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Venting - LS can't handle playing in a bar that serves shots.

I'm trying to reconcile the often stated position "you had a job to do, and you don't get drunk on the job" with...........the entire history of Rock and Roll.

Just sayin'.

Yeah, I hear you, but I'm past that... Not saying he can't drink. I don't like telling people what to do. (That's part of why I haven't said anything to the band yet.) Just know where your line is and make sure you are still able to perform. Sort of like the internal check that is done to ensure that you're still safe to drive before you order another drink. The problem with last Saturday was the family member cajoling him into doing shots. Once that happens, all bets are off... That's why I have a personal policy at gigs where I only drink light beer and only have 3. One while we're setting up, and one at each break, since we usually do 3 sets. When I'm onstage, I really prefer ice water. But, that's just me...
 
I know this will be an unpopular post, but given that you're all just a bunch of old guys doing this for fun, for peanuts, to nobody, maybe just let it go and let the guy have fun when his friends are in the audience.

Maybe have a few yourself if that'll help you get over it.
I agree with you 100%..................this will be an unpopular post
 
The problem is not whether the family was there, or whether or not the bar serves hard liquor, or the moon is full, or the audience was wearing purple Spandex..
The guy is an alcoholic. You can't set rules to fix it. He is a long way from trying to get sober. There is NOTHING that YOU can do to fix that. Time to find another band.
I am a recovering alcoholic. I know what I'm talking about.
 
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Age is irrelevant, venue is irrelevant, type of music is irrelevant, your personal tastes are unimportant... A performance is a performance. If they were getting paid to play there, there is no excuse for playing impaired. Even if they weren't getting paid, there is no excuse.

Very much agree with this statement, if there is money on the table from either or both ends (attendees and/or owner) then you show up, play right and remain unimpaired.
If you can't handle that, then play for free on Tuesday evening at the bar no one cares about where no one will be there to see if you're drunk.

I have zero problems with a couple of drinks during an evening of music, but I'd rather play with teetotalers than with folks who may-or-may-not be able to control their intake.
 
We are having a slack chat in parallel to me posting on this thread. So far he seems oblivious...
His first slack post after the gig:
"Hey guys great show last night !
Everyone had a lot a lot of fun
Kudos to you guys for making my job easy !! Y’all sounded great !"

I posted this, to try and solicit more information:
"So, are there any takeaways from the gig on what we can do better? ... and also what went well."

EDIT: He responded to my query... Yeah, he's oblivious....
I call B.S. He's not oblivious, he's putting a smiley face on behavior he's either ashamed of or can't remember.
 
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There are some people for whom music is the only party they get to have, and when presented with the opportunity to party hard, they will. I deal with someone like this but generally he will only cross a line at rehearsals, and then only sometimes. I think if this happened at a show it would happen only once and there would be a discussion. I am not big on telling people how they should behave. What I tend to do is say what I'm willing to tolerate and that if that line is crossed I will walk. Then it's really up to that person to decide if they want to continue down that road, but it won't be my problem anymore.
In the LS's case, I think he has plenty of opportunity to party. Our rehearsals are dry, so he's ok there.
I'm with you. I don't like telling people what to do. If he continues down this path, I won't try to change him, I will just do what I have control over. That's why setting a band policy on impairment at gigs is important...
 
I know this will be an unpopular post, but given that you're all just a bunch of old guys doing this for fun, for peanuts, to nobody, maybe just let it go and let the guy have fun when his friends are in the audience.

Maybe have a few yourself if that'll help you get over it.

Maybe we have a different financial perspective but "$164 minus my bar tab" doesn't seem like peanuts to me. My flat fee for my weekly country/rock gig -which I am very happy with- is significantly less than that, even with a couple free drinks figured in.

Not that money is everything, but regardless of age or venue, it sounds to me like we're discussing a real gig with real money.
 
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Zero tolerance. Unfortunately have encountered and dealt with this before and, in my experience, the only way is to say flat out that it's unacceptable and must immediately stop. Doesn't have to be a confrontation but should be peremptory.

Exactly - 1st and last warning. No long sit down , no wringing of hands. 1 minute - if you ever get stinko at a gig again and impair your playing - I am gone.
 
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I'm glad so many people in this thread live perfectly perfect lives and can sit in such judgment of someone they don't know from Adam. You are the most awesome people on earth, and I'm sure none of you ever made a mistake in your lives ever. Congratulations.

Has nothing to do with being perfect. What would happen to you if you showed up at a gig so drunk you were incoherent, and people had to pick up a bass to try bass to get the band through the gig? I imagine you would lose the job, and not get any other gigs related to the project. If any of us weekend warriors showed up at work that drunk, we would be out on the streets immediately.

While I don't drink while playing, I know some people do. But falling down, incoherent drunk? There is never an excuse for that.
 
