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Updated 2x10 Shootout!
- Thread starter tombowlus
- Start date
hehe,
good stuff, T!
love my NL210 cab, and think it'll be a real hit for the EA boyz.
if you're a mass transit guy, or play small stages, THIS IS THE CAB TO GET.
good stuff, T!
love my NL210 cab, and think it'll be a real hit for the EA boyz.
if you're a mass transit guy, or play small stages, THIS IS THE CAB TO GET.
Multiple +'s Tom, This was great, I just started my viewing a little too late. 
Your imput is always a + with me.
I know you once did a post on tubes, but can't find it. If you don't mind me asking you in this thread, did you find Telefunkens to be a plus in pre amps. The reason I'm asking is because tubes in a Millennia STT-1 in a studio I record in were replaced with Telefunkens. And I was considering using them in my Alembic F1-X.
Your imput is always a + with me.
I know you once did a post on tubes, but can't find it. If you don't mind me asking you in this thread, did you find Telefunkens to be a plus in pre amps. The reason I'm asking is because tubes in a Millennia STT-1 in a studio I record in were replaced with Telefunkens. And I was considering using them in my Alembic F1-X.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,948
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
MacGroove said:
Here's the thread.
MacGroove said:
Don't mind at all! Yes, I do find that NOS Telefunkens (both smooth and ribbed plate) nearly always make for a noticable sonic improvement. Other NOS tubes that seem quite promising include the JAN Philips 12AX7WA, JAN GE 12AX7WA, Mullard CV4004, GE Black Plate 5-Star 5751, and JAN Philips 12AT7WC black plates.
Tom.
Had to merge all of this stuff. I was tired of going back to page one to read/compare.
Edit: Thanks Tombowlus, you rock!
EA VL-210 (A) This cab was one of a few that could take all that one side of the CA9 could dish out (with the line driver cranked up all the way). In fact, this cab had no signs of breakup at all, even at the highest volumes I could push. The overall tone is slightly dark, with a deep tight low end although the lows to low mids were not as full, overall, as some of the other cabs. Good clarity on the whole, with fairly smooth highs. Midrange was nicely present, but again a little dark.
Acme Low B-2II (B) Very deep and very full sounding. Also a very clear cab, but with less mids than some of the other cabs, and brighter highs than Cab A. Id say that it is slightly mid scooped, though not perhaps compared to other cabs not in this shootout. This cab was louder than I expected, but it couldnt take all that the CA9 could put out without showing signs of stress.
EA NL-210 (C) This cab was one of the standouts, and in fact exceeded my expectations (which were actually high to start with). It was as big, deep and full as Cab B in the lows, but with even more crisp high end (compared to Cab B). Midrange clarity was exceptional, with a very quick, very articulate tone and tons of attack. Could not handle full power from CA9 without signs of stress.
EA CxL-210 (D) This cab had probably the most cutting, bright, and clear tone. The midrange response was similar to Cab C, but not as full, especially in the lows. Very, very quick (slightly more so than Cab C), but somewhat thin sounding compared to B and C. Not as dark sounding as A, but with some definite similarities to A, on the whole.
Dr. Bass Custom 2x10 (E) This cab had a similar tonal range to C, but was not as polished. It was not as clear/precise as the best in this group, but had good articulation. There was a hint of vintage warmth to the mids. The high end sounded a bit boxy compared to the best in this group, but would probably be praiseworthy outside of a direct comparison to this particular competition. Not quite as full sounding as B and C, though very close. This cab was the punchiest of the group, and also took all that the CA9 could offer.
Bergantino HT210 (F) This cab was very similar to C, and I was quite surprised by that. Also a true standaout. Most of the comments for C also apply, but it was a bit tighter in the lows (with C being a bit more warm). The mids were a bit more solid sounding, whereas the mids from cab C were a bit more cutting. This cab really sounds like a bass cab, but still remains very dynamic, punchy, full and clear at the same time, and fast, yet with a sense of weight and gravitas. This cab also didnt quite handle all the CA9 could put out.
