Vacuum tubes are making a comeback.

[pablohonig]

@agedhorse Here's to the future? Invalid Link Removed

Was hoping there might be updates on nano tubes since this write up from 2012!

 

[Ronnie Thunders]

Because I like my neighbors!

 

[IamGroot]

What are the environmental issues? The only one I can find is thorium, but the production of rare earth magnets produces mountains of thorium waste.

Is silicon a clean industry?

Thorium is an element with a lot of nuances. Its slightly radioactive, so you don't just toss it down the drain. Thorium is an element with declining demand, unless we use it as a nuclear fuel which is extremely unlikely. Most of the thorium in the US comes a byproduct of Rare Earth mining, plus one Th mine in Utah.

The US has exactly one Rare Earth mine at Mountain Pass, Ca which has had environmental issues and nankruptcy issues. Thorium is a byproduct. The materials are seperated by counter current extraction and the new solvents developed in the last two years have significnatly improved recovery and purity . BTW, the technology is very similar to that used for purifying radiactive isotopes using the Purex process.

I am not worried about mountains of Thorium.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I don't see a comeback.

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century. There are still a few SS amps out there, doing good service, but D class is ruling the market.

Class D only rules the market for guys who have to carry their own amps.

 

[Guitalia]

Nah. I've tried most modeling systems and they don't come close to the attack of actual tube power sections.
And my dad was an electronic engineer...we had this debate several times. I have no real interest in the charted sine wave pattern which is supposed to please my ear. I'm interested in the actual pleasure of my ear.

Don't get agedhorse started on the topic of golden-eared (and therefore non-engineer) audiophiles.

 

[Geri O]

I don't see a comeback.

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century. There are still a few SS amps out there, doing good service, but D class is ruling the market.

Strange. I mostly see SVTs and fridges on stage.

Both are kinda right. Depending on the stage….

Small clubs and regional bands are more likely to be using smaller SS and Class D rigs that they supply themselves. Sure, some guys in those groups carry tube amps.

Larger stages for concerts and festivals do see a good number of SVTs. Backline companies supply SVTs because most backline rider call for “xxx amp w/ xxx cabinet or an 810 SVT”. Heck, mine does, although my rider is more of a preferred or requested amp…
These observations are from kinda-touring, more weekend trips out and back in again. And a lot of the large festivals supply SVTs because it’s pretty well accepted.

Of course, I hope this little details doesn’t blow everyone’s arguments out of the water. I’be been seeing an ever-increasing number of groups requiring no bass rig at all. Oh, noooo . Again, because I’m on IEMs, I wouldn’t ask for a rig if my boss and bandleader strongly insist that I use a bass amp. Which I’m perfectly happy to do. Either my own Class D Mesa Subway rig or the supplied SVT (where I have no control over the grin on my face when I see it….).

 

[Paul New]

Grocery stores, too.

 

[Topkat13]

So are whisk brooms!

 

[mrjim123]

OP. No, they're not.

 

[bobyoung53]

View attachment 5026519 Operation saturation

'67 Bassman

 

[bobyoung53]

OP. No, they're not.

Right, they never went away.

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah, the magnetron is, I think a ceramic resonant cavity device, but I still think that Magnetron would be a good name for an amp. (I just Googled "magnetic amplifier. It does exist). (Now to google Ampleon).

Just say "Mesa Magnetron" once. It kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

"Mesa Ampleon" for the solid state version.

Got a chuckle out of me.

There is an existing OTL (output transformer less) technology but it’s not often used. Transformers are used to match high impedances of tubes to low impedance of speakers.

As an example, Philips made some tube consoles (you know, the stereo furniture of grandma) with like 800 ohms custom speakers…

The OTL concept is extremely inefficient, making it hard to deliver much power without consuming and wasting a LOT.

Direct drive OTL amps into high impedance loads won't fly today due to safety regulations (and rightly so).

Haha, give me a break.... There is even this little gem to show the not irrelevant level of commonality:

Home Brew Vacuum Tubes Are Easier Than You Think

It's one thing to spend say 50 hours to make a one-off, but to scale it up to ECONOMIC production is an entirely different animal.

Where does someone find the THD specs of a phone, tablet or computer? I also guess it’s a moot point as it has to go through the horrible tiny integrated speakers .

Typically less than 0.01% THD at say 1/2 rated power. I have seen some chip sets down in the 0.001% range too.

I've read Simplifier's blog before, it's pretty interesting and I like the work they do. But I don't think their processes are scalable to industrial quantities and I don't know whether they could make them consistently enough for matched sets to be economical.

Could you imagine the arguments in the guitar world about the tone of each tube by individual unit if they weren't at least reasonably consistent?

