WARNING: Jon Letts/Letts Basses

[MJ5150]

Thread cleanup complete.
The needless back and forth, bickering, name calling, etc has been removed from the thread.
We'll leave the thread open so long as we can all follow along with the TalkBass terms of use found here: https://www.talkbass.com/help/terms.
The ones we all agreed to when we joined this forum.

-Mike

 

[J Posega]

Dickish, regardless.

It’s like going back to a lying, cheating ex. After so many times and zero proof that they’ve changed, you can’t just jump right back into it and expect a different outcome.

Letts is clearly a pathological liar incapable of managing his business. And to take him at his word after summary judgment from the courts AND still not having been paid back or received any proof that things have changed is the very definition of foolish.

 

[Sharko]

Thread cleanup complete.
The needless back and forth, bickering, name calling, etc has been removed from the thread.
We'll leave the thread open so long as we can all follow along with the TalkBass terms of use found here: https://www.talkbass.com/help/terms.
The ones we all agreed to when we joined this forum.

-Mike

Thank you for saving this otherwise wildly entertaining thread

 

[Why Nautilus‽]

Hey all, sorry if it’s wrong to re-start this thread.

Is there any update?

 

[Geri O]

Britannica Dictionary definition of HIGH HORSE. [singular] informal. ◊ If you are on a/your high horse, you are talking or behaving in a way that shows that you think you are better than other people or that you know more about something than other people do.

If that’s how being an adult is described these days, I’ll take it.

Me and Trigger got a long way to go….

 

[EddieG]

Hey all, sorry if it’s wrong to re-start this thread.

Is there any update?

There is indeed. After sorting out the details, the build is starting.
I've specified the design and elements which I need to have incorporated, Jon has agreed to this, and the wood has arrived.

The bass is going to be a neck-through singlecut 5-string, body wings will be ash with a 5-piece laminated neck and rosewood fretboard and a 33" scale, a 16mm string spacing, and the series/single/parallel switching layout I use in all my instruments.
Jon is glueing the neck blank up in the next couple of days, which will then settle and he'll clarify with me what the details are at each step going forward.

Very early days, but I'm hopeful to be able to keep everyone updated as the project progresses.

 

[Why Nautilus‽]

Hopeful for you.

 

[EddieG]

Hopeful for you.

Thanks, dude.
Like I said, it's early days but I think Jon has possibly turned a corner in the way he conducts his business as well as his guitar-building.
Time will tell.

 

[Giffro]

Sadly I can see this thread having a Part 2 in another 5 years or so when this situation is still unresolved.
As others have said, Eddie you are too nice for your own good and Jon will continue to abuse this.

I would have been about 62 when the OP wanted his bass built approx 2013. Now i'm nearly 73. I hope its resolved before I hit 78 let alone 10 more years and 83!

 

[Mike Vee]

 

[Lance Bunyon]

The real annoying thing about this builder thread is that at any given time there's usually 3 or 4 Letts basses available on Reverb at any given time, which reminds me of one of my custom builds from another luthier.
Which means to say some builders just do what they want and build what they build whilst de-prioritizing the custom ordered builds of their "premium" clients.

And his basses look good. I'm often tempted to pickup a 32 scale...

 

[MARVIN MECKLER]

Invalid Link Removed

 

[iTzPrime]

The real annoying thing about this builder thread is that at any given time there's usually 3 or 4 Letts basses available on Reverb at any given time, which reminds me of one of my custom builds from another luthier.
Which means to say some builders just do what they want and build what they build whilst de-prioritizing the custom ordered builds of their "premium" clients.

And his basses look good. I'm often tempted to pickup a 32 scale...

given the strong USD vs the Japanese Yen a custom build from momose, Bacchus, Atelier Z etc could be nice.

 

[Nolan Tremblay]

Wow, what an adventure! This is perhaps not the worst story I've heard, but it is up there and it is the only one I've seen that had successful court proceedings in it. I (morbidly) find these sorts of situations interesting and the unfortunate side is that most of them follow a very similar storyline.

