Update to the G2220 saga

[ClusterFlux]

I agree with your points. Mistakes happen, but it's how those mistakes are recognized and handled that matters. Fender/Gretsch have handled this very poorly.

Why, because they didn't do a recall on the basses, and offer to come to your home to swap out the pickups, and give you a manicure while you wait?

I see no evidence that Fender acted substantially differently than any other company that makes this type of mistake. Every company has aggrieved customers... even, dare I say it?!? Thomann and Harley Benton.

As to the claims of "poor treatment," you've got one guy haranguing the repair department in the earliest months of the pandemic; and... an email from Gretsch acknowledging the error and offering affected customers some swag. They didn't deny it, they didn't attack you, they just said "sorry, we'll fix it."

I'd add that you're going to continue to accuse them of fraud, no matter what remedies they offered. So, I'm going to take your evaluation of their response with a gigantic grain of salt, kthx.

Folks saying that we're supposed to expect stuff like this for the price are flat out wrong. This is why consumer protection laws exist....

There is abundant evidence of a manufacturing mistake. There is zero evidence of fraud. None, nada, bupkis.

The difference in the cost of the parts is negligible.
They aren't doing this on dozens of models.
You don't have emails sent by Fender execs proving this was a deliberate choice.
You don't have a video of Fred Gretsch laughing maniacally by getting an extra $5 on every G2220 sold.
This kind of thing happens all the time.

You just went straight to assuming bad intentions. See above re: Grain of salt.

By the way, I work in technology. Companies ship constantly ship products and software that are riddled with bugs, can go unfixed for years, and can't be fixed by customers. (In some cases, those companies actively fight against the right to repair broken products.) Some software companies know about major security flaws for months (or years) and don't do anything about them. Thus, while the product certainly should match the spec sheet, all the hyperbole and hysterics over this strikes me as almost amusingly absurd. (I'm guessing that that one reason why this conversation got so heated is because the stakes are so low.)

I can't think of another bass that was produced for so long and misrepresented in such a way.

I also can't think of another instrument where almost no one cared about the pickup type for so long. Can you?

It's important for us as consumers to be vocal about issues like this because that's the only way change will happen.

I'm not criticizing being vocal. I didn't say "suck it up." I never said that "no one should point out the problem."

Rather, previously I pointed out that no reasonable person should have outlandish expectations of the quality of cheap instruments; that every company makes mistakes; and that brand is irrelevant to that calculation.

Further, in this post, I'm pointing out that if you're going to accuse someone of actual fraud, you need a little more than an apparent manufacturing mistake in one model out of literally hundreds of instruments.

 

[gln1955]

I agree with your points. Mistakes happen, but it's how those mistakes are recognized and handled that matters. Fender/Gretsch have handled this very poorly. Folks saying that we're supposed to expect stuff like this for the price are flat out wrong. This is why consumer protection laws exist, and folks victim blaming those duped by a trusted brand should get out of the "well I don't think it's a big deal so it shouldn't be a big deal to anyone" mindset and learn some empathy. I can't think of another bass that was produced for so long and misrepresented in such a way. It's important for us as consumers to be vocal about issues like this because that's the only way change will happen.

I find it bizarre that people on here are going to such lengths to defend any aspect of FMIC's behavior in this. It's long series of fail:

Making the mistake on the supply-side/manufacturing end
Not recognizing the mistake for 10 years due to zero QC effort
Ignoring customer reports of a problem
Half-assed response to make the PR problem go away when it can no longer be ignored

Are the defenders here wanting to see more of this? It makes no sense.

 

[ClusterFlux]

Yes, I expect excellence in all things. Do you not?

Of course I don't! That would be absurd. I don't expect the 99¢ pizza place to offer the same level service as Per Se.

You think that Gretsch is a low quality "gas-station coffee" of guitar brands?

I think that a $300 mass-produced made-in-China bass is a $300 mass-produced made-in-China bass, no matter what name is on the headstock.

Cheaper instruments clearly do exist, but IMO $300 for a new instrument is way under the price point where I'd expect to hit diminishing returns.

I also know that when we're below the diminishing returns point, price and quality of a good will be reasonably well correlated. Expecting otherwise doesn't make much sense.

 

[steimlem]

Why, because they didn't do a recall on the basses, and offer to come to your home to swap out the pickups, and give you a manicure while you wait?

I see no evidence that Fender acted substantially differently than any other company that makes this type of mistake. Every company has aggrieved customers... even, dare I say it?!? Thomann and Harley Benton.

As to the claims of "poor treatment," you've got one guy haranguing the repair department in the earliest months of the pandemic; and... an email from Gretsch acknowledging the error and offering affected customers some swag. They didn't deny it, they didn't attack you, they just said "sorry, we'll fix it."

I'd add that you're going to continue to accuse them of fraud, no matter what remedies they offered. So, I'm going to take your evaluation of their response with a gigantic grain of salt, kthx.



There is abundant evidence of a manufacturing mistake. There is zero evidence of fraud. None, nada, bupkis.

