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Vintage 15" JBL comparisons w/soundclips
- Thread starter johnk_10
- Start date
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
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- John K Custom Basses
it looks like someone replaced them with paper caps to me.
i can get OEM JBL aluminum ones at cost, but dealer cost is $20 each! there are aftermarket ones that are about 1/8" larger in diameter and have a slightly longer lip on the edge that cost me only $7.50.
i can get OEM JBL aluminum ones at cost, but dealer cost is $20 each! there are aftermarket ones that are about 1/8" larger in diameter and have a slightly longer lip on the edge that cost me only $7.50.
Doug Parent said:Is it obvious that its a paper dust cover? thinking maybe someone sprayed black at some time? otherwise I'm guessing it's a recone. Post a pic and we all speculate for days on it.
Black dust covers were used in theater installations so they would be in "stealth" mode and the shiny dancing covers wouldn't distract the audience.
The ones I've seen are flat black aluminum though, not paper.
Hi:
I have a spare K140, and two D140F's in an old Fender bassman cabinet
What is a good cabinet to put the K140F in? I drool over the older JBL cabinets, put of course they are hard to find. I put this in a Bag End 15" cabinet once, not bad, but not at it's full potential
I have a spare K140, and two D140F's in an old Fender bassman cabinet
What is a good cabinet to put the K140F in? I drool over the older JBL cabinets, put of course they are hard to find. I put this in a Bag End 15" cabinet once, not bad, but not at it's full potential
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
i have a pair of K140's in three of my cabs, and a quad of them in my acoustic 408 cab. the cabs are all drastically different from each other, in size and porting, so i've found that they're pretty forgiving, since i love the way that all 4 of them sound.
...but if you want to do it by the book to get the most out of it, this might help:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
i'd also recommend running them in WinISD to get further test results.
the TS specs for most JBL's can be found here:
Invalid Link Removed
...but if you want to do it by the book to get the most out of it, this might help:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
i'd also recommend running them in WinISD to get further test results.
the TS specs for most JBL's can be found here:
Invalid Link Removed
That's been my experience as well, why do you suppose that is?
A lot of the more modern ones aren't quite so forgiving, w/notable exceptions of course
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
That's been my experience as well, why do you suppose that is?
i don't really know?
possibly because they don't have a huge x/max like alot of the new bass drivers of today. plus they have an extended frequency response ( i.e. go up higher than most 15's, then and now).
i do know that, IMO, three of the best sounding cabs for them is a single showman tone ring cab, the Sunn 200S 2x15 cab and the larger 2000S 2x15 cab.
thank you, that's very helpful. Someone else here posted they did a half Sunn cab for a K(?)140 and really like the results.
My understanding re tone rings is that you can more easily duplicate that sound w/a ported cab (BFM quote IIRC). Those tone rings can be a little weird to replicate.
That said, I'm also aware they're supposed to act like a Helmholtz resonator so that's not exactly like a ported/tuned cab (correct me if I'm wrong!), thus a perceived difference in tone. Heard a local bassist here not too long ago w/an Altec 421 in a rather large Helmholtz resonator cab powered by an early 80s GK400RB and it sounded superb
My understanding re tone rings is that you can more easily duplicate that sound w/a ported cab (BFM quote IIRC). Those tone rings can be a little weird to replicate.
That said, I'm also aware they're supposed to act like a Helmholtz resonator so that's not exactly like a ported/tuned cab (correct me if I'm wrong!), thus a perceived difference in tone. Heard a local bassist here not too long ago w/an Altec 421 in a rather large Helmholtz resonator cab powered by an early 80s GK400RB and it sounded superb
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
well, the tone ring cab is really just a 360 degree port around the speaker using a dual baffle, so i consider it a 'ported' cab, although quite a bit more complicated to build than the conventional shelf, rectangular, or round ones.
IMO, a K140 would probably also sound great in an EV TL606 cab after tuning the port to it. i've had a few TL606's in the past with EV 15L's in them, and they sounded great.
IMO, a K140 would probably also sound great in an EV TL606 cab after tuning the port to it. i've had a few TL606's in the past with EV 15L's in them, and they sounded great.
Hey John K, what's up?
On your recommendation, I have purchased a single JBL K 140.
Would it be impractical to attempt to describe how different cabs might yield different results with that killer 15 ?
I am torn between two tones- an extremely punchy ( Eden, Fender ) tone and a more woofy tone. I am old school, true, but I have been somewhat influenced by post Jaco ( Jaco my hero, is really new school, and actually used a radically unusual- much less bass - tone ) players.
