Venting - LS can't handle playing in a bar that serves shots.

[zeronyne]

Only having the context of your anecdote, I wonder if he was nervous because his family and friends were sitting in the audience. Maybe this type of stress drinking can be reigned in by addressing it with him.

 

[Brad Johnson]

He was at work and was s..t faced - and it was a man in his 60's who did that, not some young newbie. When I was 18 I drank at a gig - not s..t faced- and at the end of the night the band said my timing was terrible all night. I have never drank at a gig ever since.

A man of 60 - honest mistake? Considering co-workers - he is working -never occurred to him?

You may be right ... if I was a betting man...

What was the occassion that brought his family out?

Maybe the band should gig at Starbucks.


It's interesting to see how many go with the assumption that one mistake equals perpetual behavior.

 

[Stumbo]

What was the occassion that brought his family out?
...It's interesting to see how many go with the assumption that one mistake equals perpetual behavior.

It may be one mistake on a the gig but since his family was there obviously they are part of his problem by egging him on to continue drinking and them knowing what happens to him when he over indulges. Seems like it's a normal (for them) to continue imbibing to excess.

One of my brother-in-laws was a functioning employed alcoholic until he wasn't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It may be one mistake on a the gig but since his family was there obviously they are part of his problem by egging him on to continue drinking and them knowing what happens to him when he over indulges. Seems like it's a normal (for them) to continue imbibing to excess.

One of my brother-in-laws was a functioning employed alcoholic until he wasn't.

"Obviously" is the conclusion I'm taking issue with. It has to be how you assume it is? No exceptions?

It's just my continuing problem with absolutes.


This is like those stories where motivations are assumed upfront. The backstory is filled in and people find out they were dead wrong. Because "what if" didn't cross their minds. They know... what they clearly don't know.

 

[bolophonic]

Sounds like this is the first time that the LS acted in such a manner and your ready to throw in the towel on him.
I could understand if this was reoccurring behavior...But one time?

I quit drinking over 20 years ago. I hold all drunks at arms length. It's pretty much a zero-tolerance policy: people can get wasted on their own time, but I'm under no obligation to stick around for it.

 

[Stumbo]

"Obviously" is the conclusion I'm taking issue with. It has to be how you assume it is? No exceptions?

It's just my continuing problem with absolutes.

IME, when someone does something in public so easily and without concern, I suspect it happens regularly in private.

I can rephrase it for you:
Based on the behavior of the LS' family, they appear to be a major part of his imbibing to excess since this situation has not arisen previously.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Only having the context of your anecdote, I wonder if he was nervous because his family and friends were sitting in the audience. Maybe this type of stress drinking can be reigned in by addressing it with him.

That makes so much sense (oh no, all my friends and family are here - I'd better making myself into a drooling fool) that I'd suspect it's true except that the OP specifically said the singer's wife was insisting he drink shots. Drunks don't like to drink alone so I'm guessing that those guessing his family is the problem are spot-on. However, that doesn't necessarily mean this dude or his wife or sons are alcoholics; alcoholics happily get smashed on beer and/or wine so they could just as easily attend every show and get smashed. If I had to guess - and obviously I don't - I'd guess there was some specific occasion (read: excuse) to get smashed or some specific stressor driving this behavior.

 

[JohnnyBottom]

This is why alcoholics typically either become teetotallers or remain alcoholics.

It seems to me...Remaining an 'active' alcoholic will slowly result in jail, death, loss of everything 'eventually'. Things wont get better for sure. The alcoholics here know this, but for the non...
The 'real' alcoholic always remains alcoholic forever and needs to remember that. Once a pickle never going to be a cucumber again. I know many with 1-40+ years of sobriety but still alcoholics. Once an alcoholic takes 1 drink a physical craving for more starts which doesnt happen to the average person, and telling an alcoholic to 'quit' isnt doable since a 'real' alcoholic lost the power to choose. He/she maybe can stay stopped for a duration based on fear, but thats short term and they will be miserable. In the old days and now the law, doctors, psychiatrists have no solution. Only hope may be, when entirely 'ready', to talk to a recovering alcoholic for the solution.
Is this guy a real alcoholic or a hard drinker? idk.

 

[Brad Johnson]

IME, when someone does something in public so easily and without concern, I suspect it happens regularly in private.