The difference in the cost of the parts is negligible.
They aren't doing this on dozens of models.
You don't have emails sent by Fender execs proving this was a deliberate choice.
You don't have a video of Fred Gretsch laughing maniacally by getting an extra $5 on every G2220 sold.
This kind of thing happens all the time.

You just went straight to assuming bad intentions. See above re: Grain of salt.

By the way, I work in technology. Companies ship constantly ship products and software that are riddled with bugs, can go unfixed for years, and can't be fixed by customers. (In some cases, those companies actively fight against the right to repair broken products.) Some software companies know about major security flaws for months (or years) and don't do anything about them. Thus, while the product certainly should match the spec sheet, all the hyperbole and hysterics over this strikes me as almost amusingly absurd. (I'm guessing that that one reason why this conversation got so heated is because the stakes are so low.)



I also can't think of another instrument where almost no one cared about the pickup type for so long. Can you?



I'm not criticizing being vocal. I didn't say "suck it up." I never said that "no one should point out the problem."

Rather, previously I pointed out that no reasonable person should have outlandish expectations of the quality of cheap instruments; that every company makes mistakes; and that brand is irrelevant to that calculation.

Further, in this post, I'm pointing out that if you're going to accuse someone of actual fraud, you need a little more than an apparent manufacturing mistake in one model out of literally hundreds of instruments.

I think at this point it's clear you haven't taken the time to read all the information in these threads, but continue to spend your time typing paragraphs and paragraphs of why you're right. There's plenty evidence of Fraud. When were people crying for a recall? People just didn't want to be lied to, and wanted their not as advertised item that they paid for to be rectified. "one guy haranguing the repair department in the earliest months of the pandemic" that's really how you're going to phrase that? you mean Asher contacting Fender multiple times with screenshot/email evidence of them straight up lying to him and changing their story or ignoring him when all he wanted was to kindly point out their mistake so it could get fixed? And completely ignoring all the other people that brought this to their attention but the description was never changed or acknowledged. Gretsch/Fender only "made things right" after LEL and others made videos and threads like these calling them out after 10 years publicly.

 

[Asher Platts]

Of course I don't! That would be absurd. I don't expect the 99¢ pizza place to offer the same level service as Per Se.



I think that a $300 mass-produced made-in-China bass is a $300 mass-produced made-in-China bass, no matter what name is on the headstock.

Cheaper instruments clearly do exist, but IMO $300 for a new instrument is way under the price point where I'd expect to hit diminishing returns.

I also know that when we're below the diminishing returns point, price and quality of a good will be reasonably well correlated. Expecting otherwise doesn't make much sense.

Well if you like being cheated, swindled, treated poorly, that's fine for you, but don't tell the rest of us to expect anything less than excellence. What a weird hill to die on.

 

[ClusterFlux]

I think at this point it's clear you haven't taken the time to read all the information in these threads...

Actually, I have. I posted in the earlier thread, too. That's how I know that while this is a genuine issue -- something I've never denied -- that ultimately, it's just a tempest in a teapot.

 

[Pilgrim]

So has this thread officially become a Fender-bashing thread?

The original question has been asked, answered, and resolved.

 

[steimlem]

So has this thread officially become a Fender-bashing thread?

The original question has been asked, answered, and resolved.

Debatable. The first issue was that these produced hum and it was discovered that the bass had 2 bridge pickups. As far as anyone is aware these basses are still being incorrectly produced with 2 bridge pickups. Would be nice to see if they continue to follow up and ultimately fix this. Also would be nice to see if people actually get their "swag" shipped and received.

 

[BadSanta1281]

It's odd that they didn't just quietly change the advertised specs a long time ago.

I'm hoping for big discounts on the remaining stock so I have an excuse to buy one.

 

[Tom Kinter]

As a big PC hardware enthusiast, I hate these artificial lifespans applied to products to force consumers into buying more stuff and it really sucks to see that attitude in the bass space. Just like my old Line 6 Variax 700 bass. Neat concept, but of course support is dropped as soon as the product isn't in the spotlight. No firmware updates or any of the road mapped integrations. Musicians want longevity in their gear!

I think about this every day as i wrestle with the win10 PC to do things (searches, graphics, painting, music) that work better on my still-operating 1999 XP machine right next to it.

 

[Glazenn]

I think about this every day as i wrestle with the win10 PC to do things (searches, graphics, painting, music) that work better on my still-operating 1999 XP machine right next to it.

Thinking: wasn’t something like MS Picture Manager that was extremely handy and that Microsoft erased from my PC without even asking?

 

[LowEndLobster]

Thinking: wasn’t something like MS Picture Manager that was extremely handy and that Microsoft erased from my PC without even asking?

Microsoft now: tHeRe'S aN aPp FoR tHaT!!111

 

[srayb]

26398933[/URL], member: 324964"]
You expect "excellence" when you buy a $300 instrument made in China? Really...?

There are many North American companies that use factories in China, and actually have decent quality (defined as the parts work and are built to spec). It is incumbent on the parent company to ensure the quality of their “made in China” products are decent or else their brand will suffer. Also FWIW, I own a G2220, and the first time I plugged it in, I noticed considerable hum. I was ready to return it, but after changing strings and playing for a few hours, I really loved everything else about it. I adjusted my amp EQ and was able to tame the hum to an acceptable level FOR ME. I just thought, wow these must be what cheap humbuckers sound like. But the tone of the pickups are good and the balance of the bass and quality of the neck & frets are very good also (comparable to a bass at least 2x the price).

