They'd have to pay me just to go camping for a weekend, much less have to endure sitting through a race.
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Venting: Potential big gig ends up being a freebie
- Thread starter FirewalZ
- Start date
madbass6
Inactive
- Jan 13, 2009
- 2,428
- 1,295
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awsome!Got contacted by a large Speedway/Racetrack, they need band(s) to play their campgrounds on Race weekends....Thurs-Sat nights. Seemed like a great gig, i love playing campgrounds on summer evenings.
Of course I said thanks but no thanks and ended it on a positive note, they seemed to understand and offered to keep our contact should something else pop up. However part of me was highly insulted and wanted to scream back at them....this is a very large venue/event/facility that is pulling in tons of ca$h on race weekends and you want us to play for free? I bet they didn't ask anyone else to work for no pay, why is it acceptable to ask musicians to work for free? Ill have to haul in a very large, heavy and expensive PA system that needs to be set up and take down each night, you want us to play for 3 hours, we are local and have no need or interest in free "camping", and any publicity would be nearly useless........
- Band supplies PA, needs to be powerful enough for a large outdoor campground
- You will need to setup and tear down each day.
- Band can camp and get into the race for free.
- Oh, and your compensation is the fact that we will promote your group and you get to camp for free?
Venting Over!
Good for you for not giving in !
if half the band leaders out there did sh*t like that,
maybe just maybe musicians will earn back the respect we deserve!
Just yesterday my sound company was offered $350 to supply sound, lights, teleprompters, and wireless mics for a three hour gig. I quoted them $3000 back (a very realistic figure), to see their counter offer. I was actually told to F off!
To most people the entire music industry is considered valueless.
To most people the entire music industry is considered valueless.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don't respect or take what we do as musicians seriously....
"What's your REAL job?" that question still pisses me off today and I've heard it all of my adult life.
I refuse to play, in public, for free.. I ask them if they know any caterers, waiters, or bartenders, that work for free and that usually gets my point across.
Every cause is a "worthy" cause to someone and practically every event that I've ever seen, that had "free" entertainment, has been a musical disaster.
If you give it away, what does that make you worth to the next guy you are trying to charge for your next gig?
Some churches will even try to "guilt" you into playing for free for the Lord. If they are hiring musicians, they need to pay you and leave the Lord out of it.
Occasionally, I will do a favor and play on a demo session, for free, to help a friend with the creative process. I liken it to poker night and hanging out with friends in the studio. No one is getting paid and I'm not taking work from anyone. But I do know, if something good happens with the tracks, I'll be taken care of on the back end.
Ultimately, it's about knowing your $$ worth and not being timid or ashamed to stand up for it. I've learned that people will remember you if they pay you and they will call you again. If you play for free, they won't.
"What's your REAL job?" that question still pisses me off today and I've heard it all of my adult life.
I refuse to play, in public, for free.. I ask them if they know any caterers, waiters, or bartenders, that work for free and that usually gets my point across.
Every cause is a "worthy" cause to someone and practically every event that I've ever seen, that had "free" entertainment, has been a musical disaster.
If you give it away, what does that make you worth to the next guy you are trying to charge for your next gig?
Some churches will even try to "guilt" you into playing for free for the Lord. If they are hiring musicians, they need to pay you and leave the Lord out of it.
Occasionally, I will do a favor and play on a demo session, for free, to help a friend with the creative process. I liken it to poker night and hanging out with friends in the studio. No one is getting paid and I'm not taking work from anyone. But I do know, if something good happens with the tracks, I'll be taken care of on the back end.
Ultimately, it's about knowing your $$ worth and not being timid or ashamed to stand up for it. I've learned that people will remember you if they pay you and they will call you again. If you play for free, they won't.
Typical. My first major race to attend (Winston Cup, at the time, in Atlanta) back in the '90s, I was taken aback to see "volunteers" working various parts of the track property. A nationally televised event, raking in squillions of $$$$, and making certain positions working the day volunteers.
Worse, some musicians are willing to PAY to play to get some exposure.
I'm a little skeptical about the idea some seem to have that they can get away with this because lots of musicians will agree to it.
I mean, in a way, *I'm* one of those willing musicians. I've got a day job, music is a hobby, I'll play for free or close to it, and money isn't really at the top of my list when I decide when and where to play.