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So y’all are all over 50, in a hobby band, and this guy screwed up and got drunk. You mentioned family was there apparently encouraging the shots that are the crux of this particular biscuit. Did it occur to you there may well have been some kind of family dynamic involved? By your account this was the first time it’s happened, was it the first time that particular group of family came out to see you play? I’m lucky enough to not have any traumatic events or deeply negative emotions attached to any family members so i can’t speak from personal experience but i know enough people who have serious family issues to know it can turn an otherwise mild mannered Jeykll into a raging Hyde just by being in close physical proximity to certain family members. Or maybe they just found out a loved one is terminally ill. If he has yet to throw himself on the mercy of the court perhaps it is embarrassment and/or shame holding him back.
Point being, was this proof of a pattern of behavior or is it an anomaly from an otherwise reliable individual?
If this is truly the first time they’ve exhibited this behavior, perhaps giving them the benefit of the doubt before reading the riot act might be in order. A reprimand is called for, but does it rise to the level of a formal dressing down? Your reaction sounds like it would be appropriate if this were an established pattern of behavior and yes i appreciate you are all old enough to know better, but hopefully you appreciate we are all human and perfection is not one of our strong suits. You made no mention of how the other band members felt about the situation so there is also that to consider.
I guess what it really comes down to, at least for me, is this a friend who may need your help and support, or is it just a fellow employee who embarrassed you to the point you are no longer interested in continuing your hobby band working relationship?
Maybe instead of going in with threats and recrimination, you might just pick up the phone and ask this individual what the cluck happened the other night, then shut up and let them explain themselves. You are owed that and what was said would go a long way toward how i’d go from there. If they are flip or dismissive of their behavior, put them on notice it won’t be tolerated, if they are reticent and repentant, maybe a stern, but friendly warning would be in order. Either way, you now have grounds for the full on riot act should it happen again, although that riot act should be along the lines of “unless and until you get help with your problem you are out.” Follow that up with an offer to take them to an AA meeting if you are a friend, or suggest they seek one out if it’s just a fellow employee problem.
now if you already had a replacement lined up before this happened, this would be the ideal justification to bring them in, so there is that.
please understand, i’m not in the judgement business so this is certainly not a judgement of you or your lead singer. It is strictly personal opinion based on past personal experience.

Believe me, I have had my share of alcohol related mistakes, as have most folks that are 50+. I know that the LS has too, so we all understand that aspect of it. I also know from personal experience that family dynamics and recent traumatic events can send otherwise balanced folks for a loop. This is why I haven't said anything to my bandmates yet, and when I do say anything, it will be about setting a general band policy and not pointing fingers. I never said I would go in with threats and recrimination. That is totally not my style. Some of my Venting in the OP could be misconstrued that way, but I also said in my OP:
Not sure how to word it so that LS doesn't get his back up. Will word it so that it's in keeping with my signature here, but also want to make sure the message gets through...
 
Hence my comment about the horrible day-after hangover the singer likely had. He probably really regrets his choices that night.

I'm glad you said this, though.

I've never been drunk at a gig, but I've definitely not been perfect in my life, so far.

I'm glad so many people in this thread live perfectly perfect lives and can sit in such judgment of someone they don't know from Adam. You are the most awesome people on earth, and I'm sure none of you ever made a mistake in your lives ever. Congratulations.
 
Believe me, I have had my share of alcohol related mistakes, as have most folks that are 50+. I know that the LS has too, so we all understand that aspect of it. I also know from personal experience that family dynamics and recent traumatic events can send otherwise balanced folks for a loop. This is why I haven't said anything to my bandmates yet, and when I do say anything, it will be about setting a general band policy and not pointing fingers. I never said I would go in with threats and recrimination. That is totally not my style. Some of my Venting in the OP could be misconstrued that way, but I also said in my OP:
No need to defend yourself. It was my misinterpretation of your post that prompted my reply. Best of luck and i hope it works out well for everyone.
 
I know this will be an unpopular post, but given that you're all just a bunch of old guys doing this for fun, for peanuts, to nobody, maybe just let it go and let the guy have fun when his friends are in the audience.

Maybe have a few yourself if that'll help you get over it.


Drinking is not "fun" for some. Largely we go out to have fun by playing and that requires laser sharp timing, and if someone's idea of fun is to crap all over the music.... As a bunch of older guys - the drunk already knows this because drinkers have caused turmoil for lots of people - personally he gets one chance - Drunks are selfish narcissists - I would not accommodate someone making my life miserable, taking the fun out what I love most. In the past I have and made myself miserable, never again.

Playing or drinking - drinking cannot supplant the playing....
 
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Has nothing to do with being perfect. What would happen to you if you showed up at a gig so drunk you were incoherent, and people had to pick up a bass to try bass to get the band through the gig? I imagine you would lose the job, and not get any other gigs related to the project. If any of us weekend warriors showed up at work that drunk, we would be out on the streets immediately.

While I don't drink while playing, I know some people do. But falling down, incoherent drunk? There is never an excuse for that.
If it only happened once, I'd probably be OK. But since I don't drink, the likelihood is way low of that ever happening. Still, I think it's stupid to harangue this guy and make him out to be some raging alcoholic when in fact he's just a dude who went a little too far one night.
 
This is a terrible observation. Engaging in shots with family does not make one an alcoholic. A lapse in judgement, certainly. But not anything worthy of a diagnostic like that.

You really shouldn't assign clinical diagnoses to others on an online forum.

The problem is not whether the family was there, or whether or not the bar serves hard liquor, or the moon is full, or the audience was wearing purple Spandex..
The guy is an alcoholic. You can't set rules to fix it. He is a long way from trying to get sober. There is NOTHING that YOU can do to fix that. Time to find another band.
I am a recovering alcoholic. I know what I'm talking about.