I agree this issue is not worthy of a torch-wielding mob from a Frankenstein movie, but it also should not be “acceptable” business practice to just say advertised specs are not accurate so just suck it up (unless expressly noted as such, like “your mileage may vary” or “your humbuckingness may vary”).

It becomes a slippery slope; this issue is not life-threatening, but there should be a standard that applies to the full gamut of published specifications for selling goods whether it is bass pickups or brake pads or pacemakers.

I see this topic as more about business ethics, if that term even exists anymore. At least finally after much publicity Fender/Gretsch has done the minimum acceptable response of updating their specs for the current model, and are offering a small compensation for owners (all of which actually benefit them still in the form of advertising).

 

[LowEndLobster]

I'm glad to see the bass specs have been updated at many vendor sites including Thomann (yes it's back), and Sweetwater. I don't think there will be any other updates here unless Fender/Gretsch decide to make any sort of statement acknowledging the blunder and the solution. I'll be making a short video summarizing the updates so as many people as possible can be aware of the $100 gift credit and the steps to claim this. Thanks to everyone who helped with the information gathering, testing, and questioning that helped this happen. Regardless of how one may feel about this particular issue, we helped spread awareness which resulted in the company taking action. Thanks all!

 

[LBS-bass]

It's odd that they didn't just quietly change the advertised specs a long time ago.

I'm hoping for big discounts on the remaining stock so I have an excuse to buy one.

It is odd, but we have no way of knowing if anyone at Fender escalated the issue beyond the mid-level CS types that the OP was corresponding with. I doubt we'll ever know. It's clear that the OP got the runaround from people in the CS department, but why that happened is a big mystery. 'Above my pay grade' is a phrase that comes to mind when people in middle management find problems but decide not to rock the boat

 

[BlueTalon]

I'm saying that every company makes mistakes; and that the cheaper the item, the more likely you are to buy something that has mistake.

Granted. Mistakes happen. But how does the company address the issue when mistakes are made? That is the issue here.

 

[g-dude]

Granted. Mistakes happen. But how does the company address the issue when mistakes are made? That is the issue here.

Pretty sure they address it…

 

[Wood and Wire]

I've finally decided what bass I'm going to get to replace the G2220.

The Harley Benton HB-60 WB. It's got a very similar fat bottom, crunchy top tone to the G2220.

It's also way nicer (semi hollow, set neck, beautiful binding and inlay work, set neck, blendable pickup volumes plus a 3way toggle switch), and even with international shipping from Germany, is still less brand new than the price of a G2220 used (I just paid $260) And it already has humbuckers so I don't have to get those installed on my own dime afterwards.

My brother has one of their LP guitars with a set neck and push-pull tone pots that he bought for $150, and I built one of their diy kits for my partner and she loves it, I'm really impressed with the quality of the electronics and hardware that matters (pickups, pots, bridge).

I'll come back with a review when it arrives.

And the pickups are actually humbuckers!

Yeah, I've been tempted by this for a while, because I'm too cheap to pony up for a Gretsch Country Gentleman, and every time I don't buy one because I think the collectors prices have gone crazy, it's 7 years before another one shows up, and the price has increased by another £1500.

Unfortunately these don't have the bar-fight spike, or the boat oar headstock, but what can you do?

I may be wrong, but to me it appears that Eastwood have taken the exact same instrument, and stuck their brand name on it, then more than tripled the price.

I think it's going to be a toss up between this, the Hofner Very Thin, and the Epiphone Jack Casady...

 

[N4860]

Yeah, I've been tempted by this for a while, because I'm too cheap to pony up for a Gretsch Country Gentleman, and every time I don't buy one because I think the collectors prices have gone crazy, it's 7 years before another one shows up, and the price has increased by another £1500.

Unfortunately these don't have the bar-fight spike, or the boat oar headstock, but what can you do?

I may be wrong, but to me it appears that Eastwood have taken the exact same instrument, and stuck their brand name on it, then more than tripled the price.

I think it's going to be a toss up between this, the Hofner Very Thin, and the Epiphone Jack Casady...

I was looking at getting the epi Jack Casady at one point but then found a great deal on an epi Allan Woody which I would recommend checking out if you find the opportunity.

 

[Asher Platts]

I think it's going to be a toss up between this, the Hofner Very Thin, and the Epiphone Jack Casady...

I would say do it... but I don't actually have mine yet, so I'll let you know if it's a waste of money or not.

It's also important to remember that just because you pay lots of money for something doesn't make it any better (that's just fetishism!).

In fact, "sometimes things that are expensive ... are worse."


Like I mentioned, my brother (in Czechia) bought one of the Harley Benton LP style guitars from Thomann, and it came with AlnicoV humbuckers, set neck, beautiful binding and inlay work, pull-push tone pots for coil splitting, and was in tune and set up perfectly out of the box. And it sounds amazing. And it was like $150 US. It must be that German engineering... lol.