Venting - LS can't handle playing in a bar that serves shots.

[lfmn16]

I'd just sit him down and tell him that next time it happens he's out. No excuses, crying, or rationalizations. I don't play with drunks.

 

[Eilif]

Great balanced response Murph, thanks... So far, he's oblivious... I'm not confident that he will twig on what he did...

Regarding the 'prepared to walk' thing, I'm not 'ready to walk', but am prepared to do so if need be... There are some other dynamics at play as well, that are less serious than this incident... Bottom line, I want to do whatever I can to resolve this so that it doesn't happen again, without generating ill will. Not an easy task, in this instance, I fear.

I'm hoping that bringing up the point that we don't have a band policy around drinking at gigs and that we should establish some ground rules, will shine some light on the issue without putting a spotlight on LS...

I'm not sure beating around the bush is going to really address the issue. It's not out of line to get the entire group together and say "the third set was a mess because LS was drunk, I will not be party to this".

Even if LS doesn't fess up, it will put him on notice that everyone knows what happened. Additionally LS needs to know this ahead of time so he can address it ahead of time with his wanker family member (every family has one) who feels the need to express how cool they are by demanding that everyone do shots.

All this to say, it may seem like a one-off, but unless he is spectacularly self aware and has thought through the situation on his own (in which case he'll come to you and fess up first) if you don't address it specifically it will happen again.

Good luck as you thread this needle. Here's to hoping he takes responsibility for his actions and straighten's up.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

It's all been said I'm sure since you're 6 pages in, but for me it's a "i'm out" situation.

I'd gracefully look elsewhere. The willpower for him to stop will come when the "important" people in his life like a spouse or sibling step in and help, band mates opinions seldom have the importance.

Best of luck.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I mean you asked, so: the only situations I can imagine paying to see old guys playing covers at a dive bar are if 1) I knew them, in which case it wouldn't really matter how well they performed, or 2) it was a total lark, in which case it wouldn't really matter how well they performed, but I might actually remember them and tell my friends about it if there was someone stumbling around ranting drunkenly on stage.

Like I said, you asked.

You misread my post. Age is irrelevant, venue is irrelevant, type of music is irrelevant, your personal tastes are unimportant (so are mine - I wouldn't pay a dime to see Ed Sheeran, Tàylor Swift, or Beyonce and Jay-Z, who are the three biggest tours of 2018). A performance is a performance. If they were getting paid to play there, there is no excuse for playing impaired. Even if they weren't getting paid, there is no excuse.

FWIW, the venue owner was charging a $10 cover.

I've been playing for about 35 years, from little bars to larger theaters, originals and covers, in all genres of music. Twice people were impaired. Those were the last time I played with them.

 

[Jim Nazium]

Can you post videos? I want to see for myself

 

[tlite]

You don't have to sugar coat. In fact being too polite might just tick him off.

Don't know how you guys talk to each other but with good friends and most co-workers direct is good. Humor is fine but get the message across.

"You were a friggin mess at the gig. No more shots for you until you have nothing left to sing or I will personally smack you (and your family if need be) upside the head with the microphone."

tell him during the gig in the event it looks like it's happening again.

He'll get it. And absolutely no need for a Very Special Episode intervention after one night like this. That would make things unnecessarily weird and stupid and would not be productive.

 

[wmhill]

The problem is the singer, not the venue.

 

[Steve Dallman]

I was a supervisor in a manufacturing plant for 30 years. When we had a problem, my first action was to stop the problem, next, make sure it didn't happen again, and then, if necessary, take disciplinary action. I rarely got to the disciplinary part. My goal was a smooth running plant without these problems. I would adress the problem objectively and done right, end up with a better employee, and not a bitter one, embarrassed and resentful.

I see this similarly. The problem is his alcohol use ruined a paying gig. The immediate problem is over...he sobered up. Now, how to make sure it doesn't happen again. Can you openly speak to him about the ruined gig without sounding like you're attacking him. If he feels attacked, he will be defensive and blame everything but his alcohol use. He will heap excuse on excuse.

I don't know him, so I can't come up with exactly how to deal with him. He has to know, the band has a problem and he, as part of the band, has to help come up with a solution.

