I was more after "de-mystifying" the process. There are already enough myths around tubes.
And there is a degree of commonality, with bulb manufacturing.
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Vacuum tubes are making a comeback.
- Thread starter Charles Riggs
- Start date
I was more after "de-mystifying" the process. There are already enough myths around tubes.
And there is a degree of commonality, with bulb manufacturing.
Anyway, there is basically *nothing* tubes do that can't be replicated with solid stage technology¹ (employing digital modelling, if necessary). The only thing that is not tube-related but truly imparts a "vintage" tone is the elevated output impedance, which essentially changes the frequency response of the amp according to the speaker's impedance curve. You can achieve this even with solid state power amps (not sure about Class D power amps, but you certainly can do this with traditional AB power amps). You can even retrofit an existing power amp with a very simple circuit to increase the output impedance of the power amp to replicate this "coupling" of amp and speaker. (Essentially, you will get a fatter and possibly brighter sound since the amp will essentially respond to the speaker's impedance curve; this tends to work poorly with bass reflex speakers).
¹ digital models almost always go for a rough approximation in order to make the emulation practical performance-wise. You can make the emulation more faithful, but... There are lots of subtle behaviours that can be proven not to make any discenible difference to the user, so you can forgo implementing these behaviours.
¹ digital models almost always go for a rough approximation in order to make the emulation practical performance-wise. You can make the emulation more faithful, but... There are lots of subtle behaviours that can be proven not to make any discenible difference to the user, so you can forgo implementing these behaviours.
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The last decent sized festival gig I did before Covid had an Aggie DB728/DB680 all tube poweramp/preamp + Aggie 4x10 for the bass backline.
The same regional sound co in NCal that did that show has also put an Aguilar 750+DB810 cab rig on backline stages I've played in the area.
maybe it's a regional thing ?
I've seen all kinds of backlines over the years, with SVT's/fridges being really common. But I've seen GK, Eden, Fender and even a Mesa Subway D800+/subway 2 x 112 rig at Phil Lesh's old Terrapin Crossing venue.
I wish I had had the foresight to buy a freshly-serviced Nakamichi Dragon about ten years ago.
I did get a hold of two cherry Studer/Revox B710's, which is about the only other deck that could give a Dragon a run for it's money.
What you say may be true, and I won't argue about it because it would most likely be fruitless, but at some point in my life I do hope to own a pair of McIntosh MC75s, or an MC275.
I guess the OP theory has some holes...
Question for @agedhorse : Is the current difficulty sourcing new tubes, and the lack (or dwindling) of manufacturing facilities impacting companies that manufacture tube amps, such as Fender, Ampeg, Marshall, Mesa, etc.?
I ask this because I’m planning to buy a new Ampeg SVT.
Do you ever see the models of tubes that are popular in guitar and bass preamps, and the tubes that are most commonly used in the power sections of tube amps ever going to disappear?
I ask this because I’m planning to buy a new Ampeg SVT.
Do you ever see the models of tubes that are popular in guitar and bass preamps, and the tubes that are most commonly used in the power sections of tube amps ever going to disappear?
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This is spot on.
And, I’ll go further. Vacuum tube production was one of the USA’s great economic platforms; and the history of its evolution is a lesson in macro economics. Here is the sequence, and a few of the takeaways:
1) R&D invents the technology. In this case, the triode tube, ca. 1905
Vacuum tube - Wikipedia
2) The technology gets used for certain boutique applications, but lacks infrastructure for scaled manufacturing.
3) An urgency arises - WWI, ca. 1917. The US Congress authorizes spending to build scale factories to produce wartime volume of radio tubes due to losses of merchant vessels at sea.
4) Radio becomes a common consumer item; ca. 1930’s. Key to cost is scale manufacturing from wartime infrastructure.
5) CRT’s are introduced as extension of the radio tube as the technology matures; television becomes a consumer item; ca 1950’s. This product extension has a cycle life from 1950’s until the introduction of the flat panel display; ca. 1990.
Here are the takeaways:
1) There is always a lag between invention of the idea and the establishment of infrastructure. Here we see about a 15 year gap. There are lots of ideas out there. But, the key step is the infrastructure; which includes factories, but also a critical mass of people familiar with the technology for the supply chain, engineering, and distribution.