Basically Duck Dunn, Jamerson are two killer fundamental, tube, old school sounds, and
The Jaco intensification of mids is the other - ( though I still think his choice - no accident- of an Acoustic 18", was a smart compensation for all his mid's emphasis). Basically a P bass ( Jamerson and Duck Dunn fundamental ) and a J bass emphasizing mids (Jaco, and Marcus ).
I am fantasizing that I would want 2 smallish to med cabs, one designed to 100% get "Jaco mids" and the other to get that fundamental type tone. Which cabs would cause the D140 to sound especially "fundamental" Motown city, and which cab would truncate some low end leaving the mids emphasized- roughly speaking- Jaco growl?
One line of thought is get a balanced sounding cab and use amp and fingers to create sound- of course this is true. But I still have a hunch that my "anti balanced cab" idea, where a basic cab "resonance" or bump ( if that is the rigfht term ?) , plays a part. Is my idea supported by anyone- eg a mid type cab and a deeper fundamental type cab?
A different method for tone shaping:
My idea is to control how much low end I have by controlling how loud each differently voiced cab, would be. If I want more mid- I will lower the vol of the deeper cab... and so on. Sorry this is long- back to JBL driver- I am asking if the opposite of the balanced cab concept, is an undoable bad idea- by have two cabs that have hopefully a complimentary mid bump and a nice low end bump. In the back of my mind, I wish to create mid bump with cabinet emphasis rather than turn up mids on an amplifier or eq ..so much. Ditto for low end fundamental- I don't want to turn the bass knob so much ( a little of course ) - preferring to have a woofy cab. Make sense?
On your recommendation, I have purchased a single JBL K 140.
Would it be impractical to attempt to describe how different cabs might yield different results with that killer 15 ?
I am torn between two tones- an extremely punchy ( Eden, Fender ) tone and a more woofy tone. I am old school, true, but I have been somewhat influenced by post Jaco ( Jaco my hero, is really new school, and actually used a radically unusual- much less bass - tone ) players.
Basically Duck Dunn, Jamerson are two killer fundamental, tube, old school sounds, and
The Jaco intensification of mids is the other - ( though I still think his choice - no accident- of an Acoustic 18", was a smart compensation for all his mid's emphasis). Basically a P bass ( Jamerson and Duck Dunn fundamental ) and a J bass emphasizing mids (Jaco, and Marcus ).
I am fantasizing that I would want 2 smallish to med cabs, one designed to 100% get "Jaco mids" and the other to get that fundamental type tone. Which cabs would cause the D140 to sound especially "fundamental" Motown city, and which cab would truncate some low end leaving the mids emphasized- roughly speaking- Jaco growl?
One line of thought is get a balanced sounding cab and use amp and fingers to create sound- of course this is true. But I still have a hunch that my "anti balanced cab" idea, where a basic cab "resonance" or bump ( if that is the rigfht term ?) , plays a part. Is my idea supported by anyone- eg a mid type cab and a deeper fundamental type cab?
A different method for tone shaping:
My idea is to control how much low end I have by controlling how loud each differently voiced cab, would be. If I want more mid- I will lower the vol of the deeper cab... and so on. Sorry this is long- back to JBL driver- I am asking if the opposite of the balanced cab concept, is an undoable bad idea- by have two cabs that have hopefully a complimentary mid bump and a nice low end bump. In the back of my mind, I wish to create mid bump with cabinet emphasis rather than turn up mids on an amplifier or eq ..so much. Ditto for low end fundamental- I don't want to turn the bass knob so much ( a little of course ) - preferring to have a woofy cab. Make sense?
I have a problem being to the point.. to sum up
two cabs with a 15 in each
one with a cab that nails a killer low end, but not boomy, with no concern for high end.
the other with serious mid punch
the issue is COMPLIMENTARINESS of cabs.
the object is to use tone knobs and eq a little less, allowing natural sound of cabs to create those two desired sounds - depending on whether I am soloing or nailing nice fundamental notes.
two cabs with a 15 in each
one with a cab that nails a killer low end, but not boomy, with no concern for high end.
the other with serious mid punch
the issue is COMPLIMENTARINESS of cabs.
the object is to use tone knobs and eq a little less, allowing natural sound of cabs to create those two desired sounds - depending on whether I am soloing or nailing nice fundamental notes.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Lol.. Not painted. Definitely paper.
This is a pic from the CL add. Pulled the speaker out, definitely a 140 in there.
Wow, a VA350!
You don't see many of those.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
if you're using the same speakers, say K140's, both cabs, whether they're ported, or not will have the same mids and high end. the only difference would be in the low end, and IME, it wouldn't be as drastic as your example. IMO, in order to get closer to doing what you describe, you'd have to have two completely different cabs with different drivers, but they may not work very well when using both of them together.