I didn't read every post, but my advice to the OP would be to just accept whatever comes of this latest build. The behaviour of this person mirrors the majority of these sorts of "luthiers" across guitar and bass boards that I've followed. Many are extremely communicative until they have your money and then go silent, which isn't necessarily an issue if this means they're hard at work on yours or other instruments. Next comes delay after delay, other basses being posted up for sale on various spots on the internet and then unending delays. Meanwhile, there's an increasing number of new build/clients showing up in social media/forums. The "luthier" starts offering discounts and the number of clients in the queue starts climbing. My honest read of this is that the builder is charging much too little for their work relative to their business costs. This is pretty much a giveaway here as the price charged for this instrument makes no sense given the costs of components and hours of labour involved with the "luthier" living in a first world country. The "luthier" is likely securing additional deposits to pay for components to get other instruments out the door, either for stock sale or to clients. This is just chasing cash flow while the business is operating in the red and will eventually cease operations. I'm honestly surprised the "luthier" is still communicating, as most would have completely disappeared 5+ years ago in the stories I know. I suppose the court proceedings may have something to do with this.

For those who are reading this as a cautionary tale, please take the warning that if someone is undercharging for a custom instrument, then you are taking on a lot of risk as a client. It's pretty straightforward for someone to add up the cost of a bass and most low volume builders are probably not getting huge breaks on list prices from component manufacturers. When you factor in the number of hours required to build a custom instrument (let's say 100 hours for a round number), you can pretty quickly figure out what kind of margin exists on the instrument. If it is very low then this should tell you something and you should be very cautious about sending money. References would be useful as would a lengthy reputation of delivering a quality product. Barring that, there should be a reasonable deposit/timeline agreement. Full payment up front should require some sort of good reasoning as to why it makes sense as the remaining balance payment is certainly a revenue stream for any business to work to and incentize them to deliver your order, which I think makes a lot of sense in the custom instrument world. The client's risk is minimized to a reasonable degree to ensure they will pay the balance once the instrument is done

TL;DR - full price up front and very low prices for custom instruments should be significant red flags and people should accept that they are taking substantial risk with their money.

 

[Bassface82]

Hey all. I wasn't really going to post about this and continue trying to handle it myself, but recent developments have forced my hand to the point I now feel that not warning my fellow bassists in the community and potential customers across the world about this guy would make me as bad as he is.
I'll split this into separate replies on this thread, because there's a lot of detail that simply can't be told in one but please, bear with me.

In late June 2013 and after a long time of searching for and not finding the instrument I wanted and needed, I came across the website of Jon Letts and Letts Basses, based in Leicester, UK. I was surprised at how little a luthier was charging for handbuilt custom work and with my impending 40th birthday the missus to finance an order from him, and after some back and forth I agreed the details of a custom 33" scale neck-through 5-string. I paid above the normal price for a decent top and my own spec of neck laminates, sent him a deposit, and he said he'd order the materials and get started.

View attachment 5335949

Letts talked a good game, claiming at one point the instrument would be "the greatest bass you'll ever see", and I was quite comfortable that he seemed genuine, so after some more chat and his outright guarantee that paying in full up front would punt my order to the top of the pile, I (like a moron) transferred the balance in good faith.
View attachment 5335950 He gave me a delivery date of 24 weeks. At first he would keep in touch fairly regularly, let me know when the woods arrived etc, but it wasn't long before problems began...

Not long after he received the balance, he would start refusing to do things that I was asking him to do, and that he'd previously assured me would be fine; the bass was utterly bespoke, he had no model range that I was choosing from, and I had designed it based on the physical requirements I had. He had agreed to all of this, but he started coming away with stuff like "I can't really deviate from the contouring that I do", and other things like that. Pretty much trying to push me into accepting whatever he wanted to make. Fairly quickly into the build process, Letts would start to disappear, and it was hard to get hold of him. I don't mean emailing him day after day because that's not my style, but I'd email him every other week or so for updates, and find him hard to get hold of, completely contrary to before he had my money. Now and again I'd see his website updated, at one point with the materials for my bass, so I believed he was cracking on with building it.

While he was meant to be building my bass, I kept seeing him and his stooge Brent appearing online elsewhere touting for more business by offering cut-price deals to potential customers. Brent was also the person he tasked with handling his social media and online queries, but the guy's customer service skills were absolutely horrendous, and I saw him essentially abusing people on another forum for answering reasonable questions about his slowly but steadily developing dodgy business practices. At one point I essentially saw Brent tell a customer that he should just STFU and let Letts build the bass, just because the customer wasn't happy with where Letts was choosing to take the details of the build he'd paid for!