Glockenklang Duo Wedge (G) This extremely impressive cab sounds like a cross between C and F (which were very close to begin with). It was not quite as big sounding as either C or F, but was very close in this regard. Great articulation, clarity and precision without sounding at all harsh. This cab could take all the CA9 put out without stressing. Again, a standout cab among a very good group.
Accugroove Tri 210L (H) This cab shared some similarities with C, especially in the lows, but was even more full sounding and had the warmest tone, overall, of the group. Even the high notes maintained a certain thickness to them. This cab was not as clear, punchy or dynamic through the mids as some of the rest, but it moved the most air. Handled most of what the CA9 could put out, but not quite all.
Edit: Thanks Tombowlus, you rock!
EA VL-210 (A) This cab was one of a few that could take all that one side of the CA9 could dish out (with the line driver cranked up all the way). In fact, this cab had no signs of breakup at all, even at the highest volumes I could push. The overall tone is slightly dark, with a deep tight low end although the lows to low mids were not as full, overall, as some of the other cabs. Good clarity on the whole, with fairly smooth highs. Midrange was nicely present, but again a little dark.
Acme Low B-2II (B) Very deep and very full sounding. Also a very clear cab, but with less mids than some of the other cabs, and brighter highs than Cab A. Id say that it is slightly mid scooped, though not perhaps compared to other cabs not in this shootout. This cab was louder than I expected, but it couldnt take all that the CA9 could put out without showing signs of stress.
EA NL-210 (C) This cab was one of the standouts, and in fact exceeded my expectations (which were actually high to start with). It was as big, deep and full as Cab B in the lows, but with even more crisp high end (compared to Cab B). Midrange clarity was exceptional, with a very quick, very articulate tone and tons of attack. Could not handle full power from CA9 without signs of stress.
EA CxL-210 (D) This cab had probably the most cutting, bright, and clear tone. The midrange response was similar to Cab C, but not as full, especially in the lows. Very, very quick (slightly more so than Cab C), but somewhat thin sounding compared to B and C. Not as dark sounding as A, but with some definite similarities to A, on the whole.
Dr. Bass Custom 2x10 (E) This cab had a similar tonal range to C, but was not as polished. It was not as clear/precise as the best in this group, but had good articulation. There was a hint of vintage warmth to the mids. The high end sounded a bit boxy compared to the best in this group, but would probably be praiseworthy outside of a direct comparison to this particular competition. Not quite as full sounding as B and C, though very close. This cab was the punchiest of the group, and also took all that the CA9 could offer.
Bergantino HT210 (F) This cab was very similar to C, and I was quite surprised by that. Also a true standaout. Most of the comments for C also apply, but it was a bit tighter in the lows (with C being a bit more warm). The mids were a bit more solid sounding, whereas the mids from cab C were a bit more cutting. This cab really sounds like a bass cab, but still remains very dynamic, punchy, full and clear at the same time, and fast, yet with a sense of weight and gravitas. This cab also didnt quite handle all the CA9 could put out.
Glockenklang Duo Wedge (G) This extremely impressive cab sounds like a cross between C and F (which were very close to begin with). It was not quite as big sounding as either C or F, but was very close in this regard. Great articulation, clarity and precision without sounding at all harsh. This cab could take all the CA9 put out without stressing. Again, a standout cab among a very good group.
Accugroove Tri 210L (H) This cab shared some similarities with C, especially in the lows, but was even more full sounding and had the warmest tone, overall, of the group. Even the high notes maintained a certain thickness to them. This cab was not as clear, punchy or dynamic through the mids as some of the rest, but it moved the most air. Handled most of what the CA9 could put out, but not quite all.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,948
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Just to add one or two finishing touches, here. I should point out that obviously, gigging with a cab or cabs is the real test, and sometimes a cab (or amp, or bass, or whatever) that sounds great in the basement/bedroom doesn't sound so good with a band and/or out on a gig. To that end, let me add some "gig notes."