I can rephrase it for you:
Based on the behavior of the LS' family, they appear to be a major part of his imbibing to excess since this situation has not arisen previously.

How did you determine the ease and level of concern?

 

[7615]

What was the occassion that brought his family out?

Maybe the band should gig at Starbucks.


It's interesting to see how many go with the assumption that one mistake equals perpetual behavior.

It is the fact that he is in his 60's that makes me assume as much. I am in my 60's and embarrassing band mates and myself -wouldn't even cross my mind.

plus the W C Fields reference to his nose.

might be a one off...alcoholism is a huge problem with musicians - I have never seen a single mistake of s... faced. A little inebriated - could have played better, sure. Every example of s... faced IME has been followed by additional incidents of s… faced.

The OP has reason for concern and wants to know where he stands going forward. I would have my radar up.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It is the fact that he is in his 60's that makes me assume as much. I am in my 60's and embarrassing band mates and myself -wouldn't even cross my mind.

plus the W C Fields reference to his nose.

might be a one off...alcoholism is a huge problem with musicians - I have never seen a single mistake of s... faced. A little inebriated - could have played better, sure. Every example of s... faced IME has been followed by additional incidents of s… faced.

The OP has reason for concern and wants to know where he stands going forward. I would have my radar up.

Gotta love a fact (age) leading to an assumption (alcoholism). Hey, if that works for you...


Hell, he's probably bipolar too. After all, he's 60.


Plus overlaying what you would do onto everyone else, regardless of specifics.

No need for radar being up, just fire him. After all, you already know the future.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It seems to me...Remaining an 'active' alcoholic will slowly result in jail, death, loss of everything 'eventually'. Things wont get better for sure. The alcoholics here know this, but for the non...
The 'real' alcoholic always remains alcoholic forever and needs to remember that. Once a pickle never going to be a cucumber again. I know many with 1-40+ years of sobriety but still alcoholics. Once an alcoholic takes 1 drink a physical craving for more starts which doesnt happen to the average person, and telling an alcoholic to 'quit' isnt doable since a 'real' alcoholic lost the power to choose. He/she maybe can stay stopped for a duration based on fear, but thats short term and they will be miserable. In the old days and now the law, doctors, psychiatrists have no solution. Only hope may be, when entirely 'ready', to talk to a recovering alcoholic for the solution.
Is this guy a real alcoholic or a hard drinker? idk.

Yes, he's an alcoholic. So is his family.

 

[7615]

Gotta love a fact (age) leading to an assumption (alcoholism). Hey, if that works for you...


Hell, he's probably bipolar too. After all, he's 60.


Plus overlaying what you would do onto everyone else, regardless of specifics.

No need for radar being up, just fire him. After all, you already know the future.

I thought at 60 plus he was a grown up - my bad.

Every single person I know who pounds them back in their 60's is not a one off.

I am not saying fire him, I am saying the OP needs to know going forward what to expect.

AL-ANON was created for a reason. Those who associate with drinkers have to protect themselves.

I can't imagine humiliating friends or colleagues. Just a mistake ? Maybe. If it happens again then what?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I thought at 60 plus he was a grown up - my bad.

Every single person I know who pounds them back in their 60's is not a one off.

I am not saying fire him, I am saying the OP needs to know going forward what to expect.

AL-ANON was created for a reason. Those who associate with drinkers have to protect themselves.

I can't imagine humiliating friends or colleagues. Just a mistake ? Maybe. If it happens again then what?

You don't leave room for "mistakes".

You actually thought that being a grown up was tied to age. I know some extremely immature/petty seniors... and ages below that too. If that's what you're hanging this on, it's predictable by all means. But it doesn't make it true.

Everyone you've ever known has jack to do with this. Because individuals. It's clear you're not going to see that. The fact that you don't seem to know anyone who's ever gotten drunk but isn't an alcoholic may be true. IME people who aren't used to heavy drinking can have it sneak up on them on the rare occassion that they do.

If it happens again it would not be the lone incident that it is. But you and many others choose to assume the worst based on guesses and bias. And act as if it's true and the future is set.

By your logic I should be in Al-Anon because of my 80's birthday celebration. I understand that it only seems silly to a handful of folks like myself.


Fascinating responses. I expected no less.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Over the years my greatest disappointments / betrayals - personal and musical - have been at the hands of alcoholics.