As the 24wk deadline for completion got closer I started to press Letts on the progress and when it would be done. Eventually, he began sending me photos, as the deadline came and very quickly went. But seeing a little progress, I felt a bit more comfortable that Letts was going to build and deliver what I paid for. So I didn't press him too hard, and let him carry on.
View attachment 5335954 View attachment 5335955 View attachment 5335956 View attachment 5335957 View attachment 5335958 View attachment 5335959 View attachment 5335960 View attachment 5335961

 

[Bassface82]

Hey all. I wasn't really going to post about this and continue trying to handle it myself, but recent developments have forced my hand to the point I now feel that not warning my fellow bassists in the community and potential customers across the world about this guy would make me as bad as he is.
I'll split this into separate replies on this thread, because there's a lot of detail that simply can't be told in one but please, bear with me.

In late June 2013 and after a long time of searching for and not finding the instrument I wanted and needed, I came across the website of Jon Letts and Letts Basses, based in Leicester, UK. I was surprised at how little a luthier was charging for handbuilt custom work and with my impending 40th birthday the missus to finance an order from him, and after some back and forth I agreed the details of a custom 33" scale neck-through 5-string. I paid above the normal price for a decent top and my own spec of neck laminates, sent him a deposit, and he said he'd order the materials and get started.

View attachment 5335949

Letts talked a good game, claiming at one point the instrument would be "the greatest bass you'll ever see", and I was quite comfortable that he seemed genuine, so after some more chat and his outright guarantee that paying in full up front would punt my order to the top of the pile, I (like a moron) transferred the balance in good faith.
View attachment 5335950 He gave me a delivery date of 24 weeks. At first he would keep in touch fairly regularly, let me know when the woods arrived etc, but it wasn't long before problems began...

Not long after he received the balance, he would start refusing to do things that I was asking him to do, and that he'd previously assured me would be fine; the bass was utterly bespoke, he had no model range that I was choosing from, and I had designed it based on the physical requirements I had. He had agreed to all of this, but he started coming away with stuff like "I can't really deviate from the contouring that I do", and other things like that. Pretty much trying to push me into accepting whatever he wanted to make. Fairly quickly into the build process, Letts would start to disappear, and it was hard to get hold of him. I don't mean emailing him day after day because that's not my style, but I'd email him every other week or so for updates, and find him hard to get hold of, completely contrary to before he had my money. Now and again I'd see his website updated, at one point with the materials for my bass, so I believed he was cracking on with building it.

While he was meant to be building my bass, I kept seeing him and his stooge Brent appearing online elsewhere touting for more business by offering cut-price deals to potential customers. Brent was also the person he tasked with handling his social media and online queries, but the guy's customer service skills were absolutely horrendous, and I saw him essentially abusing people on another forum for answering reasonable questions about his slowly but steadily developing dodgy business practices. At one point I essentially saw Brent tell a customer that he should just STFU and let Letts build the bass, just because the customer wasn't happy with where Letts was choosing to take the details of the build he'd paid for!

As the 24wk deadline for completion got closer I started to press Letts on the progress and when it would be done. Eventually, he began sending me photos, as the deadline came and very quickly went. But seeing a little progress, I felt a bit more comfortable that Letts was going to build and deliver what I paid for. So I didn't press him too hard, and let him carry on.
View attachment 5335954 View attachment 5335955 View attachment 5335956 View attachment 5335957 View attachment 5335958 View attachment 5335959 View attachment 5335960 View attachment 5335961[/QUOTE

Hey there has anyone tried getting in touch with ‘The Stooge’ maybe he would be able to shine some light on this situation…

 

[Bassface82]

Intrigued, and of course it was a Brent. Ready for the next installment!

 

[Bassface82]

Has anyone found this Brent character ?

 

[EddieG]

Been a little preoccupied with family and stuff, but thought I'd do a little update.
So I emailed Letts late last month to ask where we were at, and received a reply the following day.

So up till then, progressing as normal. So I left him 2wks, then emailed to see what had been done, seeing as he had claimed he would glue up the neck blank, leave it to sit up for a bit, and then get on with it. I emailed again on the 14th June.

Didn't get a response.

So yesterday I went on Facebook for a bit, and noticed that Letts was still posting about his builds, although none look familiar. So I commented on his post...

...and as of this afternoon, had no response.
So I sent an email.

It's only been 25 minutes or so, but as of writing there has been no response.

So that's where we're at; I'm trying to get an answer from Letts as to where we stand.

What do you think, folks? Will Letts be into the build by now after his promises, or will it still be a pile of wood? Is he going to complete the bass at all?

Stay tuned for more Happy Days!

(And remember to share this thread out for me PLEASE!)

 

[gln1955]