FWIW, I used to drink at least a case of beer at gigs. I was that guy. I did it for 12 years. I quit drinking in 83. Besides getting a DUI, I found out that our drummer would get so pissed off at me for being too drunk at a gig, and instead of confronting me, he'd go home and beat his girlfriend. I quit drinking and she was never hit again.

I enjoyed playing and did a far better job after I quit drinking. There was no downside to quitting.

 

[JohnnyBottom]

If he is an Alcoholic and you take the alcohol away from AlcoholIC your stuck with an IC.
Unless he admits his problem and gets proper help he will be irritable and discontent and probably an ass.
Has he heard... 'I would just rather you drink!" from his family
Reality is he doesnt have a drinking problem he has sober problem. nough said.

 

[fhm555]

So y'all are all over 50, in a hobby band, and this guy screwed up and got drunk. You mentioned family was there apparently encouraging the shots that are the crux of this particular biscuit. Did it occur to you there may well have been some kind of family dynamic involved? By your account this was the first time it's happened, was it the first time that particular group of family came out to see you play? I'm lucky enough to not have any traumatic events or deeply negative emotions attached to any family members so i can't speak from personal experience but i know enough people who have serious family issues to know it can turn an otherwise mild mannered Jeykll into a raging Hyde just by being in close physical proximity to certain family members. Or maybe they just found out a loved one is terminally ill. If he has yet to throw himself on the mercy of the court perhaps it is embarrassment and/or shame holding him back.
Point being, was this proof of a pattern of behavior or is it an anomaly from an otherwise reliable individual?
If this is truly the first time they've exhibited this behavior, perhaps giving them the benefit of the doubt before reading the riot act might be in order. A reprimand is called for, but does it rise to the level of a formal dressing down? Your reaction sounds like it would be appropriate if this were an established pattern of behavior and yes i appreciate you are all old enough to know better, but hopefully you appreciate we are all human and perfection is not one of our strong suits. You made no mention of how the other band members felt about the situation so there is also that to consider.
I guess what it really comes down to, at least for me, is this a friend who may need your help and support, or is it just a fellow employee who embarrassed you to the point you are no longer interested in continuing your hobby band working relationship?
Maybe instead of going in with threats and recrimination, you might just pick up the phone and ask this individual what the cluck happened the other night, then shut up and let them explain themselves. You are owed that and what was said would go a long way toward how i'd go from there. If they are flip or dismissive of their behavior, put them on notice it won't be tolerated, if they are reticent and repentant, maybe a stern, but friendly warning would be in order. Either way, you now have grounds for the full on riot act should it happen again, although that riot act should be along the lines of "unless and until you get help with your problem you are out." Follow that up with an offer to take them to an AA meeting if you are a friend, or suggest they seek one out if it's just a fellow employee problem.
now if you already had a replacement lined up before this happened, this would be the ideal justification to bring them in, so there is that.
please understand, i'm not in the judgement business so this is certainly not a judgement of you or your lead singer. It is strictly personal opinion based on past personal experience.

 

[ZAR14]

Sounds like this is the first time that the LS acted in such a manner and your ready to throw in the towel on him.
I could understand if this was reoccurring behavior...But one time?

 

[filwitheneff]

So, one of the bands I'm in is made of up older guys, two of which are in the health care industry (so are all about taking care of their bodies) and the other three of us are retired. I'm the youngest, at 56. Needless to say, we've all experienced enough of life that I thought we all would be mature enough to know that when we are gigging, we are working, and keeping your alcohol consumption at a manageable level is required. We have played at other venues where this has never been a noticeable issue.

Apparently I was mistaken.

We had a gig last Saturday at a small bar, which can comfortably seat about 80 people. I had previously booked a gig with my other band that went well, so I booked a gig for this band, expecting things to be even better, since the musicianship in this one is of a higher calibre.

LS has a table of family members at the gig. First set went off well. A little bit of weirdness where the LS called some audibles to the set list, but, if his voice can't handle a song that night, then that's cool, nothing we haven't done several times in the past. But, the way he was acting seemed a bit strange...

Second set is getting a bit loose. Unbeknownst to me at the time, LS's family table is starting into the shots. In hindsight, he has probably partaken before the start of the second set. He's rambling into the mic, getting in my face when I'm trying to focus on my playing, missing his queues, etc... I am getting a bit frustrated, but oh well, things are still basically OK. After the second set, the bar owner gave us the max bonus for the night, since we essentially sold out the place. Everybody's happy.