I have sympathy for sober friends and families of alcoholics but alcoholics I see as abusers to be avoided.

I know i know it's s disease - but imagine your friend with cancer if they knew the cure was just quit.

Alcoholism has a cure - quit - but the obvious pain in those around them rarely motivates them to quit.

Feel it out - was that the first gig with family - maybe the type of bar is not the problem / maybe it is once he is surrounded by other drunks where he won't be judged is the problem - but no matter how you approach it - you are trying to solve not your problem but his and that is a problem over which you have no control.

Maybe say to another band member casually - gheez Friday was a real s- show hopefully that was a one off- see how they react.

My guess it's his family not the location.





.

My StepDad was an alcoholic. Spent a little time in Al-Anon.

First don't buy into the crap that alcoholism is a "disease"! NO!!

A disease by definition can be cured and you go back to normal. There is no cure, a cure would allow you to then drink again without the inherent problems. Clearly, that does not happen.

Once you are an alcoholic, you are ALWAYS an alcoholic.

I have known more than a few alcoholics, I tend to keep them at arm's length in my life. That being said, I cut anyone slack who has entered recovery. By "slack" I mean that over a say several decades, I expect that on occasion the person will slip into the old habit. My observation show me that the more years they are in recovery, the quicker they get back on the wagon and in the program.

What I'm saying is collecting the 30 year coin is a rarity but plenty have had multiple 10 year ones in the same time.

The only cure for alcoholism is abstaining from using it.

Therefore, again, alcohol is not a disease.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The going with percentages over individuals thing is pretty sad. Let's say that you're right that 95% of people who get drunk once will continue to do so. They won't change. They're alcoholics.

How does that explain you preemptively treating the remaing 5% as if they're the same?


Like I said, I don't drink. I also don't believe in broad brush condemnations.

 

[Brad Johnson]

My StepDad was an alcoholic. Spent a little time in Al-Anon.

First don't buy into the crap that alcoholism is a "disease"! NO!!

A disease by definition can be cured and you go back to normal. There is no cure, a cure would allow you to then drink again without the inherent problems. Clearly, that does not happen.

Once you are an alcoholic, you are ALWAYS an alcoholic.

I have known more than a few alcoholics, I tend to keep them at arm's length in my life. That being said, I cut anyone slack who has entered recovery. By "slack" I mean that over a say several decades, I expect that on occasion the person will slip into the old habit. My observation show me that the more years they are in recovery, the quicker they get back on the wagon and in the program.

What I'm saying is collecting the 30 year coin is a rarity but plenty have had multiple 10 year ones in the same time.

The only cure for alcoholism is abstaining from using it.

Therefore, again, alcohol is not a disease.

So... there are no incurable diseases? Got it.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

So... there are no incurable diseases? Got it.

Tell me the alcoholic that can now drink WITHOUT the problems, and I'll agree they are cured.

The cure involves NOT using alcohol for life.

Still not a cure.

Things can be cured and have been, just not alcoholism......yet.

Thanks for your open mind.

 

[gln1955]

My StepDad was an alcoholic. Spent a little time in Al-Anon.

First don't buy into the crap that alcoholism is a "disease"! NO!!

A disease by definition can be cured and you go back to normal. There is no cure, a cure would allow you to then drink again without the inherent problems. Clearly, that does not happen.

Once you are an alcoholic, you are ALWAYS an alcoholic.

I have known more than a few alcoholics, I tend to keep them at arm's length in my life. That being said, I cut anyone slack who has entered recovery. By "slack" I mean that over a say several decades, I expect that on occasion the person will slip into the old habit. My observation show me that the more years they are in recovery, the quicker they get back on the wagon and in the program.

What I'm saying is collecting the 30 year coin is a rarity but plenty have had multiple 10 year ones in the same time.

The only cure for alcoholism is abstaining from using it.

Therefore, again, alcohol is not a disease.

The majority of diseases are not cured, they're managed. Some alcoholics manage their condition for variable lengths of time (hopefully for good) by not drinking. Others won't or can't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Tell me the alcoholic that can now drink WITHOUT the problems, and I'll agree they are cured.

The cure involves NOT using alcohol for life.

Still not a cure.

Things can be cured and have been, just not alcoholism......yet.

Thanks for your open mind.

Thanks for ducking my simple question. I fully expected it.