What has fender done? ? ?

[Flaked Beans]

I bought this bass from guitar center (last november) for $800 bucks:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Darnell Jones]

"Lack of skilled engineers"?? At what point in the manufacturing process are engineers involved?? The iphone was designed in the US by US engineers. It is manufactured in China to keep costs low.

Hey, bring it up with Steve Jobs, engineers are required in manufacturing.

You want to see a "gig quality" bass for $300 - sure, I'll do it. Just find me employees that will work for $38.00 a week.

In other words you can't do it and the Chinese can. You can also have high quality stuff made in China, they're not genetically restricted to just low end stuff. The computer you're using now for example.

 

[Darnell Jones]

Peavey used to, as recently as the 1990's, before outsourcing mania and competitive pressures forced them to use overseas manufacturers.

Victims of the american consumer

 

[Ben Noblit]

"ok quality and good price" are not the reasons China is an economic power. Those are the results of a ruthless and aggressive agenda towards business and trade by the PRC. The parallels between today's China and 1980's Japan are very few. Japan's wages were 1/4 of US wages at the time. China's wages are 1/30th of US wages. China is run by a communist government. Unlike Japan, Chinese workers have no rights and can not vote. Japan ran it's industry on efficiency, China runs it's industry by cheap labor.

True. Couple points though. The PRC's domestic agenda towards business and trade is almost a contradiction in terms, as they use a hands-off policy towards anything that makes money. Also, I happen to think that China's cheap labor is more an outgrowth of its enormous population rather than a deliberate policy of its communist government.

 

[soulman969]

I can see squires being made in china, because that's there purpose, to be affordable. Fenders are supposed to be professional level basses, that's why I've always wanted one but I just lost some respect, maybe I'll go for a stingray instead.

Um, so are Squiers Winston. I've been playing MIA Jazz Basses on stage since the 60's and the Squier I own is every bit as good a player as any of them and I haven't scraped off the logo and replaced it with one that says Fender either.

 

[Growly Lytes]

They must have realized that people are superficial and automatically think that Squier=Bad and Fender=Good (and they treat this "fact" as Gospel Truth)... so... they just started putting the FENDER decal on their overseas guitars... because people don't care how it sounds or where it's from as long as it says Fender and not Squier, LOL!

Pure genius. They should have been doing that all along.

Thats it right there matey.

 

[pnut166]

Fender has filed for an IPO, which will make it a public company. That means shareholders, and minimum labor costs.

IMO, we have little time left. All of their stuff will be made in China or Asia eventually.
There is however, a huge USA supply left. Expect a bit of hype concerning this, and be ready to pay more for American Fender as the months progress.

Just my $0.02.

I don`t think US - made will go away, but I do think they will go up in price, production will scale back, and a cachet will be created with them even more so than now. Much like Harley did when they went public. I do think the US instruments being made now will go up in value as production slips both in quantity AND quality. In many ways, we are getting ready to repeat the CBS era all over again, I`m afraid.

 

[Rockbobmel]

FROM WIKI--

Pride is an inwardly directed emotion that carries two common meanings. With a negative connotation, pride refers to an inflated sense of one's personal status or accomplishments, often used synonymously with hubris. With a positive connotation, pride refers to a satisfied sense of attachment toward one's own or another's choices and actions, or toward a whole group of people, and is a product of praise, independent self-reflection, or a fulfilled feeling of belonging. Philosophers and social psychologists have noted that pride is a complex secondary emotion which requires the development of a sense of self and the mastery of relevant conceptual distinctions (e.g., that pride is distinct from happiness and joy) through language-based interaction with others.[1] Some social psychologists identify it as linked to a signal of high social status.[2] In contrast pride could also be defined as a disagreement with the truth. One definition of pride in the first sense comes from St. Augustine: "the love of one's own excellence".[3] In this sense, the opposite of pride is either humility or guilt; the latter in particular being a sense of one's own failure in contrast to Augustine's notion of excellence.
Pride is sometimes viewed as excessive or as a vice, sometimes as proper or as a virtue. While some philosophers such as Aristotle (and George Bernard Shaw) consider pride a profound virtue, some world religions consider it a sin, such as the Old Testament of the Bible used by Christians and Jews, in Proverbs 11:2.
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, proud comes from late Old English prut, probably from Old French prud "brave, valiant" (11th century) (which became preux in French), from Late Latin term prodis "useful", which is compared with the Latin prodesse "be of use".[4] The sense of "having a high opinion of oneself", not in French, may reflect the Anglo-Saxons' opinion of the Norman knights who called themselves "proud", like the French knights preux.[citation needed]
When viewed as a virtue, pride in one's appearance and abilities is known as virtuous pride, greatness of soul or magnanimity, but when viewed as a vice it is often termed vanity or vainglory. Pride can also manifest itself as a high opinion of one's nation (national pride) and ethnicity (ethnic pride).

