US income inequality at record high

[edpal]

Your "old" car is 10 years newer than my car.

Hey, hey, no need to brag up your classic car ya elitist!

Just a thought: transportation is crucial to making a consistent income for most. Between saving money on gas, sparing the environment and less stress for you, you might want to consider upgrading the wheels.

 

[edpal]

Here in Michigan you're looking at (in most cases) <$20/hr.

My dad has run every machining operation you can name, has lots of experience with NC and CNC (including massive multistation tool-wheeled Haas and Milwaukee units)... and he can't even get a job as a machinist.

He's working a $15/hr assembly line job.

Of course - the shops around here will tell you they are desperate for machinists, but not if they're over about 45 years of age.

*Note I am in Michigan too. That is sad - I got into a tool & die(t&d) apprenticeship shortly after high school and achieved journeyman's status. In 1984 I was making $12.45/hr. Now with the exception of a few niche areas wages have stagnated badly in t&d. Hard for a top notch form grinder to find a $20+/hr gig any more. Glad I was able to get out of that line of work. Wish your dad luck at finding something better.

 

[DerHoggz]

Hey, hey, no need to brag up your classic car ya elitist!

Just a thought: transportation is crucial to making a consistent income for most. Between saving money on gas, sparing the environment and less stress for you, you might want to consider upgrading the wheels.

Because it is that simple. You're missing the point if your solution is buy a car without knowing the specifics if the situation.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Hey, hey, no need to brag up your classic car ya elitist!

Just a thought: transportation is crucial to making a consistent income for most. Between saving money on gas, sparing the environment and less stress for you, you might want to consider upgrading the wheels.

Because it is that simple. You're missing the point if your solution is buy a car without knowing the specifics if the situation.

+1

That's the issue - most people don't have the needed funds for such an expenditure. I'm not saying everyone should always have the money to buy a 'new' car whenever they want (far from it), but that the ability to save for such an expense has become increasingly difficult and sometimes even completely unobtainable for a decent percentage of people.

 

[two fingers]

Here in Michigan you're looking at (in most cases) <$20/hr.

My dad has run every machining operation you can name, has lots of experience with NC and CNC (including massive multistation tool-wheeled Haas and Milwaukee units)... and he can't even get a job as a machinist.

He's working a $15/hr assembly line job.

Of course - the shops around here will tell you they are desperate for machinists, but not if they're over about 45 years of age.

Simple. Move away from Michigan or learn a different craft that pays better. Fixed. Done.

 

[edpal]

It depends on where you are located. Around here you have to make 100k to live like a pauper.

There is that. My house might cost 2 million in some swanky California area but is worth about 1/9 that here in rural Michigan. A couple where both make $20/hr. might just be able to pull off the payment and still live - just barely.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Simple. Move away from Michigan or learn a different craft that pays better. Fixed. Done.

If you don't have money that isn't necessarily an option...

 

[ArtechnikA]

Simple. Move away from Michigan or learn a different craft that pays better. Fixed. Done.

The problem of age discrimination is not isolated to Michigan.

I have no illusions that I am not in my last "permanent" professional job.

Learning a good-paying skill takes time that further emphasizes the age issue.

You can move away from economically depressed areas, although it typically takes a big chunk of change to pull off (BTDT). And you might be able to move into a higher-paying area. But it is hard to move into an area that pays more but costs less - it is very difficult to get ahead of the game. (It not being what you make, but what you keep.)

If you have enough experience to pull it off successfully - you're probably too old to actually get hired doing it...

 

[edpal]

+1

That's the issue - most people don't have the needed funds for such an expenditure. I'm not saying everyone should always have the money to buy a 'new' car whenever they want (far from it), but that the ability to save for such an expense has become increasingly difficult and sometimes even completely unobtainable for a decent percentage of people.

Never said a "new" car. A better car. A 1989 is very expensive to drive, get parts for,etc. One of my son's sells used cars - lot of poor to lower working class folk can upgrade their car occasionally. I've never owned a new car - I try to find something that is used gently and someone else has taken the depreciation hit on. Millions of poor people in this country and elsewhere know that a running car creates opportunities. And how many musician wanted ads have "must have decent transportation" as a criteria?

Simple. Move away from Michigan or learn a different craft that pays better. Fixed. Done.

I did, twice. Now proudly plundering the wallets of the stupidly rich - occasionally sharing with the poor. Just can't shake that part of my vibe.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I put new in '...' in my post for a reason (meaning the car isn't necessarily brand new). That said, have you seen the price for reliable used vehicles that get decent MPG and have relatively low mileage (sub 100,000) recently? They're so expensive that when I was looking to replace my old truck last year I ended up buying a brand spanking new car because had I gone used I wouldn't have been saving much, nor would I have had any sort of warranty. Again, it's easy to say, "poor people just need to do XYZ" but the reality is that XYZ isn't even a feasible option.

