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What happened to funk?

#381
DWBass said:
I will say that in their current incarnation, they are not a funk band but when they started, they were absolutely a progressive funk band with jazz & world music influences! They can still bring it though!
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They have always been a great recording band,I'm not sure how they sound live or how they sounded live back in the day.
 
#382
FilterFunk said:
You most likely won't care, bluewine, but I've got to revoke your "Defender of the Funk" card after your last several posts. I get that some folks view funk as being super-tight with little or no synths or effects, but EWF, P-Funk and the Bar-Kays didn't play funk?! As someone else in this thread put it, funk can be tight or loose. James Brown knew it, which is why he did funk jams as tight as "Superbad" and as loose as "Make It Funky." And "loose" doesn't mean sloppy; it just means that funk doesn't have to be as sharp as TOP's "What Is Hip". Is "Dr. Funkenstein" not funk? The Bar-Kays' "Holy Ghost" (the are a couple of different versions; I'm talking about the one that came out around '77-'78, with the timbale-featured breakdown) isn't funk to you? George Clinton's a joke whose unworthy to hang out with Sly Stone?! Sly doesn't seem to think so. I can understand not digging the elaborate stage show, but so many mid-to-late '70s P-Funk tracks too numerous to mention were not just funky; they were, indeed, The Funk! The mid-to-late '70s bands didn't dilute funk; they expanded the possibilities of what funk could be.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you and admittedly there are some flaws in my position.

I wish sly would hang out with his brother pastor Freddie Stuart in church instead of with George. For obvious reasons.
 
#383
DWBass said:
I will say that in their current incarnation, they are not a funk band but when they started, they were absolutely a progressive funk band with jazz & world music influences! They can still bring it though!
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I'd say that they're currently the product of of their many musical meanderings over the years. As for their origins, I'm sure YOU remember Sweet Sweetback... ;)
 
#384
bass12 said:
I'd say that they're currently the product of of their many musical meanderings over the years. As for their origins, I'm sure YOU remember Sweet Sweetback... ;)
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I do, they did the sound track and I think they did it for next to nothing as Melvin van peebles didn't have much of a budget for the film.

I think bill Cosby gave him a good chunk of change
 
#387
bassinplace said:
Kinda like Kool & The Gang. Super funky when they started out. Not sure what happened there.
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There was immense pressure on the parts of record labels during the late 70s and early 80s where "black" acts were concerned to produce radio-friendly material. After the disco backlash most radio stations didn't want to touch black music (and neither did MTV). Kool & The Gang were basically doing what they needed to do in order to stay afloat.
 
#388
bass12 said:
There was immense pressure on the parts of record labels during the late 70s and early 80s where "black" acts were concerned to produce radio-friendly material. After the disco backlash most radio stations didn't want to touch black music (and neither did MTV). Kool & The Gang were basically doing what they needed to do in order to stay afloat.
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Exactly.
 
#389
bluewine said:
Trust me, he was very controlling and really worked alone in the studio most of the time.
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Seriously?
:hmm:

Sorry but I need more than that so I can't just "trust you". I don't even know if you realize what you're saying. 99% of the recordings means that we didn't hear Larry Graham on more than maybe one Sly & the Family Stone song. On face value alone that is utterly ridiculous so if you have ANY proof beside "I am proof that what I'm saying is true because I'm an expert" please provide it. It'll be huge news in the bass world. Right up there with the Jamerson and Carol Kaye stuff.

Most people don't even realize how few bassists actually sound like Larry Graham. I'm not talking slapping, I'm talking about the very particular way his slapping sounded. Now you're saying that just about all of that was Sly which means Graham must've copied the crap out of him or taught him extremely well because Graham still sounded the same when he moved on to GCS.

So don't drag this out any further, provide the proof that you say is out there.
 
