What has fender done? ? ?

[CrewsControl]

Why not get rid of the Squier brand?

If Squier didn't exist people might start hating Fenders.

 

[smcd]

For some reason, I only know Americans who practice this kind of really weird patriotism. Is "being a loyal American" the only reason you try to by American made products exclusively? Or do you actually think that stuff with "made in USA" on it is automatically better stuff? Have you ever heard a Chinese man say "I only buy Squier 'cause they're made in China, all the American stuff is crap"? No, because most people know that not everything that's made in the USA is automatically fantastic. Some examples: cars, beer, records, and indeed guitars. You may like it or not, but my Danish-built bass and my Japan-built bass will probably outshine many American instruments.

Or am I now a non-loyal Dutchman? Should I only buy real Gouda cheese, Heineken beer and tulips?

I try to buy American when I have a choice. I'll pay more to keep my fellow citizens employed. Perhaps if more Dutch did this the Netherlands would still be the world economic power it was in the 18th century.


And often, though not always, "made in USA" does mean higher quality.

 

[Staccato]

For some reason, I only know Americans who practice this kind of really weird patriotism. Is "being a loyal American" the only reason you try to by American made products exclusively? Or do you actually think that stuff with "made in USA" on it is automatically better stuff? Have you ever heard a Chinese man say "I only buy Squier 'cause they're made in China, all the American stuff is crap"? No, because most people know that not everything that's made in the USA is automatically fantastic. Some examples: cars, beer, records, and indeed guitars. You may like it or not, but my Danish-built bass and my Japan-built bass will probably outshine many American instruments.

Or am I now a non-loyal Dutchman? Should I only buy real Gouda cheese, Heineken beer and tulips?

And now for the Fender thing: I don't think they should have branded the Modern Player series "Fender", 'cause then you get questions like this. They are very similar to the Squier Classic Vibe (I've tried both) and if they had called it the Squier Modern Player series or Classic Vibe Plus or something, nobody would have complained. Also, nobody would have said "hey, these instruments are fantastic, why aren't they called Fender?". Because that's what people don't do. Generally. I bet that if you'd play a Squier CV without a brand name on it, and you wouldn't know the series at all, you'd think it's a Fender.

It's a bit complicated. Americans have seen so many jobs moved overseas, that it's put a bad taste in many mouths. On the one hand, the cost of labor has made this attractive for some corporations. However, it has caused a major shift toward a service-based US economy. This in turn has made us dependent on overseas manufacturing, which has been known for low quality products. It's not all about pride in US products. Part of it is the low quality found in many, many products imported into the US these days.

 

[xfretlessx]

Just curious, have you ever played a well setup MIA fender outside of a store?

yes. several. P's and J's. Im not saying they suck. but they dont feel or sound better than my "crappy" asian made bass.
Some people regard them as the holy grail. I just dont. I dont get the fender worship.

 

[smcd]

I'll never understand why people have this attitude towards China.

Human rights abuse, political oppression, prison (slave) labor, low wages, poor working conditions, no employee rights, no environmental protection, devious trade practices. And that's just off the top of my head. Would you like any more?

 

[xfretlessx]

You are all entitled to your opinions, but the kool aid thing always makes me laugh.

There is a good reason less expensive Asian made instruments cost less to buy- they cost less to make. People want American made, for whatever reason (e.g. patriotism, perceived better quality, nostalgia, not knowing there are alternatives), but they have to pay for it. A portion of the increase might be due to higher margins due to the perceptions of higher quality, real or imagined, but it's not some cult brainwashing or whatever that expression is supposed to mean. It's an insult to people's choice, it's rude, and uncalled for. But respect is not something I've found much in people who claim to know better than anyone else what is right for others.

Carry on, nothing being said here that hasn't been said one million times, and it's just as boring and laughable this time around. I'll continue to enjoy my Fenders, my Japanese copies, my cheap and expensive old American basses, and I will continue to not give a damn what you or anyone else plays if it pleases them. Because everyone has their own reasons for what they do and what they buy, and people like the poster above must feel the need to be superior or they wouldn't care either. Frankly it's extremely childish and has no place here, and only the anonymity of the internet gives people the courage to be so rude and offensive.

kool aid drinking refers to people who buy a fender because its a fender not because it sounds or feels any better. and yes, there are plenty. They dont know really anyhting about them except for the name on the headstock.

no one is being childish here but you for getting all offended over nothing. get off your high horse.

 

[sigmafloyd]

I own a squier vm jazz, an mim jazz and an mia p. I drank the Kool Aid on the whole 'squiers are just as good' thing for a long time. To be fair, they are much much better than they used to be. And, compared to the mia fenders hanging on the wall at guitar center, they feel about the same. That being said, having both at home and setup well, the mia is much nicer, and in my opinion, worth the extra money.

 

[onosson]

Human rights abuse, political oppression, prison (slave) labor, low wages, poor working conditions, no employee rights, no environmental protection, devious trade practices. And that's just off the top of my head. Would you like any more?

