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- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
It took me forever to realize that most folks who say they want MBOL, don't really mean that. I include myself here 
I want the most useful sound within the context of the group and the room I'm in. My most exciting purchase in the last 6 months or so has been the Grace Design FELIX pre. I paid full price for it, so no dodgey endorsement or sly marketing of my own stuff here!
I've been playing around with some different DIY cabs for a year now. I don't sell them at present and don't know if I ever will...my little fun rabbit hole project has been to try to make my favorite doubling cab for what I want to hear. I've never believed in a 'best' for everyone/everything cab. That's just marketing nonsense, to me. Lately there's been too many fun gigs to focus on and I'm pretty happy with my gear. I do love knowing so many talented designers are out there working on our behalf. It's amazing to me how far we've come!
I want the most useful sound within the context of the group and the room I'm in. My most exciting purchase in the last 6 months or so has been the Grace Design FELIX pre. I paid full price for it, so no dodgey endorsement or sly marketing of my own stuff here!I've been playing around with some different DIY cabs for a year now. I don't sell them at present and don't know if I ever will...my little fun rabbit hole project has been to try to make my favorite doubling cab for what I want to hear. I've never believed in a 'best' for everyone/everything cab. That's just marketing nonsense, to me. Lately there's been too many fun gigs to focus on and I'm pretty happy with my gear. I do love knowing so many talented designers are out there working on our behalf. It's amazing to me how far we've come!
I still think the holy grail is MBOL. I mean that.☺ It's basically not achievable, especially considering different environments. So, yes, we shoot for a usable, acceptable, functional sound. Personally, I try to tailor that as much as practical toward MBOL, knowing full well that I'll always be miles away from it.
+1 Absolutely true, and what's significant about that is, without a great attack and release, you're going to be constantly fighting an uphill battle to keep up.
I just laughed at this until my side hurts. When everyone else was going full metal "Polytone" or "Gallien Krueger" there were a handful of other players getting a much more refined sound from the Walter Woods or various Pre/Power amp combinations. They were more expensive but they really sounded better across the small group of the pickups avaliable at the time, which included the Underwood, Schertler, and Fishman BP-100.Maybe it's just me, but I play better and enjoy playing more when I can get the bass to function at its highest level and get a sound that may not be "my bass but louder". I'm shooting for "my bass but better".[/QUOTE]
+1 Why anyone would want to get a lesser sound from their backline system than they do from their instrument is kind of puzzling to me. This can unfortunately be a rather daunting and a potentially expensive proposition, especially when your instrument, which is the most important part of your "signal chain", costs more than $10,000.00. So, many student players don't have the resources to by a $2,000.00 rig on top of the price that their instuments cost, while touring pro's rarerly carry anyhing but their bass, if that. When I consider this, I realise how fourtnate we are, to be having this discussion. Just my take.
Ric
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Which is why the electric bass was invented and quickly developed into a valid alternative to DB for live performance. Recently there was a thread on the BG side about the inevitability of the development of the BG. I posted that if DB amplification had advanced much more quickly that maybe the BG would not have been invented and maybe all the rock acts of the '60s and '70s would have had a DB player. Picture Entwistle on a DB! The Disco Era on DB!!
An interesting thought but, after all, the BG is not simply an amplified substitute for the DB. That is, it's a related but different instrument, requiring a different technique and approach. I think it's a good thing that we have both instruments and I admire anyone who can play both well and, thereby, do justice to each.
Well. MBOL..let us see. A definitive MBOL solution. Hmmm. That's like saying the cure for every kind of cancer or neurological ailment will be a universal one. Or even for the common cold. That will never be true, there is no one treatment, never has been , never will be, there is no Panacea in the medical model of treatment for illness. Each case of illness is unique. Each scenario of MBOL is unique. Both share basic symptoms of a perfect working system in varying states of failure. No one drug treatment or therapy will cure any kind of the multiple varieties of cancer or other illness. In the case of our instrument, it isn't any different. I dare to say that MBOL will never involve electronics. Electronics put the source of sound further from it's source, further from it's ability to regenerate beautiful pure tone out of the dissonance of strings tuned to a pre concieved system of pitch. Period. That isn't saying that some wonderful sounds are not being achieved..but in the end there it boils down and back to the thrill of the chase. Or in medical tech, further research. The solution for the MBOL syndrome will most likely be cultural and environmental in nature. There will always be a set of variables that differ from situation to situation. That means that we will need perfect listening environments with attentive listeners. And in the next room, in front of the next audience..well. Until then. OTOH, believing that there is an ultimate cure for the problem where the bucks will stop can only help relieve the suffering of the moment when your rig ain't cutting it. It's just about $$$ in the meantime. A guy around here has sold quite a few little magic boxes for DB (and also EB) at roughly a 100 bucks a pop. Maybe more than a couple of thousand overall, over the years. Good units, useful in their way. Many of those are hardly used when a better solution to the "problem" is discovered, put away as a dependable quality backup. Do the math, LOL! I say call it what it is, be honest, it is the thrill of the chase that drives these discussions.
