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Well... I guess I'm calling it quits.

#81
Like many, I go through this challenges of being in a band with a wife and kids.

Here's a couple of things I remind myself of to give me perspective:
- Bands come and go, but your family will be with you for a long time. Even if not physically, they will be in your heart and mind regardless of how positive or negative your experiences are.
- On your death bed, who do you want with you? Who will want to be there with you? Who will you have regrets over a broken relationship with? I'll bet it's not that drummer you jammed with when you got out of college. And if it is, it's because he's also your close friend, not just a drummer.
- If you're down and out, who will you lean on? If you're stranded in the middle of nowhere at 4AM, are you going to call a family member or that guy you jammed with at the open mic? If you're flat broke and need a loan or place to stay until you get back on your feet, who are you going call, your family or that guy you met on Craigslist last month?

The rule of thumb is "Make deposits into the bank that you make withdrawals from". Look at your family as a bank. You make deposits into it through affection, provision, quality time, etc. You also make withdrawals from it through wants, needs, resources, and other things. In the OP's situation, his wife is viewing the band as a withdrawal from the family bank and he's making a deposit into the band's bank. To fix the problem, he needs to either put in an equal deposit (which is often a moving target for a pissed off wife) or figure out a way for the band to take a smaller withdrawal or have the band become a deposit into the family band.

I won't say I have it down, because I still struggle with it, even though my wife is mostly supportive. But here's some things I have done.
To make a band less of a withdrawal:
- Go over the calendar with my wife the rehearsals and gigs for the month at the beginning of the month. That way she can plan around it for family time, and not get sideswiped by a gig. She also marks out important family time, so I can black out those dates from gigs. That way I don't book a gig that will inevitably begin an argument and the "priorities speech".
- I don't do bands that require lots of rehearsal. That means no more than once a week, and if I can get by with less, even better. Which means I need to have my stuff ready on my time and work with those who have their act together.
- I don't do original bands. It requires more time for creating and promoting the product that I wouldn't do either the band or my family justice.
- Try to schedule gigs and rehearsals so they don't interfere with family time, or the family schedule. I try not to book gigs for Sundays, so we have at least one day a week my wife can count on for family (well, at least until football season :D). I leave for the gig after my son is in bed, and I do my darndest to wake up in time to help out, and my wife tries to be understanding when I've come in at 3 AM and sleep in a little longer.
- Have my wife get to know the guys in the band. And if they aren't guys you want her to meet, then you shouldn't be in that band. Lots of fears of you sleeping around, getting wasted, etc. can be allayed by her meeting your band-mates. Even better, have them meet your band mates and their families.

To make the band a deposit:
- All money I make goes towards the family. The agreement made is that if I do a band, it has to contribute to the family. My wife didn't necessarily like the gigs I did in August, but she did like the money I earned that went towards my son's birthday party.
- Try to find gigs that the family can enjoy. Doing only bar gigs excludes the family from participating. My wife loves when my band does outdoor shows in the daytime, because she can get together with the family and her friends with kids and have a good time.
 
#82
jive1 said:
Excuse me, but I think this is crap.

Marriage, or any relationship for that matter requires sacrifice. Healthy relationships require understanding that it's not all about you, and that understanding requires some level of sacrifice. That means I don't sleep with my wife's friend for my jollies, take advantage of co-workers to make my job easier, or choose to do something fun when a close friend is in need. It's because the relationship matters more than what I am sacrificing.

Sorry, but everyone has needs, including you. Why be in a relationship if you aren't getting your needs met? But that would make you needy, therefore you'd suck. And kids are needy by nature, and there's no way around that. Relationships are based on needs, including the need for connection and belonging as well as practical needs. You can say that these things suck the life out of you, but for many this is the reason for living. A life with no-one who needs you is pretty empty, and leads to it's own insanity and problems.

Being a man is one thing, but a husband or parent is another thing. Being a man is standing up for yourself, but being a parent/husband is standing up for the ones you love. Being a man is about not letting people use and abuse you, but being a parent/husband is about not letting others use and abuse the ones you love. Because once you become a parent or husband, it's not all about you anymore. And it's not a bad thing, because I've never met an "it's all about me" person that was ever truly happy.

YMMV
Click to expand...

