Vacuum tubes are making a comeback.

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Most households in America are likely have a device in their kitchen that depends on a vacuum tube for its operation.
The magnetron!
Now that I think of it, that would be a good brand name for an amplifier.

 

[agedhorse]

The machinery cannot be vastly different from bulb manufacturing. While the higher voltage units are probably dropping in demand, the automotive sector is still huge globally, with production also in very strictly legislated countries in Europe, Asia and Americas. And God only knows how many models of bulbs there are...

It is in fact vastly different. Other than the heater and envelope, everything else is different.

But surely there’s no huge financial investment behind JJ in Slovakia. Or is there?

There was, the purchasing of older tube manufacturing equipment from the North America and Europe for pennies on the dollar combined with inexpensive land, labor and financial assistance from the government made it a viable business model.

That investment was made a long time ago by the previous company, Tesla, or ultimately by the Czechoslovakian communist government.

Correct.

So long as the factory is already built, the tooling paid for, etc. But if some catastrophe befalls the place, it’s not likely it’s be rebuilt. A lot of specialized industries are like that - there are very few (sometimes just one) place that does it, and maintaining and running it makes sense, but no one in their right mind would build another factory to compete, or rebuild one that burns down.

All we have to do is look at what happened in China at Shuguang, there has been no reinvestment but some of the salvageable equipment ended up at two other smaller manufacturers (Linlai and PS Vane)

Most households in America are likely have a device in their kitchen that depends on a vacuum tube for its operation.
The magnetron!
Now that I think of it, that would be a good brand name for an amplifier.

Yes, quite different tubes (especially structures), but those may soon become obsolete with the introduction of the Ampleon device. The low cost plus very high production quantity greatly extended the active life of the Magnetron device.

 

[el murdoque]

You forgot the Orange 200AD

As far as I know the AD-200B Mk III is the current version of the Orange bass amp and that has been around for more than a decade.

 

[aprod]

Do you want to go back to the horse and buggy too?

 

[agedhorse]

Do you want to go back to the horse and buggy too?

Well, aside of doing it for fun... umm no!

 

[Patrice B]

As an aside, Western Electric and Bell created a company in Canada called Northern Electric to build telephone and audio equipment. Western Electric licensed their tube designs to Northern for 50 years. Eventually six companies, including General Electric and RCA, pooled their patients with them. They were a massive tube manufacturing facility that branded tubes under their own name as well as the others. Decentralized manufacturing was a big thing even way back in the early days of tubes.

WE built telephone equipment, switchboards, cables, audio amps, radios, same for everything TV, Hammond organs, and much more. I once owned a 1940’s Hammond organ manufactured by Northern Electric. They also made the tubes that were in the organ. Now, Northern Electric tubes are a brand made in China.

Some interesting radio history here.
Northern Electric Company – Canadian Vintage Radio Society

Northern Electric Radios

Northern Electric morphed into Bell Northern Research and Nortel.
Nortel - Wikipedia

Ahhh! The Nortel company as in the « Nortel Scandal », interesting!

 

[Patrice B]

Even in home/mobile audio, tubed equipment is very rare. They tend to get more attention because of hype and current manufacturers' deliberately making them eye-catching, but I'd estimate there's maybe only one piece of tubed audio equipment built for every hundred thousand solid state items, since personal computers and mobile phones also serve as full-fledged personal audio systems. And, really, these days your average cellphone has much better audio specs than most of the best systems available 60 years ago, what I've seen called the golden age of the tube stereo.

Sorry but my (numerous) hifi tube amps that I still use here have excellent audio specs. BTW, I do not own anything from McIntosh, Harman Kardon, etc… They were among the best systems available back in the 60´s.

An example of the specs of a mid range amp from the golden era you mention: Free Audio Service Manuals - Free download Scott 299C Service Bulletin

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Yes, quite different tubes (especially structures), but those may soon become obsolete with the introduction of the Ampleon device. The low cost plus very high production quantity greatly extended the active life of the Magnetron device.

Yeah, the magnetron is, I think a ceramic resonant cavity device, but I still think that Magnetron would be a good name for an amp. (I just Googled "magnetic amplifier. It does exist). (Now to google Ampleon).

Just say "Mesa Magnetron" once. It kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

"Mesa Ampleon" for the solid state version.

 

[ardgedee]

Sorry but my (numerous) hifi tube amps that I still use here have excellent audio specs. BTW, I do not own anything from McIntosh, Harman Kardon, etc… They were among the best systems available back in the 60´s.