Some rooms that I play end tend to get boomy either up on stage or sometimes for the whole room. One room is an old train depot, and for whatever reason, whenever I hit a G through an A on the E string, the room goes nuts! Of course, parametric EQ's are your friend, but bringing the right cabs can save a lot of frustration, too. I have found EA cabs to be just the ticket in this room - with two VL-210B's or a CxL-210/CxL-112 stack being particularly good. I gigged this room with two Acme Low B-2II's, and I had a hard time controlling the lows/low-mids. I do think that some of this blame lay with my Stewart World 2.1 and a power supply that might have been slightly lower voltage than optimal (not a good thing with a switching mode power supply amp, IME). I've also gigged in this room with Accugroove cabs (using both SS and tube amps), and I the thick sound is not an asset in this room.
Conversely, for outdoor gigs, you may sometimes find your tone turns thin if there are no walls to reinforce the low end. Acme and Accugroove make it easier to fill in the stage in these environments, though to be honest, I would normally bring a bigger cab or more cabs than just one or two 2x10's for a large outdoor gig. My Tri 210L has seen use with my Whappo, Jr., and with a Gordo 1x18, but I have not tried two Tri 210L's. I think I like it with the Jr. the best, as the Jr. adds some nice midrange presence.
Two noted exceptions to this "thinner/tighter sounding cabs for boomy rooms" and "full/thick sounding cabs for outdoor gigs" are, again, the NL-210 and HT-series cabs from Bergantino. Two NL-210's are thick without being boomy, and clear without sounding thin. Very impressive. And while I don't have two HT210's (yet!), I do also have an HT115 (actually, I have two of those
), and an HT210/HT115 combo is another Swiss Army Knife rig that can do it all. With regard to the Dr. Bass cabs, I have gigged several times with the 2x10 and 1x15. They are both neo-equipped, and very lightweight. After my first experience with them, I made some suggestions to Marc and he offered to do these "upgrades" (such as additional internal bracing/dampening and some other tweaks) at no charge (excellent man, that Marc Serio!). This rig is ridiculously light and compact, but puts out prodigious volume, and has excellent tonal balance. As I noted, they are perhaps not quite as smooth, or "polished" as someof the other cabs, but much of the nuances that I noted in my basement may be lost on a gig, and the 2x10 is exceptionally punchy.
Now, I have been accused of being perhaps too universally praising in my on-line gear posts, and one TBer noted that "I never met a cab I didn't like."
First off, keep in mind that I just finished reviewing 2x10 cabs that I actually own. This means that I either heard them and liked them enough to buy them, or I researched the heck out of them, consulted with people who have played them and whose opinions I trust, then bought them and didn't return them. Yes, it's better to always try before you buy, but in the middle of north central Ohio, there aren't always opportunities to try everything. But regardless, the truth is that there are indeed cabs that I have tried and did not like, or did not like as well as certain other brands. So, this means that when Tom gets around to doing a "shootout" of gear that he already owns, I'm probably going to find something nice to say about each of them, eh? 
Besides, it's just more my style to compare things by describing their relative strengths as opposed to harping on perceived weaknesses (though I do resort to the latter approach on occassion). I also realize that each of these bass gear manufacturers invest a lot of themselves in their designs and their products, and I prefer to compliment them on the things that I like about what I hear from their products, rather than make a negative comment that is based (for the most part) upon my perceptions and my personal preferences.
Sorry for the rant. I just wanted y'all to know where I'm coming from. I do enjoy being able to play around with all this gear (I consider it a privilege), and I like sharing/exchanging thoughts and ideas with my TB buds. Thanks for the kind words, folks!
Later, Tom.
