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+1 and contrary to what most people might think, 5 years is NOT too long. My wife and I new each other closely for 8 years before we married.
It's NOT going to always be like it was when you were dating. She's not always going to look hot and you're not always gonna be smart or funny.
Forget the "fun times" and the partying. That stuff can be enjoyed anytime. The wisest thing to do it so focus and make sure that you are compatible in your spiritual beliefs, personal and family values, and even personal tastes.
My wife and I have the same in all those areas...we even have the same tastes in food & entertainment. And guess what guys, she's good looking too!
On our wedding day
So, it's possible to get exactly what you want...if you take your time and use your head and follow your intuition. There's no rush.
Why? Because the thread was asking about gig attendance?
Read the OP again and see if you see what I saw. If you think that cheating to start a new relationship isn't going to lead to another failed relationship, then we'll have to disagree on that, my friend. The chances are greater than 1 in a million on a successful relationship started under those conditions.
So the point of my (perhaps too short) answer is adultery in a relationship or as a starting point of a relationship will more often than not lead to divorce (or in the latter case, another divorce). Feel free to disagree; I don't hold grudges. I'm not specifically judging individuals either; I'm just trying to look at the situation realistically and compare it against common sense and wisdom.
A "pending" divorce is no more a divorce than a "pending" house sale or "pending" record deal. It's like using the toilet, it ain't done 'til all the paperwork is done. Pending isn't complete.
Now you can choose to disagree with me and I don't mind. We're just sharing opinions here; but my opinion comes from the mouth of
My therapist told me that he participated in a comprehensive study on divorce which found that at in at least 60% of divorces, one of the partners suffers from Borderline or Narcissistic Personality disorder (BPD/NPD). And most of the time the diagnosis is never made officially or shared with the couple. It is estimated that 17 million people in the US are suffers, and their disorders affect at least 3 times as many wives, children and other family members.
That has nothing to do with my statement
Youre painting the OP of that thread in a very negative light, insinuating that she was cheating on her partner while their marriage was still active, I was in no way able to infer this with the provided information.
I have to respectfully disagree with this statement in regards to a divorce. While youre correct that a pending divorce is not finalized, it in no way means that the relationship to her husband is not over.
Now you can choose to disagree with me and I don't mind. We're just sharing opinions here; but my opinion comes from the mouth of"]Jesus[/URL]. According to that, the only legit grounds for divorce is adultery. If you divorce for any other reason, you cause the wife to be guity of adultery. Also, marrying a divorced woman is adultery in the sight of God. So there's no way out of this, Biblically speaking it's adultery from any angle you look at it. You may choose not to believe that, and I'm cool with that. I'm just sharing what my opinion if based on.
And while youre most definitely entitled to your opinion on the subject, as well as your beliefs, I feel one should respect that not everyone lives their lives according to the same gospel. Youre calling the OP an adulterer, and according to your beliefs she may be, but some opinions should be kept in check, especially those that cast others in such a light, as your post almost comes across as malicious.
divorce is caused by many things, but mostly i think it is lack of effort to solve problems and close rifts. i'm a believer that you can make this work with almost anyone, but you have to be willing to compromise on some things and make the effort to solve problems that arise. and part of that is taking responsibility for your actions rather than automatically blaming the problems on the other person. more than likely, you contributed as well.
one of the biggest preventers imo: don't hold gruges or grievances against the other person. if you have a problem, talk it out, not necessarily immediately, but soon. and do so in a way that doesn't place blame or accuse, just explain what you feel and why.
and i think part of the problem is that we have a magical view of what marriage will be like, that it will all be perfect and there won't be problems, because it's marriage and you're in love, right? but that's not reality, reality is that problems will arise and you have to put in the effort to solve them, and people don't want to deal with that. they want their magical view of what marriage is like, and probably will realize too late that it doesn't exist.
one of the biggest preventers imo: don't hold gruges or grievances against the other person. if you have a problem, talk it out, not necessarily immediately, but soon. and do so in a way that doesn't place blame or accuse, just explain what you feel and why.
and i think part of the problem is that we have a magical view of what marriage will be like, that it will all be perfect and there won't be problems, because it's marriage and you're in love, right? but that's not reality, reality is that problems will arise and you have to put in the effort to solve them, and people don't want to deal with that. they want their magical view of what marriage is like, and probably will realize too late that it doesn't exist.