You can make tube amps without output transformers. Peavey used to offer one a few years ago. (VB-3 I think).

No, they all had output transformers. The VB-3 had a toroidal OT IIRC, and used an SMPS (which has a small high frequency isolation transformer.

Question for @agedhorse : Is the current difficulty sourcing new tubes, and the lack (or dwindling) of manufacturing facilities impacting companies that manufacture tube amps, such as Fender, Ampeg, Marshall, Mesa, etc.?

I ask this because I’m planning to buy a new Ampeg SVT.

Do you ever see the models of tubes that are popular in guitar and bass preamps, and the tubes that are most commonly used in the power sections of tube amps ever going to disappear?

Yes, definitely. We are all impacted to some extent. I would expect that some of the lesser used tubes to be end of lifed, BUT with global conditions being as they are, nothing is certain.

Wasn’t mesas rationale for canceling the strategy and prodigy tube amps that they couldn’t get enough reliable KT88s to support manufacturing and warranty claims?

This was a large part of it. The tubes were inconsistent from lot to lot (and sometimes within a lot). Since the Strategy/Prodigy was a pretty hot rodded design, inconsistent tubes were a bigger challenge for these amps.

What are the environmental issues? The only one I can find is thorium, but the production of rare earth magnets produces mountains of thorium waste.

Is silicon a clean industry?

Thorium is one, but it's the processing of the steel, the acids, the plating, the coating of the anode and cathode, and especially the lead in the base glass (called fritt glass) which is used to manage the rate of expansion so that the pins and the glass track more closely. It also makes the glass more "sticky" when forming the lead seals.

@agedhorse Here's to the future? Invalid Link Removed

Was hoping there might be updates on nano tubes since this write up from 2012!

I haven't seen anything more either.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

You havent seen a tube bass amp on stage in 20+ years? You must not get out much. Or only going to a very narrow range of shows. I saw two this week and I know I don’t get out much.

Class D is certainly dominating the market, but even there many manufacturers and designers - some of whom have commented here - are using tube preamp/hybrid designs. I don’t see a big tube manufacturing comeback, but as long as they’re being manufactured somewhere the demand on the amp side will still exist in the market at some level, however niche it may be.

I find this highly suspect I've seen a Ampeg Svt and Marshall stack at almost every show I've been to including pub gigs

 

[fdeck]

Thorium is one, but it's the processing of the steel, the acids, the plating, the coating of the anode and cathode, and especially the lead in the base glass (called fritt glass) which is used to manage the rate of expansion so that the pins and the glass track more closely. It also makes the glass more "sticky" when forming the lead seals.

That's it. The optics industry went through a change-over to lead free glass. I remember a whole bunch of part changes that I had to approve. But I don't know if anybody came up with a good glass for tube seals. The folks who bought the Western Electric brand say that they've worked past the environmental issues, but I don't know any details.

You can get an exception, but it works by agreeing that you'll take back any of your products, to recycle the parts, probably not practical in the MI industry.

 

[MarshallAC50Stack]

Strange. I mostly see SVTs and fridges on stage.

Hired, or if there are roadies/stage hands, it all makes sense, because they are fine sounding amps.

What are the environmental issues? The only one I can find is thorium, but the production of rare earth magnets produces mountains of thorium waste.

Is silicon a clean industry?

Thanks! All I've been able to find about tube manufacturing is that Western Electric claims that the components and process are not environmentally toxic. As to the silicon industry...we're screwed. String bass and candlelight from now on.

 

[walterw]

Class D only rules the market for guys who have to carry their own amps.

i.e., probably 90% of amps purchased

 

[J Wilson]

Aren't Coming Back.

Aren't Coming Back.

Aren't Coming Back.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Aren't Coming Back.

Aren't Coming Back.

And Neither Is This.

 

[mikeswals]

Where are guitar players getting their tubes?

They seem to care far more than bass players about their tube amps.

From the tube shops! AFAIK they're all still around. I get mine from Eurotubes in Portland.
GC stocks tubes in all the stores here, so does the local chain. Sweetwater sells tubes. Tube Depot and The Tube Store are still out there too.
You can fish around both ebay and reverb and find tube retailers in a matter of seconds.

 

[mikeswals]

I find this highly suspect I've seen a Ampeg Svt and Marshall stack at almost every show I've been to including pub gigs

Yup I see them all the time too.
Just go down and watch heavy rock or metal in the clubs and and they're all over the place.

 

[el murdoque]

Your right, I 'm not good with names. Well this amp. I believe it has tubes....

It does.
I'd say there are the "Big Three" of still-in-production all tube amps that have the power to drive a big rig at big rig volumes.
The SVT, the Super Bassman, and the AD-200B.
All those have been around for a long time and not seen much change over the decades.