Second break sees the shots come fast and furious. One of LS's family members is INSISTING on EVERYONE at their table having shots.

LS obliges.

Third set is a bit of a trainwreck. LS is stumbling around on stage, slurring his words, making incoherent statements into the mic, totally f'ing up his lines and missing his queues all over the place. He now thinks that he's the star of the show and everyone in the room is there solely to see him, and we are just supporting his wanking. To top it off, his drunk wife yells out that she wants to hear the song that he didn't want to sing in the first set, so of course now he wants to do it. We shut that down quick, thankfully. All of this has the LG and I (just one guitar and me on bass, plus drummer and keys) trying to compensate, sometimes more successfully than others. I thought I had my frustration in check, but I was gobsmacked by his behaviour. What are we, 19 year olds? I spend the rest of the set just trying to hang on, stay focused and get through it. We hit midnight, our time commitment for playing, and I was off the stage as soon I could. Managed to hold my tongue that night, since telling a drunk guy that he's drunk rarely ends well.

So far, this situation is a one off. Up until now we have just played venues where only beer / wine were served. Seems that LS needs to stay away from venues that serve hard liquor. It may be the charitable thing to give him another chance, but I really didn't like having to compensate for his unprofessionalism. In my books, if you can't tow your own weight, then I'm not going to carry you... Will be making a general statement at some point about the fact that we need to treat gigs like work, and not cross the line with alcohol consumption.

Not sure how to word it so that LS doesn't get his back up. Will word it so that it's in keeping with my signature here, but also want to make sure the message gets through...

How would you all handle it? Or, how have you handled similar situations in the past?

grr... senior citizens acting like teenagers... WTAF?!?

I cannot count the number of times I've had to deal with this exact scenario. In a prior band of mine, 9 gigs out of 10, the LS would drink too much, ramble nonsense in the mic between songs, forget the words, forget when to come in, and his singing became flatter and flatter as the night progressed. I put up with it for quite awhile (old friends), but eventually I left the band. It wasn't the only reason I left that band, but it was a major factor.

For me, I play music for the musical satisfaction. I like playing my parts well, and I love it when all the parts fall together perfectly. But that LS treated every gig like it was his weekend-release. He just liked going to a bar, drinking for free, and being the center of attention. He put no effort into improving himself as a singer, and it was obvious that he never practiced (it showed). There were nights when he would come up to me after the gig and tell me how awesome of a gig we just had, while I was simultaneously thinking about how shameful of a gig we just had.

 

[JMacBass65]

I'm trying to reconcile the often stated position "you had a job to do, and you don't get drunk on the job" with...........the entire history of Rock and Roll.

Just sayin'.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Time for a band meeting and ultimatum.

 

[waveman]

So y'all are all over 50, in a hobby band, and this guy screwed up and got drunk. You mentioned family was there apparently encouraging the shots that are the crux of this particular biscuit. Did it occur to you there may well have been some kind of family dynamic involved? By your account this was the first time it's happened, was it the first time that particular group of family came out to see you play? I'm lucky enough to not have any traumatic events or deeply negative emotions attached to any family members so i can't speak from personal experience but i know enough people who have serious family issues to know it can turn an otherwise mild mannered Jeykll into a raging Hyde just by being in close physical proximity to certain family members. Or maybe they just found out a loved one is terminally ill. If he has yet to throw himself on the mercy of the court perhaps it is embarrassment and/or shame holding him back.
Point being, was this proof of a pattern of behavior or is it an anomaly from an otherwise reliable individual?
If this is truly the first time they've exhibited this behavior, perhaps giving them the benefit of the doubt before reading the riot act might be in order. A reprimand is called for, but does it rise to the level of a formal dressing down? Your reaction sounds like it would be appropriate if this were an established pattern of behavior and yes i appreciate you are all old enough to know better, but hopefully you appreciate we are all human and perfection is not one of our strong suits. You made no mention of how the other band members felt about the situation so there is also that to consider.
I guess what it really comes down to, at least for me, is this a friend who may need your help and support, or is it just a fellow employee who embarrassed you to the point you are no longer interested in continuing your hobby band working relationship?
Maybe instead of going in with threats and recrimination, you might just pick up the phone and ask this individual what the cluck happened the other night, then shut up and let them explain themselves. You are owed that and what was said would go a long way toward how i'd go from there. If they are flip or dismissive of their behavior, put them on notice it won't be tolerated, if they are reticent and repentant, maybe a stern, but friendly warning would be in order. Either way, you now have grounds for the full on riot act should it happen again, although that riot act should be along the lines of "unless and until you get help with your problem you are out." Follow that up with an offer to take them to an AA meeting if you are a friend, or suggest they seek one out if it's just a fellow employee problem.
now if you already had a replacement lined up before this happened, this would be the ideal justification to bring them in, so there is that.
please understand, i'm not in the judgement business so this is certainly not a judgement of you or your lead singer. It is strictly personal opinion based on past personal experience.