 

[sotua]

Why not get rid of the Squier brand? I think people would pay $50 to $100 dollars more to have the Fender name on the headstock anyway.

No kidding. Repackage the Vintage Modified line as "Fender Classic Vintage Reissue Yadda Yadda" and *boom* instant extra profits.

 

[Batmensch]

No kidding. Repackage the Vintage Modified line as "Fender Classic Vintage Reissue Yadda Yadda" and *boom* instant extra profits.

That would only work if they didn't consequently raise the prices just becsuse of the Fender name (which I'd be willing to bet is exactly what they'd do)

 

[audiomitch]

"I am offering this bass at a discounted price of $1519 including the standard black molded RIC hard shell case, but not shipping costs."

North Coast Music inquiry email. At present, they are sold out of all 4003's.

Note the word "discount". They are likely using them as a loss-leader.

dis·count
verb \ˈdis-ˌkau̇nt, dis-ˈ\
transitive verb
1
a : to make a deduction from usually for cash or prompt payment <a discounted price> b : to sell or offer for sale at a discount <discounting last year's model>


I'd be interested if those are last year's models they're trying (err...have accomplished the want) to off. MF price matches them only because they say they will. They probably end up taking a loss-leader on account of that as well - but they're huge, so they don't care much (they don't sell that many Rics, and the price-match is likely a portion of an already-small number).

Going rate is not a discounted rate. Whether the discounted rate is an hour, day, week, or 6 months. Going rate is the going rate - which, according to Ebay buyers (which is a very hearty indicator of going rate), is closer to $1700-1750. It's nice one can get a Ric for $1500-$1600 but that doesn't mean the dealer is making squat.

Do you usually buy everything at full retail? Of course they claim it's "discounted", so does Musicians Friend at $2k! The fact remains that there are several authorized Ric dealers who sell 4003s every day at $1600. These are fully warranted, brand new instruments. Not some eBay auction. These have been at this price for YEARS. It is NOT some special sale. I guess I have to just repeat that over and over. IT'S NOT A SPECIAL SALE. IT'S THE EVERYDAY PRICE.

Whatever their profit margin is isn't my concern. I don't care. Why would anyone care how much the store is making?

 

[smcd]

Hey, bring it up with Steve Jobs, engineers are required in manufacturing.

It's a little late to bring up anything with Steve Jobs. Engineers aren't "required" in day to day manufacturing. Once a product leaves the engineering stage and enters the production stage, an engineers job is done. That is unless you're using the term "engineer" loosely.

Do you think you could provide Jobs' quote for me? Somehow I think you've been confused.

In other words you can't do it and the Chinese can. You can also have high quality stuff made in China, they're not genetically restricted to just low end stuff. The computer you're using now for example.

No, what I'm saying is I CAN do it. All I need is slave labor and no interference from pesky gummint agencies like OSHA and the EPA and the NLRA. So let's you and me burn the Constitution and take away everyone's rights, health and happiness so you can buy a $300 bass guitar.

 

[sotua]

That would only work if they didn't consequently raise the prices just becsuse of the Fender name (which I'd be willing to bet is exactly what they'd do)

They could and would - and if they didn't go overboard with it, it would work perfectly. So now instead of getting a Squier Vintage Modified Jazz, you can the same bass badged as a Fender Reissue Vibed Classic Vintage for US$100 more. What you gonna do? Buy a Squier? Nopes, no more Squier VMs for you. Buy my Fender RVCV Jazz for 400 or GTFO.

The key here is that there really isn't AFAIK any competition for the VMs in that price range with that quality. Therefore, Fender could pull that stuff. If there was another brand putting basses as good as the VMs in the same price range, then yes, they'd price themselves out of that niche.

 

[bassplayer8953]

It's a little late to bring up anything with Steve Jobs. Engineers aren't "required" in day to day manufacturing. Once a product leaves the engineering stage and enters the production stage, an engineers job is done. That is unless you're using the term "engineer" loosely.

Actually, engineers are assigned to production floors: to study/invent/reinvent ways to be more efficient. (My son is an engineer for Caterpillar, and he is, at times, assigned to this phase of production) Of course, when you pay $2 a day for workers (Apple, not Cat), re-inventing the wheel must not be a huge priority...

No, what I'm saying is I CAN do it. All I need is slave labor and no interference from pesky gummint agencies like OSHA and the EPA and the NLRA. So let's you and me burn the Constitution and take away everyone's rights, health and happiness so you can buy a $300 bass guitar.