Amen.

Unless your playing is putting food on the table it takes a distant back seat to family. And even if it is your meal ticket family still comes first.

As someone else said parenting is a full time occupation - even when they're adults. I have three adult children at home - 21, 20 and 19 and they still require considerable time to parent.

I'd be willing to bet mom gave up a job she liked or hobbies to spend all her time dealing with two little ones and really is either looking for OP to meet her level of committment or to give her a break so she can get some sanity.
 
#84
Man, I hate this for you. I could tell you all sorts of things, but I think the best thing I can do for you is to tell you about my first marriage.

We met and she loved all the cool things that I did. You know, like music, martial arts, etc, ect...

Once we got married she told me she didn't like the people I associated with in the martial arts. So I stopped that.

Then she didn't like me going out playing my guitar (these where pre-bass times). She GAVE it away.

She didn't like my DJ'ing either. She sold my equipment.

She didn't even like me playing video games. She returned my game console which she had just given me for Christmas.

After sucking it up and taking it all "for the marriage" she left anyway.

It's already been said and it bears repeating...

IT'S NOT THE BASS PLAYING!!!
 
#85
jive1 said:
Like many, I go through this challenges of being in a band with a wife and kids.

Here's a couple of things I remind myself of to give me perspective:
- Bands come and go, but your family will be with you for a long time. Even if not physically, they will be in your heart and mind regardless of how positive or negative your experiences are.
- On your death bed, who do you want with you? Who will want to be there with you? Who will you have regrets over a broken relationship with? I'll bet it's not that drummer you jammed with when you got out of college. And if it is, it's because he's also your close friend, not just a drummer.
- If you're down and out, who will you lean on? If you're stranded in the middle of nowhere at 4AM, are you going to call a family member or that guy you jammed with at the open mic? If you're flat broke and need a loan or place to stay until you get back on your feet, who are you going call, your family or that guy you met on Craigslist last month?

The rule of thumb is "Make deposits into the bank that you make withdrawals from". Look at your family as a bank. You make deposits into it through affection, provision, quality time, etc. You also make withdrawals from it through wants, needs, resources, and other things. In the OP's situation, his wife is viewing the band as a withdrawal from the family bank and he's making a deposit into the band's bank. To fix the problem, he needs to either put in an equal deposit (which is often a moving target for a pissed off wife) or figure out a way for the band to take a smaller withdrawal or have the band become a deposit into the family band.
Click to expand...

The only issue I have with any of this is it assumes that the OP hasn't done what is necessary to 'deposit in the bank'. I have a wife and three kids. I coach one of my girls soccer teams. I go to every game of theirs I can. I provide all of the family funds so she can stay with the kids (her choice). I put the kids to bed every night. I do projects with the kids, and allow them to help with projects I have around the house. I cook dinner from time to time. I help the kids with school. Watch the kids so she can go out with her friends. Take the kids out so she can have time to herself at home. I took the kids to the beach for a long weekend so she could spend time at home alone. I'm there, every day, depositing in the bank.

Still she would say to me that I was giving too much time to the band. One day a week was too much. Until I just flat told her that I wasn't spending too much time in a band and I wasn't going to talk about it any more. If you're getting it done at home, at some point you need to take a stand.

EDIT:::
EdMerc said:
Then she didn't like me going out playing my guitar (these where pre-bass times). She GAVE it away.
Click to expand...

When she is getting rid of gear you use without a consult, it is time to go.
 
#86
Lots of good points here. I love playing music. If someone told me I had to hang it up, I'd question the relationship. However, some gigs/bands require A LOT of time. If you're in a relationship with someone you love, you have to take a look at what this hobby is costing you.
I was in an original band that wanted a minimum of two practices a week, at 3-4 hours a pop. I was spending a ton of time away from my girlfriend. It definitely didn't help, and I really didn't enjoy the band. It's like I was doing it, just to do it. In the end, I found a cover band that practices once a week and the practice usually tops out at 2.5 hours. It requires some homework, but I'm home, which makes her happy. We are both a lot less stressed, and this gig makes me so happy.

My advice, consider the gig and time required. As much as it pains me to say it, family comes first.
 
#87
jive1 said:
Excuse me, but I think this is crap.