Well, sometimes it's the complete opposite way. If you spend too much quality time together and not enough with "third parties" you run the risk of getting fed up with each other and feeling that you're beeing hindered from exploring your own interests and needs.
It's just not a very cut'n'dry issue, and first you need to discuss the underlying presumption that "sticking to it" has merit. When there are children involved then certainly. Otherwise I'm not so sure. Marriage as a concept has value primarily as a religious/social construct that we have been taught is so valuable that we should endure hard times in order to keep the marriage going.
Historically it has served two distinct purposes: To ensure a framework where children are cared for and fed, and to form allegiances between families/tribes/clans.
The first is still quite valid, the second not so much, at least not where I live.
However, since 2001 I am married with children to a woman I love dearly. We decided to formalize it because there are certain legal aspects pertaining to the eventuality that one of us should die when we have children. The year after we celebrated it publicly because we like a big party.
But in the end, it's not the marriage that is important to us, it's the love we have for each other and our children that is both the driving force and ultimate goal of our relationship.
We haven't really had much in the way of hard times in the 13 years we've lived together. That's partly because we share so much values, and partly because we have always understood that we are two separate persons with needs, desires and preferences that do not always converge. So we've always taken the time to bring those differences to the surface and work them out or accept them before they were allowed to lurk beneath the surface and poison our lives.
Communication is the key in every working relationship!
My father was committing adultery early in his marriage with my mom but it took them 20 years to divorce and man was it a nasty divorce. I was born the last kid, about 5 years after their wedding, and I was 15 then.
From what I understand, my mom had a boyfriend since "nothing" was happening anymore.
My dad? Figure that one out: he had "wife" B, with house "B", and son "B". I was 15 when I discovered all of that and realized I had a 10-year old half-brother. And it's my mother who told me, my dad did not have the gonads to tell me.
Now how screwed up is that?
I think my parents should have called it quit a lot earlier than they did, because they ended up with more to split and it was a big messy divorce.
I know adultery broke their marriage, but it was just the trigger. The relationship was on the rocks early on, and they got married in the 60s, when usually people married the first person they dated, a bit like buying the first car you test drive or hiring the first person you interview.
Often people are just too young, do not share enough, have differences in opinion, or one has a hobby, the other one does not. My wife has had a hard time dealing with all my hobbies. And yes, I share burden in the house.
Marriage counselors sort of help, but their solutions are always cookie cutter and do not address what's at the core of the issue.
Sometimes it's just time to move on. Kids, house, shared accounts and debts are always something to deal with intelligently. I wish my parents would have been a bit more adult.
From what I understand, my mom had a boyfriend since "nothing" was happening anymore.
My dad? Figure that one out: he had "wife" B, with house "B", and son "B". I was 15 when I discovered all of that and realized I had a 10-year old half-brother. And it's my mother who told me, my dad did not have the gonads to tell me.
Now how screwed up is that?
I think my parents should have called it quit a lot earlier than they did, because they ended up with more to split and it was a big messy divorce.
I know adultery broke their marriage, but it was just the trigger. The relationship was on the rocks early on, and they got married in the 60s, when usually people married the first person they dated, a bit like buying the first car you test drive or hiring the first person you interview.
Often people are just too young, do not share enough, have differences in opinion, or one has a hobby, the other one does not. My wife has had a hard time dealing with all my hobbies. And yes, I share burden in the house.
Marriage counselors sort of help, but their solutions are always cookie cutter and do not address what's at the core of the issue.
Sometimes it's just time to move on. Kids, house, shared accounts and debts are always something to deal with intelligently. I wish my parents would have been a bit more adult.
As the child of multiple divorces (mom 3, dad 2), and having been married 11 years, I thought I would comment.