Thank you JOhn K
AM I dreaming, or is it true that some cabs are "voiced" ( is that the current terminology ?) with uneven responses and strobgly favor punch?
Same question for nice non boomy lows? I think a non boomy cab that is generally favoring the low end, is a rarity, esp when you factor in a "bad room". SO leaving bad rooms out of the equation please.
Am I dreaming, or are there very punchy cab designs that strongly favor a wide swatch of mid range 250 to I don't know, 800 ? Ditto for bass - but not sub bass?
I am trying to accomplish two things.. learn and experiment. Thanks John K you are a genius.
AM I dreaming, or is it true that some cabs are "voiced" ( is that the current terminology ?) with uneven responses and strobgly favor punch?
Same question for nice non boomy lows? I think a non boomy cab that is generally favoring the low end, is a rarity, esp when you factor in a "bad room". SO leaving bad rooms out of the equation please.
Am I dreaming, or are there very punchy cab designs that strongly favor a wide swatch of mid range 250 to I don't know, 800 ? Ditto for bass - but not sub bass?
I am trying to accomplish two things.. learn and experiment. Thanks John K you are a genius.
One sentence in your response leaves me hope. "but they may not work very well ... at same time"
Well turn the bottle upside down... "half full", not "half empty".
In other words, it IS possible that two cabs could be highy compimentary, correct. Then it follows what method would ought I*** use to find those complimentary cabs.
I already have noticed that I iike the punch out of the Markbass 2 10 cab in their combo amp.
In my gut I am hoping for a 2 10 in one cab and the K 140 in the other for the older school sound.
My tonal goals are: versatility that is partially created by two disparate and complimentary cabs, instead of purely depending on eq to reaching these various tonal goals eg
an old school Fundamental Stax Duck Dunn, and Motown Jamerson- a slightly more modern sound where the 15" is backed off the volume a bit and the other cabs more modern qualities come through more- eg Jaco, or even Marcus.
Normally people use tone controls to achieve this. I want to use less electronics/ eq, and more the cabs natural resonance, using only more or less volume ( changing the ratio of volume to each cab ) in each cab. I apologize for repeating myself, and perhaps being a little OT. But I love JBL 15's , so...!
Yes, some cabs are voiced,intentionally or otherwise. They introduce boosts or cuts in the frequencies sent to them.
You've unknowingly just described my speaker cabinets:
Adbass - TalkBass Wiki
You've unknowingly just described my speaker cabinets:
Adbass - TalkBass Wiki[/QUOTE]
Thank you Adbass ( was there a BCbass just before you? ha ha )
Are you saying the cab on top w the 6" is punchy as all get out?
and the low cab is naturally attuned to Jamerson or Duck Dunn?
I read about the option of removing a piece of wood designed to alter the low end... sounds interesting. Thank you
John K is saying that FINDING a compimentary pair of cabs is dicey.. I am putting words in his mouth, but that is my sense.
I have a LOT of regard for John K's opinions, because I have heard him play bass, and he kicks ass.
Anyone who plays as well as he does AND builds quality instruments - bass and guitar- AND worked for Leo Fender in his later years- And who has built a killer studio- is one highly unusual person in our business. I have met very talented players, and on occasion talented builders, I knew Ken Smith BEFORE he built a bass ha ha- But I only know one other person who plays very very well AND has all this other knowledge. John K knows music from multiple points of view that a guy like me is barred from.
So whether I like it or not, John's words ( freely offered ) carry a lot of weight with me.
Adbass - TalkBass Wiki[/QUOTE]
Thank you Adbass ( was there a BCbass just before you? ha ha )
Are you saying the cab on top w the 6" is punchy as all get out?
and the low cab is naturally attuned to Jamerson or Duck Dunn?
I read about the option of removing a piece of wood designed to alter the low end... sounds interesting. Thank you
John K is saying that FINDING a compimentary pair of cabs is dicey.. I am putting words in his mouth, but that is my sense.
I have a LOT of regard for John K's opinions, because I have heard him play bass, and he kicks ass.
Anyone who plays as well as he does AND builds quality instruments - bass and guitar- AND worked for Leo Fender in his later years- And who has built a killer studio- is one highly unusual person in our business. I have met very talented players, and on occasion talented builders, I knew Ken Smith BEFORE he built a bass ha ha- But I only know one other person who plays very very well AND has all this other knowledge. John K knows music from multiple points of view that a guy like me is barred from.
So whether I like it or not, John's words ( freely offered ) carry a lot of weight with me.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
IME, the only real way to get two completely different sounding cabs to compliment each other is if one of them is supplying frequencies that the other is not. in other words, using a crossover at the points where they overlap.
you can experiment until eternity, but i really think that you're making it more difficult than it needs to be, and could spend alot of time going backwards doing it.
