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Watchmen!!!!

omg. just got back from seeing this movie.

that was absolutely -awful-. i had guardedly high hopes for this movie, but i was EMBARRASSED.

they took the hamlet of graphic novels and ruined it.

i -love- violence in movies, but the violence in this one was completely uncalled for and ridiculous, the sex scene with dan and laurie was embarrassing.

and the replacement for the squid? that was awful, truly awful - ridiculously awful. this whole movie was like the mtv trl version of the graphic novel - as much of the eye candy as possible, without any depth or story. it was like they couldn't decide whether they wanted to stick to the original or try to remake it.

WRETCHED.

i want my money back. i want my 2.5 hours back. i want the innocent delight i had in the original story back. all of these were taken from me by these ... i can't say what i think of the people responsible for this steaming pile of crap. i'd lose my admin status if i did.
 
Methinks someone's expectations were a little too high.

There's simply no way anyone can condense the amount of development in the graphic novel into a 3 hour movie. It would have to be at least 8 hours long to really do the book justice.

I think the people who made it were stuck with a Catch-22, in that keeping completely faithful to the graphic novel wouldn't make for a very good movie, but deviating from it would really piss off the fans (see: John Turner). I didn't think it was a bad movie, but it does pale in comparison to the graphic novel, though I believe that was inevitable.

All things considered, I think the producers did as good a job of turning Watchmen into a movie as anyone could have.
 
While I was disappointed somewhat with a lack of many components that made Watchmen so amazing the overall product still held many of the philosophical and moral conundrums associated with super heroes and saving the world that made the graphic novel one of the greatest ever written. Standing back and looking at the big picture I have to say it is likely the best movie port you're ever going to see of Watchmen, I knew it couldn't be completely done, but I knew Snyder could come close, and he came as close as possible.
If taken with a grain of salt and with the fact in mind that the graphic novel was 12 issues long and featured several multi-layered story arcs you'll find that it is as faithful as a film can get to the original source material.
 
omg. just got back from seeing this movie.

that was absolutely -awful-. i had guardedly high hopes for this movie, but i was EMBARRASSED.

they took the hamlet of graphic novels and ruined it.

i -love- violence in movies, but the violence in this one was completely uncalled for and ridiculous, the sex scene with dan and laurie was embarrassing.

and the replacement for the squid? that was awful, truly awful - ridiculously awful. this whole movie was like the mtv trl version of the graphic novel - as much of the eye candy as possible, without any depth or story. it was like they couldn't decide whether they wanted to stick to the original or try to remake it.

WRETCHED.

i want my money back. i want my 2.5 hours back. i want the innocent delight i had in the original story back. all of these were taken from me by these ... i can't say what i think of the people responsible for this steaming pile of crap. i'd lose my admin status if i did.

I haven't seen it yet John, and you're opinion of it is kind of what I think mine might be. I've been rereading the Watchmen graphic novel, and I'm realizing even from what I've seen of the trailers that this has a good chance to suck eggs. :atoz:
 
Methinks someone's expectations were a little too high.

i won't deny that, although i did set them lower than i thought i would, especially when i learned about the endgame replacement. i was totally willing to give it a chance, and went in really hoping for the best.

besides, i'm not really as much a fan ho of alan moore as i am of, say frank miller or neil gaiman.

There's simply no way anyone can condense the amount of development in the graphic novel into a 3 hour movie. It would have to be at least 8 hours long to really do the book justice.

i was all for cutting things, but there was no reason for a few of the changes/substitutions that they made that enraged me the most.

I think the people who made it were stuck with a Catch-22, in that keeping completely faithful to the graphic novel wouldn't make for a very good movie, but deviating from it would really piss off the fans (see: John Turner). I didn't think it was a bad movie, but it does pale in comparison to the graphic novel, though I believe that was inevitable.

