Fat Steve
The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.
Yeah the resale value would be shot. Perhaps OP is one of us folks that don't necessarily buy gear with the intent to flip it?
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WARNING PF 50t does NOT fit inside all Portaflex cabs!!!
- Thread starter AgressivePassiv
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- ampeg
Yeah the resale value would be shot. Perhaps OP is one of us folks that don't necessarily buy gear with the intent to flip it?
Yes, but the point was that he purchased it especially to flip it.. (flip top into cab)
Although it's not a pretty mod I suspect the cab will be just fine as long as you don't drop it or move it around too much. I suspect that cross bracing was there to add some rigidity back to the enclosure after the top was cut out for the flip top amp. I don't think it will have much if any impact on sound, outside of possible buzzing or rattling if you loosened any of the glue joints or screws. But bass cabs are heavy and do get man handled when loading in or out so real care needs to be taken with this one.
BTW I do agree with you that Ampeg should have disclosed this known issue as a footnote on their written ads. Something like "compatible with all models made after xx date or with serial numbers greater than xyz". But noting it in video promos just gets overly wordy and video time isn't cheap, so at best I would have expected to hear something like "some restrictions may apply". That would at least give a potential buyer the clue to look further for compatibility confirmation.
Lastly, you seem like an honest TBer, so if you ever decide to sell this one be sure to take a higher road than Ampeg and provide full disclosure on the mods you've made. It will effect the sale price for sure but at least it won't effect your ongoing relationships with other bass players.
Most important, Enjoy your new rig!
Fat Steve
The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.
Alrighty you snarky bastid, ya got me. I meant flip as in resale, not literally flip the top. +1
They say sharks tooth bracing is more open sounding and has sweeter low mid burp. 
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
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"The taxidermist is gonna have a heart attack when he sees what I brung him".
Gratuitous Jaws reference.
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"The taxidermist is gonna have a heart attack when he sees what I brung him".
Gratuitous Jaws reference.
They say sharks tooth bracing is more open sounding and has sweeter low mid burp.
Why accept culpability when he is not the original owner which is required to take this issue any further. Ampeg does not owe him an explanation or a remedy to his problem. They clearly state on their website a copy of the original receipt is required. If he had that they would help him as they have always done in the past for their customers.
From the Ampeg website:
PLEASE READ THE PARAGRAPH BELOW:
All products being presented to an LOUD Technologies Inc. Authorized Field Service Center for warranty service must be accompanied by a copy of the original sales receipt. All products being returned to LOUD Technologies Inc. for warranty service must be accompanied by a copy of the original sales receipt , a detailed description as to needed repairs, and an LOUD Technologies Inc. Return Authorization. LOUD Technologies Inc. reserves the right to repair or replace this piece of equipment at their option but it is understood that repair or replacement as provided under this limited warranty is the sole and exclusive remedy to the purchaser for defective or non-conforming products.
Culpability for potentially misleading customers isn't a warranty issue. Not saying there is or isn't culpability here, but it's a totally separate issue from warranty coverage. Peace, Bob
If I put my reply in bold letters does it come across more than the next guys?
I think it is fairly clear there is no warranty on used gear most of the time and no one in this thread has suggested otherwise. The video does state it will work with the cabs which is also clearly misleading as it will not work with some of them.
I think it is fairly clear there is no warranty on used gear most of the time and no one in this thread has suggested otherwise. The video does state it will work with the cabs which is also clearly misleading as it will not work with some of them.
First and foremost Ampeg should edit both the product video and page 4 of the PF 50t owners manual to no longer suggest that the new heads will fit all of the old cabs.
Second they should do something for their loyal customers who own an older cab and also just dropped $900 on a new head. This is my 9th Ampeg purchase, most of the amps and cabs I've bought were new at the time and I've been recommending their gear for almost as long as I've been playing.
I don't see this as a warranty issue. It's closer to a recall issue, where car makers for example do a free retrofit regardless of who the current owner is. I admit the comparison may be a stretch since auto recalls are life, death and liability issues.
Forget requiring proof of purchase. I doubt most original owners of 2012 Portaflex cabs have retained their receipts anyway.
What do I think would be fair?
Either a no charge retro-fit to move or remove the bracing for PF 50t and possibly PF 20t(not sure if they fit or not) owners.
Or a rebate program for people who own the older cabs and want to buy a new one that will fit their new heads. I'm sure Ampeg could survive smaller profit margins on extra sales to people who already own Portaflex cabs and wouldn't have bought a new one otherwise. By their own words it's only a small number of early cabs anyway. I would have been happy if I was offered $100 off a new cab to make up for the misunderstanding.
If the rep on the phone was even slightly apologetic about the misinformation about compatibility I'd have been less pissed off. Many companies would have promised to look into it and possibly clear up a similar issue.
Hopefully this thread will prevent someone from being surprised by this issue. More than half of the bassists I know are on not talkbass and would never read this thread before buying. I won't be the last guy to have this issue.
Second they should do something for their loyal customers who own an older cab and also just dropped $900 on a new head. This is my 9th Ampeg purchase, most of the amps and cabs I've bought were new at the time and I've been recommending their gear for almost as long as I've been playing.
I don't see this as a warranty issue. It's closer to a recall issue, where car makers for example do a free retrofit regardless of who the current owner is. I admit the comparison may be a stretch since auto recalls are life, death and liability issues.