+1 That's the whole point. The playing field is not level. No, you won't build basses at a profit, in the USA, that retail for $300. The question is: do the cheapo's really need $300 basses, or does the US need more well-paying jobs? For the record, I own several $300-range basses, which I bought for s%^ts & giggles, a couple of which are even made in China. Do I need them? They could be gone in a heartbeat...no biggie. The larger issue: better jobs and a better economy in the US...is 10,000 times more important.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I personally have lost a job to overseas outsourcing. I make every effort to buy USA made everything. It is a very difficult row to hoe. You simply can not find a domestically made computer. The best you can do is find one made in Taiwan or Korea.
Basses, amps.
No problem. Musicman Stingray, Mesa Boogie.
Now I go drive my made in America, Japanese car to work.

 

[lucas vigor]

For some reason, I only know Americans who practice this kind of really weird patriotism. Is "being a loyal American" the only reason you try to by American made products exclusively? Or do you actually think that stuff with "made in USA" on it is automatically better stuff? Have you ever heard a Chinese man say "I only buy Squier 'cause they're made in China, all the American stuff is crap"? No, because most people know that not everything that's made in the USA is automatically fantastic. Some examples: cars, beer, records, and indeed guitars. You may like it or not, but my Danish-built bass and my Japan-built bass will probably outshine many American instruments.

Or am I now a non-loyal Dutchman? Should I only buy real Gouda cheese, Heineken beer and tulips?

Yes to both. I show my loyalty by buying American when possible, and I also believe that because some products (Cars, Blue jeans, Rock and roll electric instruments) were designed here, that we have traditionally produced the best.

And I am not some typical conservative american at all. I am a liberal that knows that "gouda" is pronounced more like "How-da" then it is "goo-da", and furthermore, when I buy it, I buy it at a Dutch/indonesian store near my house and it is imported. To say that anything other then Dutch Gouda is superior is to be insane.

show some pride, man.

 

[autodidact]

I don't know about you guys, but I hate my non-American Hartke 3500, Squier Bronco, Squier Jag and Tribute L2500. The only reason I use them is because I use a Mesa cab which pumps out enough bassy patriotism to end the recession.
#sarcasm

It comes down to the quality of the instrument, not the country of origin. A Squier CV P is what, $300 for a quality instrument? I'd LOVE to know how much Fender USA puts into an actual P-bass to charge upwards of a grand. Where the extra $700+ coming from? That's an expensive headstock decal.
Personally, I can't afford to buy American. Car payments, student loans and various insurances take most of my money.
I drink Candian beer, I play import instruments, I drive a Toyota, and I love me some pork fried rice. But I also love my country, I'm proud of who I am and where I'm from...I already give Uncle Sam enough money, I dont think I should hand out the little o have for an equal or sometimes inferior product just because its "Made in the USA"

#.02

 

[lucas vigor]

Most decent upright basses cost well over 3000 dollars (even for some chinese ones). How much do you think they really cost to build? (materials, time, etc) Probably not much.

MIA Fenders are excellent basses, well worth the 1000 they cost. Their price really has not gone up since they were invented 60 years ago.


Enjoy your Squires and SXs and all that stuff. I won't.

I can't always afford to buy pure American, but when I can...I do. Being patriotic has to be more then lip service and bumper stickers.

 

[los100malditos]

IM NOT PATRIOTIC BUT

My 2011 american standard precision bass really kicks asses, ... i tried them all at the shop, (exept the deluxe american cause i only wanted the traditional passive split pickup) and can really tell that the all the low cost ... american or foreign Fender products line were progresively sounding worst ... no matter the fact that this one does not dramatic looses its value. It´s my baby now and if i have to keep only just one bass in the world, it would be this one. i hope someday give this bass to my son.

I used to have a MIM precision bass wich i changed the pickup cause i have at home a seymour duncan quarter pound pickup, and wanted more hot output for the bass, (not bad sound at all but not the great either) i sold it because the new 2011 american standard precision bass had all i wanted in a bass.

Prior the Fenders there was my other baby ... an active EMG Steinberger Synapse made in korea, which kicks asses too and can have any desired tone ... due it&#347; weight, size and tone its my main now, but i swap them for gigs an rehersals from time to time.

THE POINT IS ... IF IT SOUNDS GOOD, GET THE DAMN THING AND PLAY IT

 

[smcd]

It comes down to the quality of the instrument, not the country of origin. A Squier CV P is what, $300 for a quality instrument? I'd LOVE to know how much Fender USA puts into an actual P-bass to charge upwards of a grand. Where the extra $700+ coming from? That's an expensive headstock decal.

Ok... this is the last time I'm going to point this out.....


The average manufacturing wage in China is 80¢ per hour. The average manufacturing wage in Corona CA is $17 per hour. THAT'S 21 TIMES the wage a factory worker makes in China. Add benefits on top of the $17 hourly rate and you have $28 per hour. THAT'S 35 TIMES the hourly rate in China. Add to that the fact that Chinese corporations don't have to pay workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, etc. Add to that that there are no regulations regarding workers rights, hazardous waste disposal, safety regulations, etc. and RIGHT THERE is where the extra $700 is coming from.

God's honest truth, I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand...