Vacuum tubes are making a comeback.

[31HZ]

Apparently these things are also making a 'comeback'.

Boy they were crap first time round.

I wish I had had the foresight to buy a freshly-serviced Nakamichi Dragon about ten years ago.

 

[Dynacord]

@Dynacord

Here it is, the show I was at. He was using a GK800RB head.



The recording of this show was recently released on Bandcamp and it came out great, light-years better than the audio in the video above.

Very cool. And, yeah, the 800RB never seems to die. It's interesting on the jazz fest gig with the backline (which includes a lot of blues and other acts as well) that the range of bass amps remains pretty narrow and consistent. the 800RB, the GK MB150 still gets a TON of use with double bass players (always amazing to see bass players opt for that with 17-20 piece big bands but it's common), SVT and, more recently, Aguliars (which seem to have supplanted the spot that used to be SWR/Eden). There are the odd specific rider requests (vintage B15 with Medeski, Martin & Wood). I pretty much never see whatever is hot on TalkBass at the moment. Have only seen MarkBass a couple times despite how common it is on the club level, etc. but it looks like it's starting to grow. Always seems to be at least one who brings their own Walter Woods - a lot of the jazz guys have done so for decades (Richard Bona and Steve Swallow both did this on my stage).

You buy a McIntosh and that will most likely be the last amp you ever buy unless you're a millionaire but not because of the price, because of the sound, I had one years ago and it was the most beautiful sounding 30 watts I've ever heard. I still hope to get an MC275 power amp, they're expensive but not crazily so, you can get them second hand for 4 -5 grand. I agree with you about Russian tubes, that's a conundrum. JJ's aren't made in russia though and I've always had good luck with them in my SVT's. There are rumors that the U.S government has some Collins R-390A tube receivers stored away somewhere in case of 'problems' They're about the best ever made.

Not the same status or $ but I have a Fisher 500c tube received which just keeps going with daily use and still sounds fantastic. Did have it recapped some years ago but other than that...

 

[Dirk Diggler]

There are less and less analog devices that use tubes to help bring costs down.
It's basically analog vs. digital.
Most modern tube tech comes from the Euro, including Russia.

 

[bobyoung53]

Apparently these things are also making a 'comeback'.

Boy they were crap first time round.

I buy them, you're taking your chances though, if you have a high end tape deck and get a good cassette they can sound very good. I find the ones made in the 1980's and beyond are usually in better shape and there are some to avoid.

 

[bobyoung53]

Very cool. And, yeah, the 800RB never seems to die. It's interesting on the jazz fest gig with the backline (which includes a lot of blues and other acts as well) that the range of bass amps remains pretty narrow and consistent. the 800RB, the GK MB150 still gets a TON of use with double bass players (always amazing to see bass players opt for that with 17-20 piece big bands but it's common), SVT and, more recently, Aguliars (which seem to have supplanted the spot that used to be SWR/Eden). There are the odd specific rider requests (vintage B15 with Medeski, Martin & Wood). I pretty much never see whatever is hot on TalkBass at the moment. Have only seen MarkBass a couple times despite how common it is on the club level, etc. but it looks like it's starting to grow. Always seems to be at least one who brings their own Walter Woods - a lot of the jazz guys have done so for decades (Richard Bona and Steve Swallow both did this on my stage).



Not the same status or $ but I have a Fisher 500c tube received which just keeps going with daily use and still sounds fantastic. Did have it recapped some years ago but other than that...

I've got a Fisher 400, needs to be recapped too but they sound great.

 

[AlexanderB]

The manufacturing costs (tooling, raw materials, etc.) would be one set of numbers, but then, you'd have to pass who knows how many environmental hurdles in terms of industrial waste(s) from the process, which could add a whole 'nother set of costs, which I'm assuming could be another part of the exonomics being just wrong for the volume production expected.

The machinery cannot be vastly different from bulb manufacturing. While the higher voltage units are probably dropping in demand, the automotive sector is still huge globally, with production also in very strictly legislated countries in Europe, Asia and Americas. And God only knows how many models of bulbs there are...

 

[conttador]

First, Hammond didn’t make their own tubes, neither did ANY amp or musical instrument manufacturer.

Second, you are grossly underestimating the fixed cost of manufacturing vacuum tubes. To set up a new production line for a tube family like the 12A_7 with materials handling, tooling, glass works OC test lab, production machinery, building and permits would run probably around $10M. This has to be amortized over the life of the production. MI demand for these tubes is simply not high enough to justify that kind of investment. This is in addition to the cost of materials, overhead and labor for manufacturing the tubes.

Older style tubes are an even worse business model, the demand is hundreds of times too low to justify manufacturing.

Reality is B!+<H!

There’s a reason why no amp manufacturer has ever gotten into tube manufacturing…

 

[Phaidrus]

I don't see a comeback.