#391
D.M.N. said:
Alright, I just read this whole thread. Interesting stuff. Can't say I'm as big an aficionado of Funk as some people on here, but I like Funk and funky music. Lots of the posted material has been cool, I've enjoyed listening to it, and I've enjoyed reading a lot of the posts, been pretty informative. I wasn't there, I didn't grow up with this music, I'll admit that. However, what has been said over the last few pages, especially from Bluewine, is absolutely absurd. Sly & The Family Stone were absolutely funk, maybe proto-Funk, but in what way can you deny Sing a Simple Song or You Can Make it if You Try or Thank You weren't the early beginnings of the genre. The Bar-Kays? How is Too Hot To Stop not funk? E,W,&F? How is Shining Star not funk? What of Brick by Dazz?Seeing as I'm younger, I guess some of my perception of funk is probably "diluted" by Disco and by funky R&B, but some of what has been said here completely contradicts what I know and what I was taught (I just took a course on the history of popular musics from the 30s-80s, all these bands were defined as Funk). What about say Billy Preston's Struttin'? Flashlight or Give up the Funk by P-Funk are totally Funk. Would you consider the Temptations Shakey Ground Funk, or just funky? And if not Funk, would you simply classify it as funky R&B? If that's the case, then where is the distinction made between funky R&B and Funk? This is what I really want to know, partially just for my own knowledge. How do you define Funk, what are it's characteristics that determine if a song is Funk or simply funky R&B?



Again the question arises, how are you defining Funk? What is it that makes something Funk or just funky. But the real reason I quoted this is because of the bolded part. Excuse me? How are they mocking, not just Funk, but Black people? They don't appear to be any form of minstrel show to me. They seem like musicians playing music and fully enjoying themselves. Are they mocking Funk with the costumes and the show they put on? Because to me, that's a big side of Funk: the showmanship. Ridiculous stage attire, nearly bombastic performances. Mind you, that's not necessary to qualify something as funk, but it was an element that was greatly integrated with the Funk genre. So please, whether you think they're Funk or not, I'd like to know your reasoning behind saying they're mocking Funk and Black people.
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I got the same impression as bluewine when I watched that Mummies clip. It has a very Amos and Andy vibe to me. Like people who aren't Black doing their impression of what they think stereotypical Black people act like.
:hmm:

Here's the opposite of that IMO:


I could be wrong but I get the impression that these are folks who genuinely love James Brown. They're not clowning him and it comes through in their music.
 
#392
bass12 said:
There was immense pressure on the parts of record labels during the late 70s and early 80s where "black" acts were concerned to produce radio-friendly material. After the disco backlash most radio stations didn't want to touch black music (and neither did MTV). Kool & The Gang were basically doing what they needed to do in order to stay afloat.
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Sad. Their material was really strong early on and then just kinda disintegrated.
 
#397
Brad Johnson said:
Seriously?
:hmm:

Sorry but I need more than that so I can't just "trust you". I don't even know if you realize what you're saying. 99% of the recordings means that we didn't hear Larry Graham on more than maybe one Sly & the Family Stone song. On face value alone that is utterly ridiculous so if you have ANY proof beside "I am proof that what I'm saying is true because I'm an expert" please provide it. It'll be huge news in the bass world. Right up there with the Jamerson and Carol Kaye stuff.

Most people don't even realize how few bassists actually sound like Larry Graham. I'm not talking slapping, I'm talking about the very particular way his slapping sounded. Now you're saying that just about all of that was Sly which means Graham must've copied the crap out of him or taught him extremely well because Graham still sounded the same when he moved on to GCS.

So don't drag this out any further, provide the proof that you say is out there.
Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure I can prove it. If I find any documentation I'll let you know.

I may have been way off on the 99 %. Larry probably played most of the bass parts on the first couple of albums. Whole new thing, dance to the music, life and maybe stand.

The trade make style Larry plays with gcs seems way different than what he was doing with sly to me.
 
#398
bluewine said:
Well, I am not sure I can prove it. If I find any documentation I'll let you know.

I may have been way off on the 99 %. Larry probably played most of the bass parts on the first couple of albums. Whole new thing, dance to the music, life and maybe stand.

The trade make style Larry plays with gcs seems way different than what he was doing with sly to me.
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You are already contradicting yourself.
 
#399
bluewine said:
They have always been a great recording band,I'm not sure how they sound live or how they sounded live back in the day.
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Sorry... then how could you call yourself an expert?
:)

"Last Days and Times" with "Power" came out in the very early 70's. How did you miss that?

Back then they were an amazing live band, before the pyro and miming started.
 

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