People change, but at 20 something you don't realize or account for it. People have different ways of doing things, neither right nor wrong, just different. No matter how much time you spend with somebody, you will never be able to learn everything about them.
To my mind, a factor in many divorces is the inability to "do business." To resolve the daily issues. Who's house for Thanksgiving? How much emphasis to put on gender roles with the child. How to dress the child. We work things out, pretty well most of the time.
An example of change: Out of nowhere, I have the opportunity to pursue an opportunity in fine art photography. My wife is saying "go for it." And I am. I thought she would freak out, but she didn't.
I should add that I married older, 37 years old. I asked her to marry me on the anniversary of our first date. 6 months later, we got married. My Uncle proposed to his wife the day they met, and they are still married, to each other.
The universe is a weird place. I enjoy it.
edg
People change, but at 20 something you don't realize or account for it. People have different ways of doing things, neither right nor wrong, just different. No matter how much time you spend with somebody, you will never be able to learn everything about them.
To my mind, a factor in many divorces is the inability to "do business." To resolve the daily issues. Who's house for Thanksgiving? How much emphasis to put on gender roles with the child. How to dress the child. We work things out, pretty well most of the time.
An example of change: Out of nowhere, I have the opportunity to pursue an opportunity in fine art photography. My wife is saying "go for it." And I am. I thought she would freak out, but she didn't.
I should add that I married older, 37 years old. I asked her to marry me on the anniversary of our first date. 6 months later, we got married. My Uncle proposed to his wife the day they met, and they are still married, to each other.
The universe is a weird place. I enjoy it.
edg
Words of Wisdom, IMO...
Communication is a huge causal factor. Couples not talking to each other honestly, and lacking a sincere interest toward very-often putting the other person-ahead of themselves. What about me? Poppycock. There's plenty of couples where both, or at least one person are too self-cented and selfish for a great marriage to be fostered. Personally, in the areas where I'm demanding of her, it seems to be more about morals, standards of fair behavior, and working toward a loving relationship that is more two-sided than one person giving their all, and receiving too little in return.
Arguments don't have to escalate to shouting matches, they really do not! When couples are not willing to calm down and talk about what is really bothering them, or the other person is not interested-this is a big crack that need to be repaired. Conflict resolution is a biggie!
Kissing and making up? Whenever we are getting sideways about something, I remind her that if she doesn't quit, she'll have to kiss and make up. This comment most often brings a smile to her face, and strange cooing sounds. Plenty of couples don't seem to know how to kiss and make up on a regular basis-like two mature, loving people! My better half wants to kiss me in front of other people (we're well past 20), and she's bad about that-I like that!
Divorce is about two people choosing to not work together on things. If there's constant strife OR me, me, me in a dating relationship, look out!
Communication is a huge causal factor. Couples not talking to each other honestly, and lacking a sincere interest toward very-often putting the other person-ahead of themselves. What about me? Poppycock. There's plenty of couples where both, or at least one person are too self-cented and selfish for a great marriage to be fostered. Personally, in the areas where I'm demanding of her, it seems to be more about morals, standards of fair behavior, and working toward a loving relationship that is more two-sided than one person giving their all, and receiving too little in return.
Arguments don't have to escalate to shouting matches, they really do not! When couples are not willing to calm down and talk about what is really bothering them, or the other person is not interested-this is a big crack that need to be repaired. Conflict resolution is a biggie!
Kissing and making up? Whenever we are getting sideways about something, I remind her that if she doesn't quit, she'll have to kiss and make up. This comment most often brings a smile to her face, and strange cooing sounds. Plenty of couples don't seem to know how to kiss and make up on a regular basis-like two mature, loving people! My better half wants to kiss me in front of other people (we're well past 20), and she's bad about that-I like that!
Divorce is about two people choosing to not work together on things. If there's constant strife OR me, me, me in a dating relationship, look out!
My girlfriend and I, plus our friend Christian (who regularly hangs out with the 2 of us) have been dubbed PDA & The 3rd Wheel. We dont mind.
