummer). My biggest problem was my on stage sound. For what ever reason I seemed to be cancled out on stage with the combo & PA. I recently upgradded my gear and went to a SVT 3pro and a 4X10 at the my last gig (same place I used the combo) with no PA and it went well. I turned down twice and heard myself fine. I will not use PA support at a bar again, I just like it better that way.
 
#87
Quick answer?
Carvin Pro Bass 300 into a Fender BXR410
or
Peavey Combo-115
Both turned up about 1/3rd of the way.

Long story?
I was asked to play with a hard rockin bikerbar band. I agreed and we practiced once a week in a small practice spot. About the size of a large 2 car garage.
Them-2 guitars with 1/2 stacks, PA set up and the drummer hit rather hard. I used a Peavey TKO80 set at about half volume. I kept getting asked if I had a REAL amp.:rollno:
Yep, I do. I just don't need it for practice.
Fast foward to the gig, they kept asking about my REAL amp, so I made sure I had plenty of firepower. The bar held about 50 people including staff.
I brought The Carvin, a Sunn Beta 2-15, an ADA2-10 and turned it up to 1/2 volume.:D:D. After about 5 minutes of "warming up", they asked me to turn it WAAAAAAy down.
I played the whole show with the volume at about 1/3. I wore earplugs for the whole show.
I just felt like I needed to make a point.
After that?
Carvin, Fender 4-10, volume at 1/3rd. :)

Ken R
 
#88
Ken R said:
Quick answer?
Carvin Pro Bass 300 into a Fender BXR410
or
Peavey Combo-115
Both turned up about 1/3rd of the way.

Long story?
I was asked to play with a hard rockin bikerbar band. I agreed and we practiced once a week in a small practice spot. About the size of a large 2 car garage.
Them-2 guitars with 1/2 stacks, PA set up and the drummer hit rather hard. I used a Peavey TKO80 set at about half volume. I kept getting asked if I had a REAL amp.:rollno:
Yep, I do. I just don't need it for practice.
Fast foward to the gig, they kept asking about my REAL amp, so I made sure I had plenty of firepower. The bar held about 50 people including staff.
I brought The Carvin, a Sunn Beta 2-15, an ADA2-10 and turned it up to 1/2 volume.:D:D. After about 5 minutes of "warming up", they asked me to turn it WAAAAAAy down.
I played the whole show with the volume at about 1/3. I wore earplugs for the whole show.
I just felt like I needed to make a point.
After that?
Carvin, Fender 4-10, volume at 1/3rd. :)

Ken R
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Good story.
 
#89
I play in a very loud alternative, noise-pop/dream-pop/shoegazer band.

First, I borrowed the drummer's brother-in-law's 45 W vintage 1x15 Ampeg Portaflex. Great sound, but not loud enough.

Then, I played for a long time with a Trace Elliot Series 6 AH130 head and two 115 cabs (Fender Bassman (not pro) and Pearce), then switched out the cabs for a Trace Elliot 2102 and 1153 setup. I never had a problem not being loud enough.

Then I switched to a Trace Elliot V-Type head, of 220 W tube persuasion. I generally use it with the gain at 11:00 and the volume at 12:00. Plenty loud. I also got a 1248H cab, but it's too heavy to easily move out of the house, so I rarely use it.

Then I switched to an SWR IOD and Power 750. Never needed to turn it up past 9:00 on the power amp. At the height of this period, I was hauling 90 lbs. of rack and 150 lbs. of cabs. The rack also contained a Trace Elliot V-Type preamp and a JoeMeek VC1Qcs channel strip, for compression and variety.

Now, I'm getting older, and I'm considering moving to a Mesa/Boogie Walkabout 12" scout (or two), or possibly the Powerhouse 1x12's with the Walkabout head. I'll take one for tiny gigs, and two if I really need it.

At recent rehearsals, I've been using the V-Type with just the 2102, and it's not quite loud enough, but it's fine for rehearsal. That's just a function of not having the second cab because I'm too lazy to haul it. For tomorrow's gig, I'm thinking the V-Type head with the 1248H cab, 'cause I'm going to have help moving it, and it's such a kick-ass cab.
 
#91
JimmyM said:
Ken, I will defend anyone's right to carry as powerful a rig as they want, but let's ditch all the horsepucky about needing 1000w of headroom because it makes it sound better when your volume knob is on 1, and let's get honest here...