Yeah mostly this... Some families have that party dynamic, and this went a little overboard. I would certainly address it, but don't be so harsh. Kinda like say "Hey man you guys got a little drunk last gig, and we sounded kinda sloppy toward the end. We need to try to not get like that, or we won't get booked too many more times". The guy had a little too much fun, and I'd give another chance or two before getting to serious about it.

 

[frankie5string]

You know, if you're the youngest and you're 56, and he got smashed from shots, that's REALLY going to hurt the next morning.

Hopefully his shot-hangover will teach him not to do that again. I find it generally does.

 

[gln1955]

The OP updates indicate the LS is in complete denial of a problem at the gig or he is not willing to own his behavior. This has to be directly addressed by the band. This can be done in a positive supporting way, but beating around the bush, or just hoping this was a one time thing, is going down the wrong path, IMO.

 

[Sixgunn]

View attachment 3571648
Zero tolerance. Unfortunately have encountered and dealt with this before and, in my experience, the only way is to say flat out that it's unacceptable and must immediately stop. Doesn't have to be a confrontation but should be peremptory.

Yep. We tried that with a previous guitarist. He repented and proceeded to not change. His ad as a guitarist looking for a band has been on CL for a few months, now.

 

[rtslinger]

I have been down this road as well.
A bunch of our LS buddy's came out and got him wreaked.
I basically total him that I understand when your friends are in the house they want to include you in the party, but you need to remember you are hired to do a job, and the owner is opening his wallet and is trusting you to deliver.
We have a reputation as professional and I expect you and anyone else in this band to maintain it when we are performing. He apologized and it hasn't been an issue since. RTS

 

[br1qbat]

I was a supervisor in a manufacturing plant for 30 years. When we had a problem, my first action was to stop the problem, next, make sure it didn't happen again, and then, if necessary, take disciplinary action. I rarely got to the disciplinary part. My goal was a smooth running plant without these problems. I would adress the problem objectively and done right, end up with a better employee, and not a bitter one, embarrassed and resentful.

I see this similarly. The problem is his alcohol use ruined a paying gig. The immediate problem is over...he sobered up. Now, how to make sure it doesn't happen again. Can you openly speak to him about the ruined gig without sounding like you're attacking him. If he feels attacked, he will be defensive and blame everything but his alcohol use. He will heap excuse on excuse.

I don't know him, so I can't come up with exactly how to deal with him. He has to know, the band has a problem and he, as part of the band, has to help come up with a solution.

FWIW, I used to drink at least a case of beer at gigs. I was that guy. I did it for 12 years. I quit drinking in 83. Besides getting a DUI, I found out that our drummer would get so pissed off at me for being too drunk at a gig, and instead of confronting me, he'd go home and beat his girlfriend. I quit drinking and she was never hit again.

I enjoyed playing and did a far better job after I quit drinking. There was no downside to quitting.

Uh, the drummer is a shietbag for hitting his SO, no matter what his excuse was. That's not 'on' anyone's but his own shoulders. Just like your drinking issue was your problem. Couldn't let this slip by without pointing that out.

As for the topic at-hand, since LS has not fessed up, I would def bring it up. Doesn't have to be a terse thing. Just tell him, "Man you were really fornicated up by set 3 and kinda staggering around. Maybe your family needs to stop with the shots. Lol" and see what he says. If he still denies it, then tell him "Really, it was embarrassing. Don't go that overboard again buddy. I don't play with sloppy drunks." Otherwise, hopefully he'll just apologize and think twice about downing shots at a gig again.

I'd give him a mulligan, personally. A bunch of drunk family/friends can override one's sense. Sounds like he hasn't had prior issues drink-wise in the band.