OTOH, believing that there is an ultimate cure for the problem where the bucks will stop can only help relieve the suffering of the moment when your rig ain't cutting it. It's just about $$$ in the meantime. A guy around here has sold quite a few little magic boxes for DB (and also EB) at roughly a 100 bucks a pop. Maybe more than a couple of thousand overall, over the years. Good units, useful in their way. Many of those are hardly used when a better solution to the "problem" is discovered, put away as a dependable quality backup. Do the math, LOL! I say call it what it is, be honest, it is the thrill of the chase that drives these discussions.
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+1
Electric Bass and Double Bass are two entirely unique branches of the bass instrument tree. They are only "interchangeable" between certain styles of music. Brazilian, Latin and Folk music sound equally well on either instrument. Swing, Classical, and Orchestral music are more suited to the Double Bass. Rock, Pop and Fusion are the pervue of the Electric IMHO. While there are many exceptions, like Jim Creegan of the Barenaked Ladies, Viktor Krauss wth Lyle Lovett and Jaco Pastorious, the EB and DB IME have their own unique voices in different musical styles. Just my take.
Ric
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Nope, to the extent we can inch closer to the elusive goal, it will absolutely involve electronics. It must, virtually by definition, because we're talking about amplification. It will, however, not only involve electronics for reasons that you state. It will involve acoustics as well.
I find some of the objections to the notion of MBOL to be trivial, over-simplistic, and pedantic. I don't think anyone here actually thinks that an amplified sound could ever be achieved such that it's indistinguishable from the tonal balance and radiation pattern of the instrument itself. To dismiss the concept on such grounds is to misunderstand what MBOL is about. It is akin to saying that because something can never be perfect, then the pursuit of betterment is futile. Nonsense!
In practical terms, in the real world, I think when a player says that he/she is trying to achieve MBOL, that player means that he/she is trying to assemble a combination of transducers and electronics such that the acoustic output will bear a reasonably close or very close resemblance to the temporal and spectral characteristics of the instrument played acoustically. Virtually everyone here knows that some rigs do that much better than others. That doesn't mean that the same assemblage of components will work for every bass. In fact, they won't. So, no, it isn't only the thrill of the hunt. Real progress has been made and will be made.
Now, as others have rightly noted here, many times, MBOL is not what's necessarily desired. Sometimes the requirements of the performance are such that what works best is a sound with intentional exaggeration or intentional attenuation of specific aspects of the sound of the instrument. That is, in such cases, MBOL may not be the desired goal.
When MBOL is the goal, it is a meaningful concept. I think it should not be dismissed on the basis of the obvious fact that perfection cannot be achieved.
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Does anyone have experience with the Crazy 8's? I have a Berg CN112 that I love but would like something smaller and easier to carry up stairs to rehearsal, jams, etc. I am fine with the Berg for gigs but it is kind of bulky to carry just for rehearsal of a Bluegrass three piece.
Stay tuned. Other than Rick Jones with the AI downfiring speaker there has probably been less attention paid to this, but that is part of what I will be Beta testing soon.
Not true. That's one of the prime points with the MAS speakers. The radiation feels much more like the acoustic instrument.
Sorry Mike,
I thought that might have been the case and should have checked with you first. Thanks for correcting me.
No-- no rig will ever achieve the tonal balance and radiation pattern such that the difference is indistinguishable from that of the instrument. The MAS has an interesting and apparently desirable radiation pattern for a speaker system. I don't believe it is close to that of a DB, nor do I think it would be practical or desirable for a cab to have a radiation pattern like a DB. It would likely render it not suitably versatile.
It took me forever to realize that most folks who say they want MBOL, don't really mean that. I include myself here
I've been playing around with some different DIY cabs for a year now. I don't sell them at present and don't know if I ever will...my little fun rabbit hole project has been to try to make my favorite doubling cab for what I want to hear. I've never believed in a 'best' for everyone/everything cab. That's just marketing nonsense, to me. Lately there's been too many fun gigs to focus on and I'm pretty happy with my gear. I do love knowing so many talented designers are out there working on our behalf. It's amazing to me how far we've come!
Great post. And thank-you for not doing a soft shoe sell job for your cabs here. I've heard good things, but more and more i don't trust small builders who use this forum with a small group of fans and friends to hawk their product. In the next year, I predict that companies like Aguilar and Mesa are going to be providing great cabs for DB of excellent quality, both sonically and of domestic build. Much easier to get your hands on than waiting for a custom order, and worrying your cab purchase isn't merely financing research and development for the builder.
Well I would expect that funds from my purchases were indeed put toward R&D for advancement, and appreciate those that are passionate enough to push forward....and I believe that Mesa and Aguilar (among many others) built up just that way from humble, custom-build beginnings.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I guess you never know! I've had some pretty nice endorsement deals with some of the bigger MI companies over the years and would often mention my desire to see better designs for upright players. Typically, they all seemed to feel the market was just too niche to bother with. That was when I started to turn my attention to the cutting edge boutique designers and it turned out there's a small handful of truly great ones. It'll be interesting to see if one of the big boys starts taking us upright lovers seriously enough to put out some cool designs.