1. How many of you with rigs 1000w and over regularly (or even semi-regularly) use all of your available RMS wattage?

2. If you do, what kind of music do you play and in what venues?

3. If you answered #2 with "doom metal in small bars," then will you promise never to invite me to your gigs? ;)

4. Even if you have a legit reason for wanting 1000w or more, do you recommend it to a guy doing entry-level small bar gigs as a minimum?

5. If someone put a gun to your head and asked you to state the real reason you carry a monster rig like that, how many of you would answer, "I like to tell people I have a 1000w rig"?

:hiding:
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I promise :D
I use a 200W Peavey Roadmaster tube and a 120W Earth tube into way too many cabs.
 
#92
Interesting to read the number of players who are happy with low (B-15) to moderate power. My WTX260 into a 4-ohm Eden 210XST or dual 112XLTs has been more than enough for our indoor gigs, and at the last outdoor soundcheck was causing the guitar amp mics to clip the board. It's too loud at rehearsal into an 8ohm Goliath II 410.

In the 70s and 80s we packed ballroom dance floors all over Chicagoland 90 nights a year - with a B15N, a Fender Twin, a Rhodes, and vocals-only PA. Audiences stayed all night and still passed the hat to keep us playing - because we entertained without abusing them.
 
#93
Low to moderate power is about all anyone will let me muster up these days. I sit and look at this 69 SVT I just restored for almost $1500 and it makes me sad that nobody will let me realize its full potential on a gig. Then again, I can sell it for WAAAAAAAAY more than that ;)

OTOH, I don't like to hear my bass at insane levels, either. I like to hear the music as a band, not just me.
 
#94
jmcgliss said:
Interesting to read the number of players who are happy with low (B-15) to moderate power. My WTX260 into a 4-ohm Eden 210XST or dual 112XLTs has been more than enough for our indoor gigs, and at the last outdoor soundcheck was causing the guitar amp mics to clip the board. It's too loud at rehearsal into an 8ohm Goliath II 410.

In the 70s and 80s we packed ballroom dance floors all over Chicagoland 90 nights a year - with a B15N, a Fender Twin, a Rhodes, and vocals-only PA. Audiences stayed all night and still passed the hat to keep us playing - because we entertained without abusing them.
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I've said it before but people at obsessed with watts these days. Some folks can't do a bar gig w/ 25 drunks in it with less than 500 watts and McCartney does the rooftop gig w/ a 50 watt Bassman.
 
#95
I may be looking for my first serious stack.

This is what I was wondering: do you guys think that the SVT 3-Pro (450 watts solid state) through the SVT 410HLF would be enough and then some for bars and smaller outdoor shows? Enough to really grow with, with tons of headroom? Or should I splurge a bit more for the SVT 2-Pro (300 tube watts)?
 
#96
pedro said:
I've said it before but people at obsessed with watts these days. Some folks can't do a bar gig w/ 25 drunks in it with less than 500 watts and McCartney does the rooftop gig w/ a 50 watt Bassman.
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If you honestly want to never run out of headroom then you need that many watts. Do not underestimate the huge dynamic range of uncompressed bass guitar.

Alex
 
#97
Geddy Claypool said:
I may be looking for my first serious stack.

This is what I was wondering: do you guys think that the SVT 3-Pro (450 watts solid state) through the SVT 410HLF would be enough and then some for bars and smaller outdoor shows? Enough to really grow with, with tons of headroom? Or should I splurge a bit more for the SVT 2-Pro (300 tube watts)?
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IMHO & E, yeah, fine and then some.

And if you want greater headroom, go for the higher wattage. If you want still more headroom/wattage, buy a GK1001RB: 700W@4ohm.
 
#98
alexclaber said:
If you honestly want to never run out of headroom then you need that many watts. Do not underestimate the huge dynamic range of uncompressed bass guitar.

Alex
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I'm just pointing out that many of us, as well as many far more talented, were able to play thousands of bar/club gigs for years with much less watts. It may have as much to do with our perception of how bass should sound, or where its supposed to be in the mix, or the slap bass eq's but it can and was done very well with much less.

Here's Arthur Conley's band in 1967 admirably proving my point.

 

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