Forget requiring proof of purchase. I doubt most original owners of 2012 Portaflex cabs have retained their receipts anyway.
What do I think would be fair?
Either a no charge retro-fit to move or remove the bracing for PF 50t and possibly PF 20t(not sure if they fit or not) owners.
Or a rebate program for people who own the older cabs and want to buy a new one that will fit their new heads. I'm sure Ampeg could survive smaller profit margins on extra sales to people who already own Portaflex cabs and wouldn't have bought a new one otherwise. By their own words it's only a small number of early cabs anyway. I would have been happy if I was offered $100 off a new cab to make up for the misunderstanding.
If the rep on the phone was even slightly apologetic about the misinformation about compatibility I'd have been less pissed off. Many companies would have promised to look into it and possibly clear up a similar issue.
Hopefully this thread will prevent someone from being surprised by this issue. More than half of the bassists I know are on not talkbass and would never read this thread before buying. I won't be the last guy to have this issue.
I think that maybe just having a new youtube video about it, or editing the old one, to contain the revision, and either describe how to fix it easily (like those how to remove your cab's grill videos) or otherwise offering to fix it at a service center or something.
edit: What I mean to say by easy fix, is that maybe the brace is unnecessary, but helps a bit with stability, and could either just be cut out, or moved relatively simply.
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I've looked at the picture of the PF115 cabinet but its impossible to tell how close to the lip of the lid the brace is...I bought my cabinet two years ago and the brace is about 8 inches from the lip of the case. Since the specs for the PF50t say that it is 7.3 inches high it appears my cab will work. Measurements would help everyone determine whether there's a problem...
I stopped at the Carle Place Sam Ash in NY and popped the lid off the 115e they have for sale on the floor just to see what the newer designed cab looks like without the bracing. And behold...
I asked the sales guy how long the cab has been in stock and told him about the issue. He said it's been there for a while.
Ampeg's product video and owners manual for the PF 50t still suggest full compatibility with current/existing Portaflex cabs. Yet there are new incompatible cabs for sale out there as well as all of the used ones(like I ended up with).
I'll measure for you when I get home. Though Ampeg told me that the bracing was removed, if that's true yours won't fit.
Fits just fine....and for what its worth, it looks just like the pic you posted above. Is this a non-problem?
Ok, here are my measurements and pics.
I was expecting to see no brace since the Ampeg rep told me that "bracing was removed". Maybe he was misinformed or misspoke and they lowered the bracing.
The bracing on my incompatible cab is/was 6" from the top of the cab(lid removed).
The bracing is/was about 2&1/2" wide.
The top of the plate with jacks and serial# is 7" from the top of the cab(lid removed)
Maybe the nos cab at Sam Ash is compatible. I might bring my PF 50t(Mounted to my lid) back to that Sam ash on Friday and see if it fits. If it does.... I might buy that cab. I've been having some buzzing and rattling issues with mine. I really dig the head and love the Fliptop design in theory.
CMIIW, IIRC from other posts, the E and Q in AgressivePassiv's PFII5HE S/N: PF115HEANEQ0173 stand for the year 2012 and first half of September 2012.
And these are from mine (production of 1st half of Feb 2015):
The bracing on mine is 7.5" from the top of the cab (lid removed). I didn't measure how wide it is nor the back plate measurement.
And these are from mine (production of 1st half of Feb 2015):
The bracing on mine is 7.5" from the top of the cab (lid removed). I didn't measure how wide it is nor the back plate measurement.
I'm coming to this thread the day I received my PF50. Back in 2012, I bought a new PF115HE and a PF350 head. This was gonna be my smaller more portable rig allowing me to get into and out of a gig in one trip. Pow! It did that, but I was limited in my tone options quite a bit, and there wasn't much in it for balls at rehearsal. I then bought a used PF500 used, and popped it on for larger gigs, keeping the 350 for little stuff. I like the series, and its flexibility. I've been doing more recording, and the tube head of the 50 sounded pretty awesome. So I picked one up, mounted it on the top of the amp and tried to flip it. Then I found this thread. I bought the 115 new in 2012, and it's in great shape. I have all the original sales documents, so I'll be letting y'all know if Ampeg offers to help me out at all, or how Sweetwater handles the issue. I know I'll at least be able to return the head with no issue. I wouldn't take out the brace since this is really intended for a touring rig. I would consider buying a 210 cab to put on top of the 15 if I can find out if the PF50 fits on that, but no way in hell am I buying anything more in the line until I know for sure it will fit. Stay tuned.
Portaflex newb here sounding ignorant, but does this boil down to the pre-PF50-T design having the rear lateral brace 6" from the top vs. 7.5" on the main production run? My PF115HE works with my PF50-T, however...
Second question, and this one probably unanswerable: Why couldn't they move the horn down an inch or two when they moved the brace, so I can flip the lid front-to-back with easy wrist action instead of side-to-side, which takes Ringling Brothers energy and skill? It's the difference between "slick and convenient" vs. "unwieldy, but doable." I see room on the front baffle for that to have happened.
Second question, and this one probably unanswerable: Why couldn't they move the horn down an inch or two when they moved the brace, so I can flip the lid front-to-back with easy wrist action instead of side-to-side, which takes Ringling Brothers energy and skill? It's the difference between "slick and convenient" vs. "unwieldy, but doable." I see room on the front baffle for that to have happened.
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