All things considered, I think the producers did as good a job of turning Watchmen into a movie as anyone could have.

hey, i'm not rabid by-the-book guy. i loved v for vendetta, and that was -substantially- different than the graphic novel.

but with the watchmen they corrupted a few of the key concepts that showed me that they didn't "get" it for a few of the most important things. with a movie version, the plot by needs needed to be simplified, but if they had made the characters complete and true to the source material, then all else could have been forgiven, i think. they didn't.

rorshach would have -never- lost it like he did against the girl's kidnapper, and they had no reason to show him actually killing the guy. the way it was in the book was philosophical, and reflected rorshach's value structure completely. the fire was a purging, purifying thing. the dude had the option of crippling himself or being purified.

rorshach losing it and chopping the guy on the head showed me that snyder has no clue about rorshach, and -he- is the most important foil to the veidt, imo, one of the most important absolutes in the story. "never compromise".

speaking of veidt, he came across imo as weak and snivelling. i envisioned veidt as ladyhawke -ere- rutger hauer, physically, and someone of donald trump-esque presence, not some skinny nerdy know it all. his whole physical and verbal presence in the movie was wrong, and making it his idea as opposed to the old guy, mr metropolis, to form "The crimebusters/watchmen" was another element that just weakened his character that much further - the "smartest man alive" and he couldn't have figured out the truth from the start about what was needed? in the novel he was just figuring things out, but had not yet committed to any course of action. this more appropriately fit his level of development at the time.

many characters where simplified, and that's fine for movie contraints, but imo rorshach and veidt were corrupted by the filmmakers taking licence with their story, and it ruined it for me.

the whole ending thing too, was just hollywood crap. the original ending was supposed to be somewhat absurd, and unbelievable, for the simple reason that that's what would have been required in such a screwy world as the story's earth was to make the PTB change their tune and play together.

lastly, purely on simple movie terms the movie left me unsatisfied - it was not coherent, did not flow well, imo. it was a little stilted, unnecessarily, and that frustrated me as well.

tbh i almost left when rorshach went nuts on the kidnapper. i stayed til the end, though, because i still held out hope.

you know, reviewers are giving snyder props for sticking to the source material, which is ironic imo. this effort is a schizophrenic parody of the original material, unable to decide whether it wants to use the book as a storyboard (i.e. be exact) or just a loose guideline. some of the elements that followed the story exactly were unnecessary, even irrelevant, relatively (why follow the comedian's backstory verbatim when he's not even that important a character, at least not compared to rorshach, who got a very poorly conceived rewrite?)

the level of graphic violence also was more intended to shock and be "cutting edge from zack snyder (tm)" than it was actually necessary to the story, and that made me lose even more respect for the film, and for him.

i really wanted to like this film, and went in with really lowered expectations, considering. they focused on the wrong things imo, changed the fundamental flow of the story (at least the ending, the most important part, like changing the punchline to a joke) and then hung elements from the graphic novel on this like a christmas tree.

tbh this movie angers me more than batman 4 (batman and nipples? i forgot the name) did, and i'm -way way- more of a fan of batman than i am of watchmen.
 
Ill say one thing, the maturity level of many adults when seeing a blue penis is very low and disappointing. ITs kind of sad.

I personally loved the movie, and after just finishing the novel, I thought they did a great job. They could have dulled down the sex scenes, but its all good. ;)
 
i won't deny that, although i did set them lower than i thought i would, especially when i learned about the endgame replacement. i was totally willing to give it a chance, and went in really hoping for the best.

besides, i'm not really as much a fan ho of alan moore as i am of, say frank miller or neil gaiman.



i was all for cutting things, but there was no reason for a few of the changes/substitutions that they made that enraged me the most.



hey, i'm not rabid by-the-book guy. i loved v for vendetta, and that was -substantially- different than the graphic novel.

but with the watchmen they corrupted a few of the key concepts that showed me that they didn't "get" it for a few of the most important things. with a movie version, the plot by needs needed to be simplified, but if they had made the characters complete and true to the source material, then all else could have been forgiven, i think. they didn't.

rorshach would have -never- lost it like he did against the girl's kidnapper, and they had no reason to show him actually killing the guy. the way it was in the book was philosophical, and reflected rorshach's value structure completely. the fire was a purging, purifying thing. the dude had the option of crippling himself or being purified.