Marriage, or any relationship for that matter requires sacrifice. Healthy relationships require understanding that it's not all about you, and that understanding requires some level of sacrifice. That means I don't sleep with my wife's friend for my jollies, take advantage of co-workers to make my job easier, or choose to do something fun when a close friend is in need. It's because the relationship matters more than what I am sacrificing.

Sorry, but everyone has needs, including you. Why be in a relationship if you aren't getting your needs met? But that would make you needy, therefore you'd suck. And kids are needy by nature, and there's no way around that. Relationships are based on needs, including the need for connection and belonging as well as practical needs. You can say that these things suck the life out of you, but for many this is the reason for living. A life with no-one who needs you is pretty empty, and leads to it's own insanity and problems.

Being a man is one thing, but a husband or parent is another thing. Being a man is standing up for yourself, but being a parent/husband is standing up for the ones you love. Being a man is about not letting people use and abuse you, but being a parent/husband is about not letting others use and abuse the ones you love. Because once you become a parent or husband, it's not all about you anymore. And it's not a bad thing, because I've never met an "it's all about me" person that was ever truly happy.

YMMV
Click to expand...


Very nicely said.
 
#88
If my wife ever told me she didn't want me playing, I'd hang up the wife and keep the bass.
I've been through this before with a jealous, controlling wife....and I was only playing in a P&W band at the time in a very small church with no practices. That particular lady(cough, cough) is now my ex-wife. The wonderful woman I'm now married to knows that I need my outlet and has no problem with a couple practices a week....as long as it doesn't interfere with family time, which I make sure it doesn't.
 
#89
jive1 said:
Excuse me, but I think this is crap.

Marriage, or any relationship for that matter requires sacrifice. Healthy relationships require understanding that it's not all about you, and that understanding requires some level of sacrifice. That means I don't sleep with my wife's friend for my jollies, take advantage of co-workers to make my job easier, or choose to do something fun when a close friend is in need. It's because the relationship matters more than what I am sacrificing.

Sorry, but everyone has needs, including you. Why be in a relationship if you aren't getting your needs met? But that would make you needy, therefore you'd suck. And kids are needy by nature, and there's no way around that. Relationships are based on needs, including the need for connection and belonging as well as practical needs. You can say that these things suck the life out of you, but for many this is the reason for living. A life with no-one who needs you is pretty empty, and leads to it's own insanity and problems.

Being a man is one thing, but a husband or parent is another thing. Being a man is standing up for yourself, but being a parent/husband is standing up for the ones you love. Being a man is about not letting people use and abuse you, but being a parent/husband is about not letting others use and abuse the ones you love. Because once you become a parent or husband, it's not all about you anymore. And it's not a bad thing, because I've never met an "it's all about me" person that was ever truly happy.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

Don't think it means you need to give up playing, nor should you. Neither do you necessarily have to rush to the divorce court, particularly when there are kids involved.

I only played sporadically while my kids were growing up. I had a demanding job, fights about how we shared housework, and study for both of us at different times. For me the killer was my wife is a shift worker and it made child-minding impossible. I got by with bands that were jamming, not working.

I guess I could say that her choices forced my hand, but that's life. And in the end it was worth it.
 
#90
Tough subject. After playing in bands and gigging frequently from about age 13 to age 33, after we had our second kid I put the bass down and didn't play in a band for 20+ years. No regrets - I was needed as a dad (we had a third kid too).

Then, when our youngest left for college, within a week I was back in a band and loving it. The kids are actually amazed as they didn't know this side of me, and now they do.

That said, a few weeks ago my wife was not feeling well and I was off practicing with the band. The next day she told me that she feels the band is a separate world for me that doesn't include her. She's right, although that's by her choice, not mine. But I am trying to be more aware of fitting the band in around my time with her, and I think it's going OK.
 
#91
I had an ex-wife who used to devote every bit of her jealousies and insecurities into one activity once we were married: interfering with my hobbies and interests. It is a hellish way to live and I wish the OP the best of luck. Sure, family comes first and all... but human beings need to enrich themselves in order to have a full life.
 
#92
chuck3 said:
Tough subject. After playing in bands and gigging frequently from about age 13 to age 33, after we had our second kid I put the bass down and didn't play in a band for 20+ years. No regrets - I was needed as a dad (we had a third kid too).