See, there are points that people can discuss. Not just "Fender manufacturing in China, I'm disappointed."

 

[smcd]

And once fender finds something that sticks the lulls, sadowskys and laklands of the world copy it

Truth.

 

[xfretlessx]

Like i said...this stuff is all subjective. people like different things. from my experience with them...i dont like them. Squire or fender. I dont care how much people spend on thier stuff. but I dont like when someone rags on something from asia just because. the difference in quality is slim.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

oh wow. the idea of a bass being made in china. my head hurts

you do know theres a reason china is becoming a great economic power right? its the same reason japanese products became big in the 60's and 70's. ok quality and good price.

china is the new japan

 

[One Drop]

kool aid drinking refers to people who buy a fender because its a fender not because it sounds or feels any better. and yes, there are plenty. They dont know really anyhting about them except for the name on the headstock.

no one is being childish here but you for getting all offended over nothing. get off your high horse.

I'm not on any high horse. I just have a modicum of respect for other people's choices and don't presume to know why they make their choices.

One day it's SX, one day it's Squiers, one day it's the new Fenders, one day it's Lakland, etc. etc. etc. All perfectly fine choices or not depending on your budget, your aesthetics, what's available near you, and on and on. I've seen everything come into style and go back out again, in music, in instruments, in clothing, in politics, whatever. Anyone starts spewing koolaid talk and I know they are only making themselves feel better because they know 'the truth'. Human nature, maybe but I still maintain it's rude, and unnecessary. It also shows an extreme lack of imagination, not being able to conceive that anyone else has their own reasons for the choices they make.

Sorry to sound like an ass, but out in the real world every musician I've met has at least some respect for every instrument they pick up, and will give it a chance and try to see what they can do with it, and what inspiration they can get from it. They would never question a person for having chosen the one in their hands, and would be rightly seen as a jerk for calling someone out the way people do here all the time. But if you want to define yourself by your choices, go ahead, it's your choice and that I do respect. Just be cool about it and don't slag off others for their so-called gullibility.

 

[michael_atw]

For some reason, I only know Americans who practice this kind of really weird patriotism. Is "being a loyal American" the only reason you try to by American made products exclusively?

It's not patriotism. It's economics. If Americans don't support American companies, then we circle the drain. If you came over here and saw the stretches of empty, degrading factories you'd have the same opinion too.

 

[michael_atw]

See, there are points that people can discuss. Not just "Fender manufacturing in China, I'm disappointed."

People do try to discuss them.

 

[michael_atw]

I try to buy American when I have a choice. I'll pay more to keep my fellow citizens employed. Perhaps if more Dutch did this the Netherlands would still be the world economic power it was in the 18th century.


And often, though not always, "made in USA" does mean higher quality.

+1

I don't do it to support some manifest destiny or superiority of America, I support American manufacturing so that my children have a future.

 

[JimiLL]

whether MIA, MIM, or MIC, I dont care for any of them. Ive played the 1k-2k range fenders and been totally underwhelmed, and ive played the $199 squire and thought...whats the difference? Dont get me wrong..there are some differences but not near enough to justify price difference. To brag about a MIA fender is almost an insult to American craftsmanship. They really are nothing special IMO. Ive played (and own) $500 asian instruments that feel and sound far superior to any fender Ive played.

Plus they are ugly. But I guess this is all subjective. to each his own. One thing is for sure. Fender will continue to sell a crap load of instruments to the kool aid drinking masses.

Very well said. This echos my experience as well

 

[michael_atw]

Meh. At $1600, it's slightly more than a MIA Fender, and considerably less than Sadowsky, Lull, etc.

I'd put new Rics closer to $2k, and I'd put MIA Fender more closer to about $1200-$1300. MSRP is inflated for Fender, and Rics don't even have an MSRP that I know of.

 

[michael_atw]

I think this is a fair prediction, given the fact that the value/cost of American-made Fenders has continually increased since the very first P bass was made back in 1951.

No, it hasn't. Accounting for inflation, present day Fenders are much cheaper new than they were in 1951. IIRC.

 

[JimiLL]

oh wow. the idea of a bass being made in china. my head hurts

you do know theres a reason china is becoming a great economic power right? its the same reason japanese products became big in the 60's and 70's. ok quality and good price.

china is the new japan

No it goes like:

Japan: Good to excellent quality, fair price
China: Poor quality, (sometimes) low price.

How about all those Ampegs that went to China? I dont remember the prices going down... just profitability going up

 

[smcd]

you do know theres a reason china is becoming a great economic power right? its the same reason japanese products became big in the 60's and 70's. ok quality and good price.

china is the new japan

"ok quality and good price" are not the reasons China is an economic power. Those are the results of a ruthless and aggressive agenda towards business and trade by the PRC. The parallels between today's China and 1980's Japan are very few. Japan's wages were 1/4 of US wages at the time. China's wages are 1/30th of US wages. China is run by a communist government. Unlike Japan, Chinese workers have no rights and can not vote. Japan ran it's industry on efficiency, China runs it's industry by cheap labor.