Some rooms that I play end tend to get boomy either up on stage or sometimes for the whole room. One room is an old train depot, and for whatever reason, whenever I hit a G through an A on the E string, the room goes nuts! Of course, parametric EQ's are your friend, but bringing the right cabs can save a lot of frustration, too. I have found EA cabs to be just the ticket in this room - with two VL-210B's or a CxL-210/CxL-112 stack being particularly good. I gigged this room with two Acme Low B-2II's, and I had a hard time controlling the lows/low-mids. I do think that some of this blame lay with my Stewart World 2.1 and a power supply that might have been slightly lower voltage than optimal (not a good thing with a switching mode power supply amp, IME). I've also gigged in this room with Accugroove cabs (using both SS and tube amps), and I the thick sound is not an asset in this room.
Conversely, for outdoor gigs, you may sometimes find your tone turns thin if there are no walls to reinforce the low end. Acme and Accugroove make it easier to fill in the stage in these environments, though to be honest, I would normally bring a bigger cab or more cabs than just one or two 2x10's for a large outdoor gig. My Tri 210L has seen use with my Whappo, Jr., and with a Gordo 1x18, but I have not tried two Tri 210L's. I think I like it with the Jr. the best, as the Jr. adds some nice midrange presence.
Two noted exceptions to this "thinner/tighter sounding cabs for boomy rooms" and "full/thick sounding cabs for outdoor gigs" are, again, the NL-210 and HT-series cabs from Bergantino. Two NL-210's are thick without being boomy, and clear without sounding thin. Very impressive. And while I don't have two HT210's (yet!), I do also have an HT115 (actually, I have two of those
), and an HT210/HT115 combo is another Swiss Army Knife rig that can do it all. With regard to the Dr. Bass cabs, I have gigged several times with the 2x10 and 1x15. They are both neo-equipped, and very lightweight. After my first experience with them, I made some suggestions to Marc and he offered to do these "upgrades" (such as additional internal bracing/dampening and some other tweaks) at no charge (excellent man, that Marc Serio!). This rig is ridiculously light and compact, but puts out prodigious volume, and has excellent tonal balance. As I noted, they are perhaps not quite as smooth, or "polished" as someof the other cabs, but much of the nuances that I noted in my basement may be lost on a gig, and the 2x10 is exceptionally punchy.Now, I have been accused of being perhaps too universally praising in my on-line gear posts, and one TBer noted that "I never met a cab I didn't like."
First off, keep in mind that I just finished reviewing 2x10 cabs that I actually own. This means that I either heard them and liked them enough to buy them, or I researched the heck out of them, consulted with people who have played them and whose opinions I trust, then bought them and didn't return them. Yes, it's better to always try before you buy, but in the middle of north central Ohio, there aren't always opportunities to try everything. But regardless, the truth is that there are indeed cabs that I have tried and did not like, or did not like as well as certain other brands. So, this means that when Tom gets around to doing a "shootout" of gear that he already owns, I'm probably going to find something nice to say about each of them, eh? Besides, it's just more my style to compare things by describing their relative strengths as opposed to harping on perceived weaknesses (though I do resort to the latter approach on occassion). I also realize that each of these bass gear manufacturers invest a lot of themselves in their designs and their products, and I prefer to compliment them on the things that I like about what I hear from their products, rather than make a negative comment that is based (for the most part) upon my perceptions and my personal preferences.Sorry for the rant. I just wanted y'all to know where I'm coming from. I do enjoy being able to play around with all this gear (I consider it a privilege), and I like sharing/exchanging thoughts and ideas with my TB buds. Thanks for the kind words, folks!
Later, Tom.
+1tombowlus said:
While I haven't tried too many of my other tubes yet, I noticed an immediate and significant improvement in tone after putting my NOS Tele's in. Expensive compared to $8-15 EH's and whatnot, but worth it IMHO if you're playing top quality stuff where you can really hear the benefit.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,948
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
jokerjkny said:nice, thx emp..
Yes, thanks! Good idea. I condensed this and my prior 2x10 shootout on my blog, too.
Also, since some folks have asked, I did get a chance to briefly A/B the HT210 to the HT210S down at Bass Emporium last year. While there were definite similarities, to me, the S was a bit more punchy and had more midrange presence, while the HT210 sounded a tad deeper as well as a tad higher (possibly because the comparatively stronger midrange of the S). To be sure, the HT210S is another killer 2x10.