An example of the specs of a mid range amp from the golden era you mention: Free Audio Service Manuals - Free download Scott 299C Service Bulletin

I have a Scott 222C and The Fisher X-202-B, among other equipment. I'm confident in what I said.

 

[Patrice B]

Ok... I'm not an electrical engineer. Now that thats out of the way... Question: I know what a transformer does but why does a tube amp need those heavy transformers to put out 300 watts when a class D can put out 800 watts without a power transformer. Is it the high voltages required for the tubes? Can that be accomplished using class D logic? Please be gentle with me in your response

There is an existing OTL (output transformer less) technology but it’s not often used. Transformers are used to match high impedances of tubes to low impedance of speakers.

As an example, Philips made some tube consoles (you know, the stereo furniture of grandma) with like 800 ohms custom speakers…

 

[AlexanderB]

It is in fact vastly different. Other than the heater and envelope, everything else is different.

Haha, give me a break.... There is even this little gem to show the not irrelevant level of commonality:

Home Brew Vacuum Tubes Are Easier Than You Think

 

[coreyfyfe]

So long as the factory is already built, the tooling paid for, etc. But if some catastrophe befalls the place, it’s not likely it’s be rebuilt. A lot of specialized industries are like that - there are very few (sometimes just one) place that does it, and maintaining and running it makes sense, but no one in their right mind would build another factory to compete, or rebuild one that burns down.

Not sure if you were referencing this or not but that’s supposedly one of the issues with production in China right now. There have been reports that there was a fire or some other damage at Shuguang, they were going to move or repurpose some other space to rebuild but then covid hit and the space was used for other needs.

Two other existing factories are expanding their portfolios and product lines, but I’ve not heard any more about rebuilding of Shuguang.

Edit - looks like Andy beat me to it.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

1. Tubes
   
   never went out of style...

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Well then, there is also this: Western Electric - Maker of electron tubes and high fidelity

Rossville Works Manufacturing Facility — Western Electric - Maker of electron tubes and high fidelity

The 300B tubes are only $700 apiece, and the 97A monoblock amps they are advertising go for a mere $124,999.00 a pair! Yikes!

I'll stick with my collection of vintage Dynacos.

 

[Patrice B]

I have a Scott 222C and The Fisher X-202-B, among other equipment. I'm confident in what I said.

Where does someone find the THD specs of a phone, tablet or computer? I also guess it’s a moot point as it has to go through the horrible tiny integrated speakers .

 

[ardgedee]

Haha, give me a break.... There is even this little gem to show the not irrelevant level of commonality:

Home Brew Vacuum Tubes Are Easier Than You Think

I've read Simplifier's blog before, it's pretty interesting and I like the work they do. But I don't think their processes are scalable to industrial quantities and I don't know whether they could make them consistently enough for matched sets to be economical.

 

[Boneless]

Ok... I'm not an electrical engineer. Now that thats out of the way... Question: I know what a transformer does but why does a tube amp need those heavy transformers to put out 300 watts when a class D can put out 800 watts without a power transformer. Is it the high voltages required for the tubes? Can that be accomplished using class D logic? Please be gentle with me in your response

You can make tube amps without output transformers. Peavey used to offer one a few years ago. (VB-3 I think).

 

[walterw]

Ok... I'm not an electrical engineer. Now that thats out of the way... Question: I know what a transformer does but why does a tube amp need those heavy transformers to put out 300 watts when a class D can put out 800 watts without a power transformer. Is it the high voltages required for the tubes? Can that be accomplished using class D logic? Please be gentle with me in your response

not output transformers because they're the part that links the tubes themselves and the speakers, that's much of where the tube tone comes from to begin with

there are a few makers swapping out the even heavier power transformer though, replacing it with a modern switching power supply that's vastly smaller and lighter, basically using a PC power supply to provide all the internal voltages.

blackstar is doing astonishingly light 50w all-tube guitar amps this way, and i think peavey tried a high-power bass amp like that some years ago

 

[Patrice B]

not output transformers because they're the part that links the tubes themselves and the speakers, that's much of where the tube tone comes from to begin with

there are a few makers swapping out the even heavier power transformer though, replacing it with a modern switching power supply that's vastly smaller and lighter, basically using a PC power supply to provide all the internal voltages.

blackstar is doing astonishingly light 50w all-tube guitar amps this way, and i think peavey tried a high-power bass amp like that some years ago

Thoroidals.

 

[walterw]

It seems vacuum tubes have become like gasoline, I would think the amplifier companies would be smart to make their own vacuum tubes

this is actually a good analogy, in that it would be about like ford trying to drill their own oil and build their own petroleum refineries