But I wouldn't take this gig myself. I think I can play reasonably well, but I'm not at the level of most professionals when it comes to music, and definitely not when it comes to delivering a polished performance. I'm not going to buy and set up an bunch of expensive PA equipment. I'm more likely to bail if I'm sick, and I'm certainly not going to have some network of subs to fill in. Etc., etc. There's probably other stuff I'm not thinking of, because I've never really worked as a professional performer.
So even though I'm willing to play for free, I'd say "no" to that gig. Are there pros that would say "yes", or are most of the people that say "yes" just not thinking this through? Has the venue really thought this through?
I remember talking to a friend that performs, and he said he takes this kind of call as an opportunity to do a little education. Not getting into an argument with the client--he knows it's a long game, they may not even be capable of changing the budget this time around--but maybe trying to impress on them one or two ways that a professional can deliver that an amateur can't.
I mean, in a way, *I'm* one of those willing musicians. I've got a day job, music is a hobby, I'll play for free or close to it, and money isn't really at the top of my list when I decide when and where to play.
But I wouldn't take this gig myself. I think I can play reasonably well, but I'm not at the level of most professionals when it comes to music, and definitely not when it comes to delivering a polished performance. I'm not going to buy and set up an bunch of expensive PA equipment. I'm more likely to bail if I'm sick, and I'm certainly not going to have some network of subs to fill in. Etc., etc. There's probably other stuff I'm not thinking of, because I've never really worked as a professional performer.
So even though I'm willing to play for free, I'd say "no" to that gig. Are there pros that would say "yes", or are most of the people that say "yes" just not thinking this through? Has the venue really thought this through?
I remember talking to a friend that performs, and he said he takes this kind of call as an opportunity to do a little education. Not getting into an argument with the client--he knows it's a long game, they may not even be capable of changing the budget this time around--but maybe trying to impress on them one or two ways that a professional can deliver that an amateur can't.
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Thank Dog pay-to-play was tried briefly in and around Toronto, and failed. The scam here was that the house gets the first $200 of the door, band keeps the rest. If the band doesn't draw $200 worth, THEY OWE THE VENUE!
Talk about a suckers game, specially in a place that can have a blizzard at a moments notice.
As someone once said, "Forgive your enemies but don't forget their names."
PaulCISSA
Unsweetened, highly-caffeinated
Here's a recent story: I was at Daytona International Speedway in January for the IMSA/Rolex 24-Hour endurance race weekend Thursday-Sunday. Big $$$ everywhere - cars and motorhomes everywhere worth double-triple my entire families worth. Folks attending with more FU/walking-around money than I'll earn in a lifetime.
The infield spectator area had a great bandstand, covered, flying arrays, lighting and folks to run it. I was talking with the bassist from one group that was pretty good. They were playing 90 minute sets, 3-times a day 3 days. He was going home with $50.00 p/day and a complimentary jacket from the Speedway worth about $100. THAT's IT.
Its a shame in that regard, but they were a local act that played every cliche' cover in everyones catalog and not all that well. They were thrilled to be on the stage. I just don't understand. But, in the end - the venue gets what they pays for.
Well from experience I can tell you that everyone in that crowd of campers that was in the infield was drunk like noones business. They couldn't have told a good band from a bad one at that point. I live a little south of Daytona and I can also tell you, no way in he11 do I take that gig.
That said my band did do a set for free over the weekend. It is for a local bar that has given a bunch to my band and others and the community. They started doing a big fundraiser for 3 different local charities including one that supports local musicians that have fallen ill or on hard times. 9 bands over 11 hours and sound provided. This was the 6th year they've done it and I've done it 4 of them and will continue to do so. But an even like that is the only gig I would consider doing for free.
Or alternately, the band will play free but you'll be renting the PA at market rates and let's not look too closely at how much we're paying the roadies (who happen to be the band members). It comes out to...$2k/night.
I pay to race my car at the track. My local track has closed for good, as have many others. They build beautiful new tracks with nice facilities and a couple years later shut it down. Sucks.
PaulCISSA
Unsweetened, highly-caffeinated
The part I noticed was that "they need band(s)". Not just one band. So you'd be supplying the P.A. for others. And then you'd he having to maintain that the whole time.
Unpaid interns, automated kiosks in stores that make you onto an unpaid employee just to get a meal or groceries, and we're surprised that people want us to play for free? They've been getting everything else for free, (plenty of musician's principals allow for this when it's their cash) so why would they think a band is different? It's a mindset now.