 

[edpal]

I put new in '...' in my post for a reason (meaning the car isn't necessarily brand new). That said, have you seen the price for reliable used vehicles that get decent MPG and have relatively low mileage (sub 100,000) recently? They're so expensive that when I was looking to replace my old truck last year I ended up buying a brand spanking new car because had I gone used I wouldn't have been saving much, nor would I have had any sort of warranty. Again, it's easy to say, "poor people just need to do XYZ" but the reality is that XYZ isn't even a feasible option.

I totally agree - I have been very fortunate that my body hasn't given up, my mind was able to keep after the chase and I dumb lucked into various jobs that paid well and added to my overall skill set. Many born into or dropped into poverty by circumstances not of their own doing aren't as fortunate. Many of the poor don't know what to do when an opportunity comes along. I think that's where the expression "generational poverty" comes from. A poor guy buys a lottery ticket out of desperation, a richer dude buys one because he can.

 

[Unrepresented]

Hey, hey, no need to brag up your classic car ya elitist!

Just a thought: transportation is crucial to making a consistent income for most. Between saving money on gas, sparing the environment and less stress for you, you might want to consider upgrading the wheels.

While I get low 20's in gas mileage, I also don't do too much driving in it.

The car is paid for, the insurance is low, the technology it uses is inexpensive too maintain, and I know what's right and wrong with it having owned it for a few years now. Financially I don't think I could easily get a better ROI.

 

[edpal]

While I get low 20's in gas mileage, I also don't do too much driving in it.

The car is paid for, the insurance is low, the technology it uses is inexpensive too maintain, and I know what's right and wrong with it having owned it for a few years now. Financially I don't think I could easily get a better ROI.

Then you are being fiscally responsible under your circumstances - which is smart. But for some folks that is not an option - they have to drive, they have no skills to maintain it themselves.

If you don't mind the older car then more power too ya - I sort of reveled in the old Grand Am since I have never been a car snob. I could have afforded even a straight up new car but why? Money don't grow on trees.

 

[aborgman]

I think we're pretty much establishing two camps here. One camp thinks we should regulate away any possibility of hurting oneself financially so that even the dumbest among us are protected. And the other thinks we should lean more towards the buyer beware days when we actually used to READ contracts or have an ATTORNEY look them over if we didn't understand them.

False dichotomy.

We can regulate away the WORST possibilities for the financially unaware to hurt themselves without removing all risk.

 

[aborgman]

Millions of people in this country pay none. Is that fair?

The poorest among us pay none. So how are "regressive tax rates" keeping them from moving upwards? Just curious.

Pretty much no one in the USA pays no taxes. That is a canard.

 

[edpal]

False dichotomy.

We can regulate away the WORST possibilities for the financially unaware to hurt themselves without removing all risk.

We COULD regulate it away but then dozens of banks in the Cayman Islands would collapse due to insufficient deposits. j/k I'd agree, an ethical society should make some steps to protect the truly unaware from those who might prey on them. Like any other crime avoidance plan.

I liked your tax chart - yeah, I could have swore like 25-30% of my income has been disappearing into the tax system.

 

[aborgman]

These loans weren't volunteer on the part of the bank. They were forced to make many of them

25 out of the 26 biggest sub prime lenders were not obligated under the CRA at all.

Community Reinvestment Act loans have defaulted at a rate 1/2 that of the general mortgage market.

Jumbo loans have defaulted at a rate 3x that of the general mortgage market.

CRA loans were never subprime, were never no document, etc.

The idea that government regulation, as opposed to greed driven risk taking, was the cause of all these bad loans is hilarious.

 

[aborgman]

So I'm getting the impression that the slaves building the pyramids thought that was fair.

The pyramids were built by paid laborers and folks working off their tax burden... not slaves.

 

[edpal]

The pyramids were built by paid laborers and folks working off their tax burden... not slaves.

No way! There are like papyrus scrolls detailing this or was this in the Mesopotamian Times?

 

[spade2you]

I put new in '...' in my post for a reason (meaning the car isn't necessarily brand new). That said, have you seen the price for reliable used vehicles that get decent MPG and have relatively low mileage (sub 100,000) recently? They're so expensive that when I was looking to replace my old truck last year I ended up buying a brand spanking new car because had I gone used I wouldn't have been saving much, nor would I have had any sort of warranty. Again, it's easy to say, "poor people just need to do XYZ" but the reality is that XYZ isn't even a feasible option.

Used cars used to be a means of saving substantial money. Not really the case any more. Odd, eh?

I agree that there are ZERO simple solutions to the problems brought forth in this thread.