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Vintage 15" JBL comparisons w/soundclips

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by johnk_10, Sep 20, 2011.


  1. pgk

    pgk

    Aug 19, 2007
    dude, now you're starting to piss me off. this is turning into a " just gotta have the last word" type of thing that has all to do with your ego and nothing to do with the topic at hand. let it go. there are six of these drivers that are'nt supposed to exist in washington dc, that is an undeniable fact. get over yourself. i will not let you do some wacko revisionist history thing here just to satisfy your own ego. i just left the guy's house in fact and saw one of those cabs!
     
  2. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    IMO, rather than debate about whether this mystery version of a JBL D140 existed or not, all it would take is a good picture of one of them, and then someone to actually weigh one of them. IMO, Ed isn't trying to have the 'last word' about it, but is merely attempting to get to the truth about them. being a huge fan of vintage JBL's, i too would be interested, since i've never seen or heard of one of them, which of course has no bearing about whether they did or didn't exist.
     
  3. 1n3

    1n3

    Sep 13, 2007
    USA
    +1

    Pot, meet kettle. Since you've both got your own impeachable sources, there's nowhere (good) for the conversation to go, absent the kind of new information that johnk_10 lists.

    Wonder if this could be a manufacturing anomoly, where a batch of unusually heavy magnets was produced and used without knowledge of Messrs Sundholm and Gerst. Seems unlikely, but how else to reconcile these contradictory reports?
     
  4. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, but since I'm no angel ;) I have to concur with JohnK's recommendation of getting the data: photos, weight, and if at all possible some sort of performance data compared to the garden variety D140Fs. Same cabs, same amps, SPL meters, T/S measurements, etc.

    I have no horse in this race (other than a pair of D140Fs :D) and I respect what both posters are saying as they both did their homework and I sure as #%$!! am no expert. Please, gentlemen, peace, bring the data to the "court" and from there the jury can do its thing. This is important since obviously a lot of people are very interested in the subject, these speakers are a piece of music history and so deserve the best we can do to shed light on all this. IMHO, IME, my 0.02. :)
     
  5. edbass

    edbass

    Nov 8, 2004
    So, not to beat a dead horse, but... I finally got a chance to get an accurate weight on a D140F, 15 lb 9 oz.
    Any chance of ParaDoc or pgk getting a weight on one of the "special" D140Fs?
    I still can't find anybody else who knows about these, and I want to be sure I'm not chasing a ghost. An accurate weight would be helpful!
     
  6. funkytoe

    funkytoe Supporting Member

    Jan 17, 2008
    Northern California
    +1

    Great playing too John. Were you playing to a click track or just winging that groove?
     
  7. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I realize this thread sidetrack was posted awhile back but I do want to clarify. The driver you used sound nothing like the better open back models in a 3 liter chamber with liberal polyfill or fiberglass stuffing.

    Liken this to thinking a cheapie Em Alpha 15 sounds or operates much like a K140 ; }

    So, John if that cab isn't getting much play, you might consider building a midrange chamber for it.
     
  8. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    thanks. no click track, i was just winging it.
     
  9. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    thanks. i thought about that, but my version of a 1212/6 cab sounds almost just like my accugroove whappo jr (in both volume and freq response) and i'm actually happy with it the way it is.
     
  10. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Back in the day, people assumed that players with good time actually had good time. Now they think they're playing with a click. HA!
     
  11. +1 :)
    I played 'drums' for years at home, using plastic ten pins, along to Stones, Supremes, Hank Williams-whatever Dad had in his collection. When I got BASS lessons, 1st thing my teacher taught was to keep time.
    Showed me how to play the bass line in time, but SLOWER, if I couldn't play it in time 'at speed'
     
  12. Alex1984

    Alex1984

    Jan 16, 2010
    Vancouver
    John, I asked this on another thread, but how do these JBLs compare to EVM 15B/Ls and Altecs? Specifically in a Thiele B15N cab.
     
  13. funkytoe

    funkytoe Supporting Member

    Jan 17, 2008
    Northern California
    I blame Pro Tools. We used to be able to listen to a recorded track and tell the good players from the also-rans. Now, I hear good time and consistency of attack I wonder if its "talent" or "technology." In John's case, I kinda had a feeling it was talent. Just my inquisitive nature getting the best of me. No offense intended.
     
  14. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    i 've never liked Altecs at all. to me, they have way too many mids from 800-1Kkz and sound like a megaphone. IMO, EV 15L's are great though. IMO, JBL's are clearer, smoother and more efficient, but 15L's have some nice midbass punch.
     
  15. Bassmec

    Bassmec

    May 9, 2008
    Ipswich UK
    Proprietor Springvale Studios
    Altec 15" drivers are quite variable in my experience.
    Altec 421 are hard and bright but works good for the ampeg folded horn.
    Altec 515 are bassy and far darker sounding, good for hi fi bass.
    But the Altec alnico 418 series II is kind of half way between a K140 and a K130 tonally to my ear.
    I would say the EV 15L is brilliant for smoothing high midbass tones from rickenbackers and basses like warwick that are quite tuba like tonally.
    JBL K140 is the King of clanking bright clean to cut a mix but still just about warm enough for most people to enjoy solo.
    I am very interested in your K140 driven Acoustic 408.
    that must be utterly frickin awesome, how well do you think the speakers match the cab?, Have you measured any response graphs?.:hyper:
    :bassist:
     
  16. lfh

    lfh

    Dec 18, 2003
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Excellent thread! Many thanks for the sound clips!

    :hyper:

    By careful inspection of the pictures, I just noticed that the specific K140 used in the test has a different type of surround than the E130 and E140. The E:s have the usual dual-roll edge, but the K has the (for JBL) more unusual triple-roll edge found e.g. in early versions of the 2205 and the 2216. Since I've never seen a K140 IRL, this observation led me to the Lansing Heritage for factory pictures:

    1971 2205 (triple-roll)
    1974 2216/LE15B (triple-roll)
    1977? K140 (dual-roll)
    1978 K140 (dual-roll)

    Actually in none of the factory pics I can dig up, the K140 has a surround such as yours, hence my question:

    Do all your K:s look like the one depicted? If not, are you sure the unit used for the test has an original factory cone assembly? I'm not nitpicking here, but since I too like the sound of your K, I'd like to make sure that when I get one, it sounds like that and not like the E140 example. Possibly the surround design (and maybe other minor details not reflected in the TS parameters) changed during the production years, and to get the killer tone we must get the year XXXX units with stock cones? By that token I'd say that a K that has been reconed with the C8RE140 cone kit is not a K anymore -- it's in essence more an E than a K (but not exactly an E140, given the slight differences in motor properties).
     
  17. lfh

    lfh

    Dec 18, 2003
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Here are better pics of the LE15B with triple-roll or "accordion" surround.
     
  18. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    IME, E kits on K baskets sound essentially the same, and that particular pair in this cab has not been reconed (they were NOS when i bought them) , and their speaker's white ink stamp has the same white ink stamp #'s as my other 8 of them. two of the 12 that i have been reconed with C8RK140 kits, and two others have th C8RE140 kits.
     
  19. lfh

    lfh

    Dec 18, 2003
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Excellent that your reference drivers are NOS! What about the surrounds, then: Are all your K:s of the depicted accordion type? If not, what type was used in the C8RK140 kits (unfortunately discontinued in the 80:s).
     
  20. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    i'll have to look at them again, but IIRC all of their surrounds look the same.

    here's another set of them that were reconed with NOS C8RK140 kits and they have the triple folded surrounds.

    190B-wcab-2.jpg
     

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