Venting - LS can't handle playing in a bar that serves shots.

[JimmyM]

I never said he was a raging alcoholic. But I'm a lawyer. It's a pretty safe bet if I showed up in court or a deposition that drunk, they wouldn't call it "just a dude who went too far".

I know plenty of lawyers who enjoy their three martini lunches. Besides, your day starts at 8 or 9 am. Even the most raging alcoholics I know won't start on it that early.

 

[7615]

Agreed, which is why I'm not going to limit myself based on his shortcomings. If he does it again, I think I'm out... Just need to figure out how to communicate this in a positive, but effective, manner.

Make it about the music and your enjoyment. I asked a drunk once - what do you love more - alcohol or music. Alcoholism is easy but musicianship is rewarding. Make a choice as I love music but if gigs are about drunken partying I'm not your guy.

These days, everybody's got a video recorder in their pocket. You should have recorded the egregious performance and played it back for him later, just to let him see how terrible he was when drunk.

If he's not an alcoholic, and has an ounce of pride in what he's doing, that probably would have been enough to ensure no hijinks in the future.

that's a good idea. Years back a good friend in a spiral was shown an evening of them drinking - they quit - permanently.

 

[JimmyM]

The city I went to school in distinguished between restaurant and bar licenses based on percentage of revenue coming from liquor, but I think you could still sell hard liquor in a restaurant. At any rate, I'm sure there are states/localities in the US that have an arrangement like you describe, I've just never been to one

Beer/wine joints are all over Florida because they don't want to pay for a full liquor license or can't get one because they limit the amount of people who can get one per year.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

...Going forward, we will have to clarify band policy regarding alcohol consumption at gigs.

I believe that's the best way to phrase it, so it seems unilateral and not as confrontational. As far as the lack of professionalism and intoxication, it's a scenario I've heard and experienced many times before.

 

[lat]

I agree, until they start throwing chairs and disturbing other customers. Ask me how I know.

How do you know?

*ducks and runs...*

 

[RodneyM]

I'm sorry if it's been said before (I haven't read all the posts).
But OUR JOB as musicians in a bar/club that serves alcohol, is to be LIQUOR SALESMEN.
That's the reality.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I know plenty of lawyers who enjoy their three martini lunches. Besides, your day starts at 8 or 9 am. Even the most raging alcoholics I know won't start on it that early.

I certainly hope you aren't using lawyer who aren't working while that drunk. I enjoy a drink as well, but I can safely say I've never been drunk while doing any job.

 

[MobileHolmes]

Beer/wine joints are all over Florida because they don't want to pay for a full liquor license or can't get one because they limit the amount of people who can get one per year.

Living in the midwest, we don't have much to do besides drink I guess

 

[callofcthulhu]

You misread my post. Age is irrelevant, venue is irrelevant, type of music is irrelevant, your personal tastes are unimportant (so are mine - I wouldn't pay a dime to see Ed Sheeran, Tàylor Swift, or Beyonce and Jay-Z, who are the three biggest tours of 2018). A performance is a performance. If they were getting paid to play there, there is no excuse for playing impaired. Even if they weren't getting paid, there is no excuse.

FWIW, the venue owner was charging a $10 cover.

I've been playing for about 35 years, from little bars to larger theaters, originals and covers, in all genres of music. Twice people were impaired. Those were the last time I played with them.

Except those things aren't really irrelevant are they?

If I'm paying $200+ per ticket (or however much the "good" seats are at one of those artists' shows you mentioned) my expectations for what I'm going to get at that show are completely different from the expectations I have than I have for the show I payed $10 to get into.

I get it, you're a professional, you have standards, and you hold yourself and anyone you're associated with to those standards, bring your a-game every time, it's a slippery slope if you start telling yourself "this gig doesn't matter", etc. etc.

I just think a healthy dose of perspective is in order. Standards are meaningless if they're not grounded in reality. We're all only human, we're all only here once, and none of us have as much time as we wish we had Why waste what little you have being upset about something that by all metrics of success met or exceeded expectations, aside from the abstract ones in your head?

 

[lat]

Except those things aren't really irrelevant are they?

If I'm paying $200+ per ticket (or however much the "good" seats are at one of those artists' shows you mentioned) my expectations for what I'm going to get at that show are completely different from the expectations I have than I have for the show I payed $10 to get into.

I get it, you're a professional, you have standards, and you hold yourself and anyone you're associated with to those standards, bring your a-game every time, it's a slippery slope if you start telling yourself "this gig doesn't matter", etc. etc.

I just think a healthy dose of perspective is in order. Standards are meaningless if they're not grounded in reality. We're all only human, we're all only here once, and none of us have as long as we think we do. Why waste it being upset about something that by all metrics of success met or exceeded expectations, aside from the abstract ones in your head?

umm... all expectation are abstract ones in your head...

 

[callofcthulhu]

umm... all expectation are abstract ones in your head...

An audience having a good time, getting paid more than you expected, and getting asked to come back are abstract and in your head?

I mean we can take the solipsistic route if you want, but I think you'll only find more reasons why you should let it go down that rabbit hole.