Tom.
btw, forgot to mention, but i'm continually impressed w/ my Acme B2.
at the DC GTG this weekend, i got to try an Aguilar DB750 thru my Acme, and w/ the EQ flat, and using about 50% of both the treb/bass on my Sadowsky, HOLY CRAP, loved the tones!
sooooo full, fat, rich, meaty, and present. no doubt, made me totally GAS for a DB750. w/ a parametric EQ running serial thru the loop, it'd be icing on the cake.
dare i say, i actually preferred the sound of the aggie running thru my Acme than the Whappo Jr alongside it.
both had a very similar neutral range, but the acme had a smoother upper midrange, while the Wjr. was a tad, juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a tad, harsh or so in those upper mids.
still, the official T comparative review is makin' really wish there was a Tri210 to compare it to, cause a friend of mine in the ATL is using a DB750 w/ his Tri210 saying its the ultimate "HUMOGINOUS but in a small package" rig ever.
at the DC GTG this weekend, i got to try an Aguilar DB750 thru my Acme, and w/ the EQ flat, and using about 50% of both the treb/bass on my Sadowsky, HOLY CRAP, loved the tones!
sooooo full, fat, rich, meaty, and present. no doubt, made me totally GAS for a DB750. w/ a parametric EQ running serial thru the loop, it'd be icing on the cake.
dare i say, i actually preferred the sound of the aggie running thru my Acme than the Whappo Jr alongside it.
both had a very similar neutral range, but the acme had a smoother upper midrange, while the Wjr. was a tad, juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a tad, harsh or so in those upper mids.
still, the official T comparative review is makin' really wish there was a Tri210 to compare it to, cause a friend of mine in the ATL is using a DB750 w/ his Tri210 saying its the ultimate "HUMOGINOUS but in a small package" rig ever.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,948
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
jokerjkny said:a friend of mine in the ATL is using a DB750 w/ his Tri210 saying its the ultimate "HUMOGINOUS but in a small package" rig ever.
I can definitely see that being the case! The DB 750 has a huge low end to begin with, and the Tri 210L is by far the thickest low end of this group of 2x10's.
I am glad to hear that the Duo passed muster.
My all time favorite Glock cab is the Tedd. It has an organic rawness to its sound without sacrificing any definition .
I also loved the old acoustic cab that had the 1x10 with 2" dome . It was great for uprights and could be used for electrics in small venues.
My Glock Duo 2x10 is an orginal German made cabinet it is larger than the present one.They were redesigned to fit with the 1x15 cab that came later. I have not had a chance to compare it to the newer ones or the wedge. I would be curious to see how they match up.
I do love its tone.
I am excited about the EA N series 2x10. It looks like it is awinner in the lighter is better tightrope juggling act.
My all time favorite Glock cab is the Tedd. It has an organic rawness to its sound without sacrificing any definition .
I also loved the old acoustic cab that had the 1x10 with 2" dome . It was great for uprights and could be used for electrics in small venues.
My Glock Duo 2x10 is an orginal German made cabinet it is larger than the present one.They were redesigned to fit with the 1x15 cab that came later. I have not had a chance to compare it to the newer ones or the wedge. I would be curious to see how they match up.
I do love its tone.
I am excited about the EA N series 2x10. It looks like it is awinner in the lighter is better tightrope juggling act.
Tom the Tedd was designed to be a full freq cab. its config is 1x15 &1x6, Its light and sounds great.
Check out Glock's website for spec details. I was just on it and found out that they have discontinued the cab.
The only way I would part with mine is probally thru an estate sale.
I suspect that you would love it and also its brother BassArt cab which had a little more top end less growl more articulation. You literally heard everything thru that cab. Very pristine. Great for jazz classical and is a slappers delight.
Keep a lookout for either of thoose 2 cabs. They were the flagship cabinets.
Check out Glock's website for spec details. I was just on it and found out that they have discontinued the cab.