2) For profit companies never build large scale infrastructure. That kind of investment does not pay back in 3 years. These large economic platforms requiring more than 10 years for payback are only built by the government in times of national urgency. The establishment of the critical infrastructure is the key step in enabling the technology.
3) We have only funded these kinds of investment cycles in times of war. It literally requires that kind of urgency to justify the impact on the Debt. Ironically, we have only paid the debt down in the years when the technology matures.
4) The ultimate expression of the technology is commonly achieved by For Profit companies innovating on the technology to create something new using the established infrastructure; in this case television CRT tubes vs radio tubes.
To some extent, it’s kind of like gardening, where it takes the government to come in to prepare the soils and plot of land, and the For Profit companies to come in and figure out what they can grow there.
There is a strikingly similar cycle one can trace for the semiconductor industry; where the product of the “Man on the Moon” Cold War urgency produced some fairly useless moon rocks and our entire semiconductor industry.
It seems unfortunate that we don’t seem to be able to recognize these dynamics. For Profit companies certainly play a key role. The government also plays a key role. Both are required.
Finally, it would be really nice, if we could figure out how to do this without having the urgency of war.
One can hope. There are lots of ideas out there.
Wasn’t mesas rationale for canceling the strategy and prodigy tube amps that they couldn’t get enough reliable KT88s to support manufacturing and warranty claims?
If you’re looking for a new SVT ampeg discontinued the SVT-VR and only sell the CL and heritage/anniversary models. Don’t think that’s related to any tube issues though, likely more just trimming products with lower sales or higher costs.
I’m leaning towards a brand new Heritage SVT-CL, but I’m not opposed to saving some money and buying a new SVT-CL Classic.
But I also just “discovered” the Costello Black Mark head, and I’m also considering it. It looks like the 300 watt model is in the same price range as the HSVT-CL.
I listen to AM radio every single day…I’m sitting here wondering, did any of the respondents read the entire original post?
(Of course, they did, I’m being facetious to make a point….)
I read the OP a few times and I still made a *** thought at the end of nearly every sentence. 1955 car radios? Drug store tube testing (how could you have left out Radio Shack and the local electronics stores)? Musical amplifier makers making their own tubes??? And those makers building gear to “force” tube manufacturing back into existence? What is this, Field Of Dreams?
AM radio??? There’s hardly anyone using terrestrial radio of any kind these days.
And the best one yet….
“One day hopefully soon, There will be Vacuum tube vending machines at music stores, hardware stores, gas stations, liquor stores? “.
Oh, yeah, Sparky’s Wine and Spirits was the first place I thought of when I re-tubed my SVT several years ago!…..
Okay…I officially have no words….well, almost….
“Hey, the 20th century called, they want 1955 back”….
Okay, now I’m done….
That was a long time ago, I don't even remember the amp I took this out, but it was one of the power tubes, from the base I'd say a Sovtek 6L6WGC...
A bit underbiased maybe ?
Blu DeTiger uses an Aguilar DB751 (with three 12AX7 tube preamp, speak of the devil!) on stage, to good effect.
@ 11:00
I'm sure there must be plenty out there. I was only referring to what I've seen firsthand.
Put it on eBay. I guarantee somebody will buy it.
Apparently these things are also making a 'comeback'.
Boy they were crap first time round.
But they were better than the eight-track cartridges they replaced.
I wish I had had the foresight to buy a freshly-serviced Nakamichi Dragon about ten years ago.
I used to have one and a CR-7a. You can get a CR-7a for a lot cheaper and to my ear, when I had them in some very revealing systems, I thought the CR-7a acquitted itself quite well. I used to have a TD-1200II in a couple of my cars in the '80's. The ritual was, buy an album, record it onto a fresh Nak metal cassette tape (ZXL or something like that) and listen to the tape at home, in the car, anywhere. Anyone who tells you cassettes can't do hi fi never heard them done right.
What are the environmental issues? The only one I can find is thorium, but the production of rare earth magnets produces mountains of thorium waste.
Is silicon a clean industry?
The US needs to get back on top in the semiconductor industries. We need to rely on ourselves, and not rely on other countries supplying critical technologies. We need new experts in the semiconductor industries right here in the US.