 

[J-Mags]

I know plenty of lawyers who enjoy their three martini lunches. Besides, your day starts at 8 or 9 am. Even the most raging alcoholics I know won't start on it that early.

I'm a lawyer. Never had a drink at work. Never had a drink doing anything but music and market research polling. Don't regret the market research drinking one bit. The music on the other hand... I was the kind of drinker who seldom seemed drunk, but it didn't stop me from playing crappy from time to time.

Banging out eight notes for a punk band at 52, you gotta be straight edge or you'll start lagging or missing transitions. Your reflexes aren't what they were at 20.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Except those things aren't really irrelevant are they?

If I'm paying $200+ per ticket (or however much the "good" seats are at one of those artists' shows you mentioned) my expectations for what I'm going to get at that show are completely different from the expectations I have than I have for the show I payed $10 to get into.

I get it, you're a professional, you have standards, and you hold yourself and anyone you're associated with to those standards, bring your a-game every time, it's a slippery slope if you start telling yourself "this gig doesn't matter", etc. etc.

I just think a healthy dose of perspective is in order. Standards are meaningless if they're not grounded in reality. We're all only human, we're all only here once, and none of us have as much time as we wish we had Why waste what little you have being upset about something that by all metrics of success met or exceeded expectations, aside from the abstract ones in your head?

Sorry. I know of no "reality" or "perspective" where being falling down drunk in public is in any way acceptable.

 

[lat]

An audience having a good time, getting paid more than you expected, and getting asked to come back are abstract and in your head?

I mean we can take the solipsistic route if you want, but I think you'll only find more reasons why you should let it go down that rabbit hole.

Yep... what is a good time? what is my expectation for pay based on? Was I expecting to be asked back or not? After the second set, yes, after the third set, not as much yes. That's all based on how I felt things went... which happened in my head...

 

[Queue]

I've been known to 'howl at the moon' from time to time, but not on stage. Besides, I have to drive home from gigs, and I have a zero tolerance policy on that. (I'll sleep in my ride before I drive drunk.)

@210superair Careful with that sleeping in your ride thing. In some jurisdictions, you can get charged just the same.

I think the LS was past the point of clear memory on the gig in question. I'd first sound out your band mates and see how they're recalling things. I don't know if this whole thing warrants a formal band meeting. If the rest of the band feels the same way as you do about the gig, then at least one of you should have a discussion with LS. I'd keep it informal, though, and tell him how you felt about his performance, especially how uncomfortable it made you feel. That way at least he knows. I think right now, this was his "best gig ever" in his own mind.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

I agree with you 100%..................this will be an unpopular post

I'm sort of surprised. I never realized that once we hit a certain age, there is no pressure to deliver a decent night of music without alcohol.

Does this rule apply to day jobs with regular emloyers or just a "musician" thing?

 

[bdplaid]

How do you know?

*ducks and runs...*

Hit by a beer can, right in the headstock, by a guy who didn't like my tuning up. Dodged many a fistfight, one involving over half the bar. It was like something out of a Popeye cartoon, huge mass of guys with fists and feet emerging from the ball, dust flying everywhere. It was a hoot! Yes all drunk.

Then there was the time a new band had opening night, lead singer brought his family, who got drunk, and his wife punched him so hard in front of the ladies room he flew backwards into it.

I have more. All alcohol-related.

 

[lat]

I'm sort of surprised. I never realized that once we hit a certain age, there is no pressure to deliver a decent night of music without alcohol.

Does this rule apply to day jobs with regular employers or just a "musician" thing?

If only... lol...

But, to be serious, if he drank as much or more than he did, but could still deliver the goods, I couldn't have cared less about his drinking...

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

If only... lol...

But, to be serious, if he drank as much or more than he did, but could still deliver the goods, I couldn't have cared less about his drinking...

Not for me.

I don't want to be the one who worries how he's getting home.

Those who disagree can say its not my problem, but I have a conscience and woukd hate if he killed someone in your family in a DUI.

 

[7615]

+1

This is a bar band were talking about for chrissakes - and bars love it when people order drinks. The singer gets drunk onstage once, and he's bent out of shape. Stuff happens in bar band land.
Sounds like the OP is better off playing the Ned Flanders circuit.

One of my former bands had a guitarist who used to be a lampshade-on-the-head type guy - and a pretty good entertainer. Then he quit drinking and started spouting all these slogans to everyone else in the band and he'd tell us that we should quit, too - we would roll our eyes at his sanctimony.

I find drunk players - are would be rock stars - not musicians. Finding complaints about drinking sanctimonious, telegraphs what some players think about music. Not much.

It isn't about, for me anyway, whether the crowd liked it (it is nice they do but not why I am there) it is about myself looking forward to go play music on weekend evenings because I so enjoy being in the moment, and music demands that of you. Ok a one time thing, but if anymore then it isn't Ned Flanders , it is the OP wanting to enjoy himself playing music and a selfish drunk putting his love of drink ahead of every musical colleague.

The OP has a right to expect the band maintains its ability to play music so he can enjoy himself playing music and it trumps any excuse for getting drunk and dragging the level of musicality into the crapper.

The band is together to play music - not to drink.