The only way I would part with mine is probally thru an estate sale.
I suspect that you would love it and also its brother BassArt cab which had a little more top end less growl more articulation. You literally heard everything thru that cab. Very pristine. Great for jazz classical and is a slappers delight.
Keep a lookout for either of thoose 2 cabs. They were the flagship cabinets.
1x15" plus 1x6" midrange driver
so apparently Glockenklang also has non-wedge variants as well as Neo-equipped versions of both the wedge and non-wedge as well that only weight 41 lbs. (got that off the website) eenteresting
EDIT: oops, he beat me to it...
Tom, thanks for sharing. Outstanding thread.
Your shootout makes me want to buy at least a couple of other cabs. Heck, you almost make me want to go to law school so I could afford to buy all those hot cabs!
Your shootout makes me want to buy at least a couple of other cabs. Heck, you almost make me want to go to law school so I could afford to buy all those hot cabs!
thejohnkim said:
1x15" plus 1x6" midrange driver
so apparently Glockenklang also has non-wedge variants as well as Neo-equipped versions of both the wedge and non-wedge as well that only weight 41 lbs. (got that off the website) eenteresting
EDIT: oops, he beat me to it...
For the moment, Glock range is a bit difficult to understand and not quite logical.
You can find :
standard cabs : Uno, duo, double, quatro...
light cabs which save 3 to 6 kg by another construction methode : uno lite, duo lite, Take five...
Neo cabs which are standards but with some neodynium speaker : duo neo, quatro neo...
and finaly, neo lite speaker, the lightest of all, which combine neodynium speaker and lightest construction method : duo neo lite, take five neo...
Isn't it a bit confusing ?
For instance quatro neo and Take five (lite version of quatro) have the same weight 31 kg but one with neodynium speakers and the other not...
Sorry if it is not clear, but that speaker range is not yet very clear or logical, indeed, I'd like to speak of it with Udo.
Shiveringbass
You don't happen to know what the crossover frequency is for the 6"?thejohnkim said:
1x15" plus 1x6" midrange driver
so apparently Glockenklang also has non-wedge variants as well as Neo-equipped versions of both the wedge and non-wedge as well that only weight 41 lbs. (got that off the website) eenteresting
EDIT: oops, he beat me to it...
jokerjkny said:btw, forgot to mention, but i'm continually impressed w/ my Acme B2.
at the DC GTG this weekend, i got to try an Aguilar DB750 thru my Acme, and w/ the EQ flat, and using about 50% of both the treb/bass on my Sadowsky, HOLY CRAP, loved the tones!
sooooo full, fat, rich, meaty, and present. no doubt, made me totally GAS for a DB750. w/ a parametric EQ running serial thru the loop, it'd be icing on the cake.
dare i say, i actually preferred the sound of the aggie running thru my Acme than the Whappo Jr alongside it.
both had a very similar neutral range, but the acme had a smoother upper midrange, while the Wjr. was a tad, juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a tad, harsh or so in those upper mids.
still, the official T comparative review is makin' really wish there was a Tri210 to compare it to, cause a friend of mine in the ATL is using a DB750 w/ his Tri210 saying its the ultimate "HUMOGINOUS but in a small package" rig ever.
I've got a DB750 at least for a few more hours....I will be shipping it tonight.
This is a really fine amplifier but I found it a little to slow on the bottom end stuff. Running it through my El Whappo or Tri210L was a real treat for my ears, but in the mix it suffered about 70% of the times I used it. Since the Accu cabs have a huge bottom end, I found myself turning down the bass most of the time. I need a tighter faster sound on stage especially in the lows. I dunno... maybe I screwed up... Maybe Joker's idea of a para eq in the loop would be the answer or a High Pass Filter. Still, compared to my Demeter201s, WWU, and the TFB550 I had recently, the DB750 had the most beautiful full sound but could not compete in the low tight fast arena with the others mentioned. I have a feeling DB750 would be better suited for a sealed cab like the Berg NV or a Coffin. 2cents.