Then, when our youngest left for college, within a week I was back in a band and loving it. The kids are actually amazed as they didn't know this side of me, and now they do.

That said, a few weeks ago my wife was not feeling well and I was off practicing with the band. The next day she told me that she feels the band is a separate world for me that doesn't include her. She's right, although that's by her choice, not mine. But I am trying to be more aware of fitting the band in around my time with her, and I think it's going OK.
Click to expand...

My 21 year and his girlfriend came to one my gigs for the first time in February. And then my 18 year old daughter came to one for the first time 2 weeks ago. Coolest thing in the world to have your kids there. (And that was a side of me they didn't know growing up either since I stopped playing while they were little).

My bandmates and their husbands, wives, girlfriends are friends. We go out together semi regularly, go to each other's parties etc, so it really isn't a separate world.
 
#94
Gaius46 said:
My 21 year and his girlfriend came to one my gigs for the first time in February. And then my 18 year old daughter came to one for the first time 2 weeks ago. Coolest thing in the world to have your kids there. (And that was a side of me they didn't know growing up either since I stopped playing while they were little).

My bandmates and their husbands, wives, girlfriends are friends. We go out together semi regularly, go to each other's parties etc, so it really isn't a separate world.
Click to expand...

Sounds like we had similar experiences as concerns the kids coming to gigs. It's great.

However, my situation is different as concerns the band hanging out together. We do all hang out together sometimes, but my wife generally doesn't get involved. She'll come to gigs if the kids are there, which fortunately is fairly often. That said, she has a busy career of her own and she knows how much I like to play, so it generally fits together pretty well. I just have to keep my eyes open to the occasions when she may be feeling left out.
 
#95
Lots of nice people offering up advice here. A good community. All I can say is, if you are a true musician/bass player, you will never be happy with your wife if she makes you give it up. If you are a true father/husband, you will never be happy if your music causes your fam to fall apart. You have to communicate with the wife and work it out. Counseling may be the way to go. You could even print out some of the better advice given here and read it with the wife???

Anyway, take all this 5 pages of advice to heart and decide what is right for you. People have are and will continue to be musical and family men...good luck brother!
 
#96
This situation really does suck, and I surely feel bad for you. I agree with pretty much what everyone else has said, I think it's more than you playing music.

Side note, I think the only way I could marry someone, is if I was still playing music professionally, so they'd have to understand it's my job.
 
#97
Did your wife over-react? Sure, she should have waited until she was relaxed and had a calm conversation about this. She clearly went through those irrational fits that some women go through. But does that mean that she doesn't have a valid point?

I'll put this out there, my Dad is a truck driver who drives around North America for a living. I never saw him when I was a child, he missed birthdays, holidays, you name it. When I was 6, my parents got a divorce and from then on I've seen him less. Him being away from home is the main reason why my parents got a divorce. Even now, this weekend, my fiance and I had an engagement party and family members flew in from different places. My dad was in town but couldn't make it because he didn't feel like rushing to get ready after a hard day's work. Him not showing up for many moments in my life is the main reason why were aren't close today.

I've always known how important it is to be there for my family as much I can, and I've always known that the moment I have children I will stop gigging until they are at least old enough to look after themselves on some level.

You have two young children, who are constantly crying, hungry, needing diaper changes and causing a mess, you're wife needs as much help as she can get and your kids need you too.

Keep playing, never ever stop, but do you really need to gig and practice a couple of times a week? Learn to play keyboard, get a drum machine and write some songs, or play along to your favourite tunes, but be in the home for when your wife needs you.

just my opinion of course, I wish you the best in luck in whatever you decide you do. But make a rational decision and take your time with it.
 
#98
MARRIAGE

Then Almitra spoke again and said, "And what of Marriage, master?"

And he answered saying:

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.

You shall be together when white wings of death scatter your days.

Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.

But let there be spaces in your togetherness,

And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.

Love one another but make not a bond of love:

Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.

Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.

Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.

Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,

Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.

Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.

For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.

And stand together, yet not too near together:

For the pillars of the temple stand apart,

And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.
Click to expand...

Kahlil Gibran
The Prophet

MM
 

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