Sometimes it can be one of the persons unwilling.
Either way, I think you have other good points.
It's give & take and requires work.
What good thing in life is easy?
Dave
Also "forever (...til death do us part)" is longer now since life expectancy is longer making it more difficult for two people to stay together for such a long period.
I believe that people have gotten more impatient since the pace of things has increased because of technology.
Everything, including the solutions to most problems is supposed to be just a mouse click away.
I believe that people have gotten more impatient since the pace of things has increased because of technology.
Everything, including the solutions to most problems is supposed to be just a mouse click away.
How's that working for you now? Layoffs by the millions, cutting pensions/health insurance, outsourcing, more work hours just to hold your job.
All companies are only concerned about their survival, not yours. I guess selfishness is the American way.
I should know better but here goes...
You can explain divorces with personal, social or societal factors. If one wishes to ground their opinions on fact, not impressions and dogmatic pronouncements, it would serve them well to study even the minutest amounts of popularized social sciences. i.e. how does the psyche of a human being actually work? (see, I don't even ask you to read the textbook for psych or sociology 101?)
We can go with an economical model: 'if I perceive continuing this marriage to yielding me less Utility than divorcing would, I divorce' where U == aggregate of monetary, emotional, cognitive and social goods I see myself likely to receive.
Or identity:'I am/am not a person who will stick with it no matter what, because it's important to me to stay together/it's better for both of our wellbeing in the long run'
Or psychology of drives: in this case, person A's drives towards a new mate or a career choice that doesn't fit well with having a family outweigh the drive towards staying with their current mate and avoidance of social stigma and emotional suffering.
Or whatever you will. The point being that today it is not a valid explanation if one pronounces a value-laden one-word non-explanation for a complex behaviour. Especially religious explanations should be treated with utmost scepticism - why? Combine common-sense thinking with disrespect for empiricism with power structure and identity-work by the proclaimer and the social group in question... And there's not much chance at arriving at anything approaching an explanation.
You can explain divorces with personal, social or societal factors. If one wishes to ground their opinions on fact, not impressions and dogmatic pronouncements, it would serve them well to study even the minutest amounts of popularized social sciences. i.e. how does the psyche of a human being actually work? (see, I don't even ask you to read the textbook for psych or sociology 101?)
We can go with an economical model: 'if I perceive continuing this marriage to yielding me less Utility than divorcing would, I divorce' where U == aggregate of monetary, emotional, cognitive and social goods I see myself likely to receive.
Or identity:'I am/am not a person who will stick with it no matter what, because it's important to me to stay together/it's better for both of our wellbeing in the long run'
Or psychology of drives: in this case, person A's drives towards a new mate or a career choice that doesn't fit well with having a family outweigh the drive towards staying with their current mate and avoidance of social stigma and emotional suffering.
Or whatever you will. The point being that today it is not a valid explanation if one pronounces a value-laden one-word non-explanation for a complex behaviour. Especially religious explanations should be treated with utmost scepticism - why? Combine common-sense thinking with disrespect for empiricism with power structure and identity-work by the proclaimer and the social group in question... And there's not much chance at arriving at anything approaching an explanation.
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
My wife and I were together for 6 years (5 of which we were living together), before getting married. She put up with alot of crap from me in the beginning, before we were married, from my drug usage. I knew she was marriage material after the first 2 years, so keeping that in mind and a will to be the person I knew I wanted to be, I went to rehab, I have not looked back ever since. I do not know what makes a marriage work, however, I know what makes my marriage work and it is a team effort. Without a team effort I know my marriage would fail, but it's not all sunshine and farts all the time, we do sacrifice things for each other, so it's never been a "one way street". Using a single person's mentality will never work in a marriage
Simply put, love is a sequence of associated good memories that we attach to a significant other. When the bad memories outweigh the good memories to a certain point there's no turning back. Whether that's one large bad memory, or a million little ones, at that point the relationship cannot survive, and very rarely tips back the other way. If you see that your relationship is going there, save the drama and pain and know when to call it.