rorshach losing it and chopping the guy on the head showed me that snyder has no clue about rorshach, and -he- is the most important foil to the veidt, imo, one of the most important absolutes in the story. "never compromise".

speaking of veidt, he came across imo as weak and snivelling. i envisioned veidt as ladyhawke -ere- rutger hauer, physically, and someone of donald trump-esque presence, not some skinny nerdy know it all. his whole physical and verbal presence in the movie was wrong, and making it his idea as opposed to the old guy, mr metropolis, to form "The crimebusters/watchmen" was another element that just weakened his character that much further - the "smartest man alive" and he couldn't have figured out the truth from the start about what was needed? in the novel he was just figuring things out, but had not yet committed to any course of action. this more appropriately fit his level of development at the time.

many characters where simplified, and that's fine for movie contraints, but imo rorshach and veidt were corrupted by the filmmakers taking licence with their story, and it ruined it for me.

the whole ending thing too, was just hollywood crap. the original ending was supposed to be somewhat absurd, and unbelievable, for the simple reason that that's what would have been required in such a screwy world as the story's earth was to make the PTB change their tune and play together.

lastly, purely on simple movie terms the movie left me unsatisfied - it was not coherent, did not flow well, imo. it was a little stilted, unnecessarily, and that frustrated me as well.

tbh i almost left when rorshach went nuts on the kidnapper. i stayed til the end, though, because i still held out hope.

you know, reviewers are giving snyder props for sticking to the source material, which is ironic imo. this effort is a schizophrenic parody of the original material, unable to decide whether it wants to use the book as a storyboard (i.e. be exact) or just a loose guideline. some of the elements that followed the story exactly were unnecessary, even irrelevant, relatively (why follow the comedian's backstory verbatim when he's not even that important a character, at least not compared to rorshach, who got a very poorly conceived rewrite?)

the level of graphic violence also was more intended to shock and be "cutting edge from zack snyder (tm)" than it was actually necessary to the story, and that made me lose even more respect for the film, and for him.

i really wanted to like this film, and went in with really lowered expectations, considering. they focused on the wrong things imo, changed the fundamental flow of the story (at least the ending, the most important part, like changing the punchline to a joke) and then hung elements from the graphic novel on this like a christmas tree.

tbh this movie angers me more than batman 4 (batman and nipples? i forgot the name) did, and i'm -way way- more of a fan of batman than i am of watchmen.


Thats the longest JT post I have ever read, and its all correct.
 
While I was disappointed somewhat with a lack of many components that made Watchmen so amazing the overall product still held many of the philosophical and moral conundrums associated with super heroes and saving the world that made the graphic novel one of the greatest ever written. Standing back and looking at the big picture I have to say it is likely the best movie port you're ever going to see of Watchmen, I knew it couldn't be completely done, but I knew Snyder could come close, and he came as close as possible.
If taken with a grain of salt and with the fact in mind that the graphic novel was 12 issues long and featured several multi-layered story arcs you'll find that it is as faithful as a film can get to the original source material.

the movie does have many of the original elements that made the graphic novel so good, true.

but why corrupt rorshach ? why simplify veidt? why do what they did with doc? these characters should have been considered foundational elements to the story, to build the plot on and around, not modified and simplified and corrupted to fit some twisted plot rethink.

things they ended up doing didn't make sense in the movie - rorshach's character was ironclad in the novel, a archtype and incorruptible. by having him kill the kidnapper they wrecked this. he needed that ironclad archtype in his development to validate his willingness to die at the end of the story. without it, his sacrifice was absurd.

i do have to say that the badnews bears guy's portrayal of rorshach was excellent, given the material he had to work with. so was niteowl's, i thought. doc's was too, but let's face it, he's easy. laurie's was ... not. neither was veidt, although i only partially blame the actor for that - he was inappropriate for the role, and the role was trimmed down too much and twisted too much to suit my tastes.