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century. There are still a few SS amps out there, doing good service, but D class is ruling the market.

Strange. I mostly see SVTs and fridges on stage.

 

[micguy]

Ok... I'm not an electrical engineer. Now that thats out of the way... Question: I know what a transformer does but why does a tube amp need those heavy transformers to put out 300 watts when a class D can put out 800 watts without a power transformer. Is it the high voltages required for the tubes? Can that be accomplished using class D logic? Please be gentle with me in your response

Agedhorse explained this impedance wise. Another way of looking at it is voltage and current - tube amps operate at high voltages and low current. To drive a speaker, you need high current and less voltage. A transformer is what you need to make those two worlds work with each other.

 

[Phaidrus]

First, Hammond didn’t make their own tubes, neither did ANY amp or musical instrument manufacturer.

Second, you are grossly underestimating the fixed cost of manufacturing vacuum tubes. To set up a new production line for a tube family like the 12A_7 with materials handling, tooling, glass works OC test lab, production machinery, building and permits would run probably around $10M. This has to be amortized over the life of the production. MI demand for these tubes is simply not high enough to justify that kind of investment. This is in addition to the cost of materials, overhead and labor for manufacturing the tubes.

Older style tubes are an even worse business model, the demand is hundreds of times too low to justify manufacturing.

But surely there’s no huge financial investment behind JJ in Slovakia. Or is there?

 

[ardgedee]

The machinery cannot be vastly different from bulb manufacturing. While the higher voltage units are probably dropping in demand, the automotive sector is still huge globally, with production also in very strictly legislated countries in Europe, Asia and Americas. And God only knows how many models of bulbs there are...

Tubes are very different from light bulbs. The glass envelope is nearly the only thing they have in common.

btw I hope you've noticed that incandescent light bulbs are getting harder to find too.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Vacuum tubes are making a comeback

On which continent? That would be where to look for tubes….

 

[Pocket Dave]

Hey OP, nice troll, though you missed April fool's day by about a week.

 

[GretschWretch]

I've read only the first two pages of this thread, but I would like to say the only reason I am passing along my tube combo, a Yorkville YBA-4, is the weight; it now is too danged heavy for me to want to lift. Love everything else about it. I am moving on my solid-state Yorkville BLOC250B for the same reason: too much weight, too little need.

I AM keeping my all tube Fender/Bogan hybrid amp my father handwired for me while I was still in high school, although that amp may never again leave my house. The homemade (by a retired cabinetmaker) equivalent of a Dual Showman 15 also likely is never to leave the house, for the same reason as the Yorkville.

Is there still demand for tubes? Based on my sample of one, there is. Within the last month I discovered that my local sound system supplier has on staff both an amp tech and a guitar tech and is within 30 minutes' drive from my house. The amp tech has a tester, and he wants tubes. He's even willing to barter repair work for tubes.

Rock and roll is here to stay, and so may be vacuum tubes, just not as many as they used to.

 

[gln1955]

But surely there’s no huge financial investment behind JJ in Slovakia. Or is there?

That investment was made a long time ago by the previous company, Tesla, or ultimately by the Czechoslovakian communist government.

 

[Phaidrus]

That investment was made a long time ago by the previous company, Tesla, or ultimately by the Czechoslovakian communist government.

Are JJ a profitable company today? I suppose so.

 

[GreyBeard]

AGAIN?

 

[micguy]

Are JJ a profitable company today? I suppose so.

So long as the factory is already built, the tooling paid for, etc. But if some catastrophe befalls the place, it’s not likely it’s be rebuilt. A lot of specialized industries are like that - there are very few (sometimes just one) place that does it, and maintaining and running it makes sense, but no one in their right mind would build another factory to compete, or rebuild one that burns down.

 

[AlexanderB]

I

Tubes are very different from light bulbs. The glass envelope is nearly the only thing they have in common.

btw I hope you've noticed that incandescent light bulbs are getting harder to find too.

Car tires or cotton gloves are very different from tubes. I would say bulbs and tubes share a number of principles, and manufacturers of tubes often made bulbs, too. (Philips, Sylvania, Grundig, General Electric, Siemens etc.)
And no, there is ZERO problem in sourcing any automotive bulb I can think of, generic or bespoke.

 

[ac100X]

I've read your post twice, but I failed to spot where you explain your reasons to believe that vacuum tubes are making a comeback.
The last time I checked, the direction tubes are heading is the way out. I think the Mesa Prodigy and Strategy have been the only two modern all tube bass amps with more than 150 watts to hit the market in over a decade - and both have been discontinued.

Tubes seem to be used in audiophile high end setups (where cost literally does not matter) and in guitar/bass amplifiers, but nowhere else these days. Both rather small markets that won't justify keeping many plants going, let alone compete for the best prices.

You forgot the Orange 200AD