i'm not one to rant, usually, but i feel like i probably am. sorry :).
 
the movie does have many of the original elements that made the graphic novel so good, true.

but why corrupt rorshach ? why simplify veidt? why do what they did with doc? these characters should have been considered foundational elements to the story, to build the plot on and around, not modified and simplified and corrupted to fit some twisted plot rethink.

things they ended up doing didn't make sense in the movie - rorshach's character was ironclad in the novel, a archtype and incorruptible. by having him kill the kidnapper they wrecked this. he needed that ironclad archtype in his development to validate his willingness to die at the end of the story. without it, his sacrifice was absurd.

i do have to say that the badnews bears guy's portrayal of rorshach was excellent, given the material he had to work with. so was niteowl's, i thought. doc's was too, but let's face it, he's easy. laurie's was ... not. neither was veidt, although i only partially blame the actor for that - he was inappropriate for the role, and the role was trimmed down too much and twisted too much to suit my tastes.

i'm not one to rant, usually, but i feel like i probably am. sorry :).

The answer to your question, JT, is that Zac Snyder couldn't win that fight with the producers.

According to some people involved in the writing of the film, Snyder wanted to do a shot-by-shot recreation, but the producers wouldn't go for it. Chaos ensued, people were fired, rehired, and at the end of the day he didn't have a choice but to listen to the money.
 
i'll sum it up another way. my wife is a pretty big fan of good sci-fi/fantasy stories. she cried when kosh saved sherridan in babylon 5, for instance. we went and saw the fellowship of the ring the day before we got married, and it became one of the rituals of our relationship, celebrating our early anniversaries by seeing two towers and rotk.

3 of her favorite movies were batman begins, v for vendetta and 300 (She's a hottie, my girl is :D ). she pulls one of these out on blu-ray and rewatches it at least once a week, amid all the other things that keep her busy in life, and she gets -teary eyes- watching them.

she's not specifically a comicbook nut like i am, she just loves well done fable-esque right-and-wrong stories, and is very open to fantasy/sci-fi environments to have those stories in.

she hated the watchmen movie. she said she didn't end up caring about -any- of the characters more than a little (she liked rorshach some but that was more on the strength of his portrayal than on the strength of the core material). she ended up not understanding the point of the story, was repulsed by the violence (and remember, she loves 300, she is definitely not afraid to see someone get chopped to bits if it is appropriate) and she hated the music.

she should have been rabid about this movie - she who never read v for vendetta but still watches the movie over and over every few weeks, she who never read a batman comic but loves batman begins enough to do the same.



she's still mad we went, because she too had high hopes.
 
The answer to your question, JT, is that Zac Snyder couldn't win that fight with the producers.

According to some people involved in the writing of the film, Snyder wanted to do a shot-by-shot recreation, but the producers wouldn't go for it. Chaos ensued, people were fired, rehired, and at the end of the day he didn't have a choice but to listen to the money.

well, that's certianly understandable, but then, i hate to say it, he should have walked. maybe in another few years it would have been done right.

the movie is like a realdoll imitation of the novel. all the eyecandy but very little of the soul, to me.

i'm just glad that alan moore isn't going to see it. if he was pissed at the other interpretations of his work, he'd be postal about this.
 
I don't know, it wasn't as bad as League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen...

I actually thought it was better than V, and 300. Don't like Snyder much as a director (too much gratuitous slow-motion and fight scenes I don't care for), but Watchmen is the best of the lot, for my money. Nowhere near the book, of course, but not much is.

Also, I dug the focus on the Comedian. He's always been the most interesting character to me.


Thirdly, it'd take a better man than Jesus to walk away from the amount of money Zac Snyder got to make Watchmen.
 
I really liked Watchmen, really did. The sex scenes were unneeded, but I like most of the rest of it. I have not read the book, and I am sure I will be disappointed in the movie after that. After I say it, I was of the opinion that it was the best graphic novel adaptation that I had seen (movie wise), then I watched V for Vendetta the next night. That opinion quickly changed.

lowsound